Eagle92

If your SE was like the one I worked for, if you or your family complain, the DE will get in trouble. Had one friend have his head handed to him because someone thought teh membership goal he was given was not doable. I heard the SE "talking" to him through a closed door and several feet away.

Had another friend new to council and position, who was cleaning up a mess that one of his predecessors caused, but who was working for the council. Working with his Key 3, they noticed some challenges in membership, and one of them wrote a letter of concern, That friend lost about 20-30 unnecessary pounds in the hind quarters when the SE got that letter.

If a knot is retired and replaced with another knot, i.e. Silver Fawn recipients can wear the Silver Beaver regalia, , since they were officially replaced and consolidated, I would not have any qualms.

For example. I got the TC DL knot. I would have no problem wearing a CSDL knot with the TC device, if they ever create one.

I can live with the traditional necker, even if worn under an open collar (West and Bill must be spinning ) but the tar flap necker looks silly IMHO. I WANT MY "BUGS" BACK ON COVERS AGAIN! (yep me shouting). And glad unit numbers are back as well as the WC being worn FINALLY.

Have to agree though, need more focus on promoting Scouting's red headed step child. Kinda sad when I could count the number of Sea Scouts and leadera at the DC parade in 2010 on my fingers and toes, and the float that was suppose to have all of the Scouting's emblems on it was missing the First Class Anchor. And How many folks knew that last year was the Sea Scout Centennial fro the BSA?

Don't know about now, but i do know council will back date records of REGISTERED (emphsasis, not shouting) prior to SCOUTNET. One of my Eagles was some how listed as a First Class Scout when his paperwork for eagle was submitted. between copies of his BSHB and troop copies of the advancement reports, council corrected the records,

Also pre1989 and the removal of time requirements for T-2-1, I had "challenges" with my Eagle as the dates council had contradicted what was in my BSHB. Come to find out the registrar at teh time was putting in the dates she entered the info, not the dates on the reports.

Now as to backdating an unregistered Scout, I do not think it's possible. Although I did hear something about a trial program to "invite a freind to scout camp" a council was doing. Basically the scout would go to camp and do the first year camper program. If he joined after camp, the memerbship would be backdated to when he went to camp, and he would get credit for the stuff done at camp. But that was a week or two backdating, not years.

And I agree very lucky no accident occured.

Now my question: how did he get through the program? Most camps will verify a scout is registered, and if not he would be come registered or sent home.

Question I have is this: how could he slip

1) Again unless things changed Momis correct.

2) If sibs do go to day camp it's usually in a day care format for staff only.

3) Wayne Brock, our current CSE, allowed some councils to pilot programs when he was one of the ACSEs. So this may be from that.

Career Arrow plaque. When I found out how much they were, I lamost had a heart attack. I bet I can find someone to make them in the pack.

Unfortunately we are in a no win situation. If we change the policy, I feel we will lose at least 20 % of our members, if not more. This is based upon the group of councils asking for time to study the question and get input from the members and parents, or as they put it, "the stakeholders." Also don't forget, those pushing for the change will not be happy with local options as "It's a good first step" as one gentleman put it.

And if we keep the current policy, we become a cultural paraiah.

I still remember the first time I read about the New Orleans troop that was started with the express purpose of mollesting kids in the 1970s. Better safe than sorry.

Current rules: all scouts eligible may be elected. To be elected your name must appear on more than half the ballots cast. Each voter may vote for all, some or none of the candidates. He can also decline to turn in a ballot which doesn't count against anyone.

 

Until about '97, scouts could only vote for up to half the slate: 5 or 6 eligible meant no more than three elected. If you had six voters, two eligible and it was a 3-3 tie, I think they went to another round of ballots before decarling no one was elected.

 

Adult rules just changed this year: Scoutmaster may be nominated if he has a year in the position and the camping time. Otherwise: one adult for every three scouts elected (or fraction) may be nominated.

 

Used to be one adult nomination for every 50 scouts in the unit. Troops with 51 or more could send 2 adults, etc.

Actually I know of one troop that used some type of formula to elect everyone into the OA when they had an odd number of scouts eligible under the old method. Don ask me what it was, but I saw it happen when I supervised an election and it blew my mind. Some time after the election, I heard the SM bragging about how he figured out how to get everyone elected and told his troop how to vote..

back to the original post. As 00Eagle pointed out, they recently changed the rules and made it easier for adults to get in.

Like some, I have some concerns about the possible change in policy. The New Orleans troop in the 1970s that was started by homosexuals with the express purpose to molesting youth keeps popping up in my mind.

I always wondered why my mom bugged the heck out of me after every camp out, and the occasional meeting, about possible molestation. It was only when I was in college and doing a report on sexual abuse did I find out about the unit mentioned above. When talking to my mom, she said it was one reason why she didn't push my brothers to find a new troop once they moved. And it was the reason she pestered me.

I have already had one parent state that their husband will be going on every camp out the Cub goes on one he becomes a Scout. And I know a few folks who do not know what they will do: stay or quit.

Marines are not known for tearing up or crying. Especially crusty old retired SgtMajs. who did 3 wars.

But one such Devil Dog I knew would have a hint of a tear in his eyes whenever he saw Cubs doing a flag ceremony no matter how well or poorly, they did.

So yes Scouting still matters.

Now Boy Scouts he would offer positive feedback and work with them, but summer camp staff, you better not screw up!

WHAT? A CQU patch is causing this/ And as others pointed out, why is a committee member getting involved in a SMC?

To quote the 9th Doctor, "RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!"

Sentinel,

When Exploring split into two programs in 1998, I know some career exploration posts that should have remained Explorer posts switch COs from government agencies to 'Friends of..." or XYZ civic group, and become Venturing crews due to homosexual issue. So Beavah has a point.

Oak,

Some COs take it very seriously, while the majority do not. I've heard of some rejecting adults b/c they were not members of the church. I've heard of some reject leaders b/c they had a past criminal record which BSA would allow if the COR approved ( Didin't even get that far, CO said "No" when the app came through for their signature.) I've heard of a CO actually calling or talking to some of the references on the application. I've heard of a CO who did not want an adult as CM b/c they were involved in Scouting as a youth.

JBlake,

Do Not Remind Me! I lost a family because the pack didn't camp enough.

Quaz,

Unfortunately there is a bit of a anti-Cub Scout bias in my neck of the woods. Although most of the really old fogeys know me from my DE and heavy involvement with the OA days, some of the younger ones who have the attitude may not know me since I've been Cubbing for the past 4 years. The Anti- Cub bias is slowly going away, and I praise our current SE for that, but the bias is going away too slowly for me. To quote Inigo Montoya, "I hate waiting."

'Rat,

HA is also what kept me involved as well. I was fortuante in that A) my council did have a HA program at summer camp, B)had BROWNSEA 22, which while not exaclty Philmont, definately tested our Scouting skills.

'Rat and Blake,

That's how it's suppose to be. But unfortunately it is not always the case. When I was a 21 y.o. chapter adviser, I had some "challenges" from some of the older leaders in the district due to my age.

Please keep the comments coming, and if you got any relevent BP or GBB quotes that are relevent, please pass them along. Or anything you have heard during your careers in scouting.

Ok Folks, I am teaching a class on retaining older scouts. I've done a bit of research and will be working on this more, but I would like to here your experiences, ideas to keep them, etc etc. Anything at all to help keep youth in. Below is my outline.

How to Retain Older Scouts Outline

I. "Why is a Blue Loop teachign this class?" Introduction of Myself

II. Why Older Scouts Leave and Possible Solutions

A. NEVER ASK AN ADULT CAN WHAT A SCOUT TELL YOU. How to Find out What's the

problem.

1. SM Conferences

2. Boards of Review

3. PLC meetings

B. Train them. Trust them. LET THEM LEAD! Lack of Ownership/Trust.

1. Start with Experienced Scouts mentoring New Scouts

2. PLC and Patrol Method

3. Keep helpful adults out of the way.

C. OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING. Boredom

1. Let Older Scouts run things

2. Vary program.

3. Look for opportunities for Older Scouts to do things on their own.

4. Network with units/district/council for additional opportunities.

5. Order of the Arrow

6. Sea Scouts and Venturing

D. Fail to Plan, And You Plan To Fail. Why planning is important.

1. Let the scouts come up with the 6 to 12 month calendars.

2. Need to plan around school events: SATs, dances, etc.

3. Look for patterns in school events to aid in planning

E. Lack of Communication/ NEED TO FIND A GOOD QUOTE

1. Best events are worthless if no one knows about them.

2. Patrol phone trees/ Peer contact

3. Troop Newsletter

4. Social media/ Internet communication

F. Personal Life/ NEED ANOTHER GOOD QUOTE

1. Family life: divorce, deaths, health problems

2. School Life

3. Social Life

4. Counseling: Peer counseling and SM conferences

G. Audience Input on things they have been told why Scouts left./ Brainstorming Solutions

III. Resources to Help with Older Scouts

A. Venture Patrol

B. Roundtables

C. Other Units as a better fit

D. NYLT

E. High Adventure

F. OA

(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

BNelon,

Page 7 of the IOLS syllabus:

"Each participant must be able to complete and check each skill form a task list, just like a scout does ( bold in original).... Leaders should encourage this method when instructing in their own units."

Watching,or rather listening, to the link now.

#1 Don't just read a script have actors ACTING.

#2 What this about a scout coming directly from a baseball game not needing a uniform at 3:46? Why don't he just bring the uniform on a hanger and change at the meeting in the bathroom. that's what we did in my troop. Heck one COH I had to make 2 changes in the bathroom: out of coat and tie from school function into uniform before ECOH, then change out of the uniform and back into coat and tie to go to the school function.

HORSEHOCKEY TO THAT ONE.

Being new, outgrown, in the process of buying a uniform, or one I heard, just finished with MANHUNT on a campout and being called over for a "chat" with some committee members, I'm OK without a full uniform.

But coming to a meeting from a game, please.

#3 While I agree that parents should NOT be in on BORs, I am glad that if they insist, they can be allowed to sit in. Don't want to violate YP.

#4 Glad that they say that a BOR can be contingent upon verification of the records in a Scout's handbook.

Overall does a nice job of going over policy.

I do disagree with just making sure signatures have been signed in the book though. I know of one incidence where signatures were forged.

And while I heard this example second hand, after meeting the scout in question I cannot believe he got Eagle. Family ran a troop with gradnpa as SM, Mommy as CC and daddy as an ASM. Scout uses mostly family members as MBCs and for sign offs in the book. Comes time to the Eagle board, they decide there was no way he did all the requirements and followed the process of writing what needed to be done. Family is upset, appeals, and wins. Entire district advancement committee resigns in protest over national's decision.

When I met the scout a few months later, I tried to strike up a conversation about one particular MB he was wearing, and got a deer in the headlights look. When I was asking about others he was wearing, again no response. No way he could have gotten the MBs.

While the MBs and advancement are not certifications in the legal sense, they are in a realistic sense. As mentioned previously mastery of skills was the expectation, and if a scout had First Class, it was expected that he had the knowledge, skills, and abilities (KSAs) to lead a patrol on their own on an overnite expereince. Even the G2A states that the badge being worn should represent what a Scout is capable of doing and not what he has done.

EDITED: Best examples of this are the SCOUTS IN ACTION cartoons in Boys' Life, and Whitey doing the rescue on the patrol hike in FOLLOW ME BOYS.

If a scout had FA MB, Lifesaving MB, etc it was expected that he had the KSA to be able to rescue someone. Heck I remember when ARC and YMCA watered down the Lifeguard certification in the early 1990s, and I would rather trust my life with someone who earned Lifesaving MB under the requirements of the 80s and early 90s than someone I certified as a YMCA Lifeguard as the the MB required more skills and covered more situations than the certification program. Heck I would trust my life with 2 Scouts who FAILED Lifesaving MB because they did not have the upper body strength to get me on the deck than one lifeguard I worked with. Other than getting me out of the pool, they could do all the escapes, releases, and holds with no problem.

And to be honest, I think a FA MB course, if done in a hands on, high expectation environment like my FA MB class, is 100 times better than the current first aid portion of AHA Heartsaver First Aid, CPR, AED course that is mostly watching a video for the first aid stuff.

Now the CPR stuff AHA does in the course is spot on, but the First Aid is boring.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

How about this as a standard:

Would you feel comfortable with the scout using the skills learned in an emergency situation where your life is on the line?

That was the standard for sign off in my old troop. And one of the scouts from my troop saved my life probably when I got hypothermia.

Now a story I heard a part of, but got a fuller story recently. A Scout troop was backpacking on the AT when their SM had a heart attack. The SM had no history of heart disease prior to the trip. Troop stabilized him using basic FA MB skills to stabilize him and transport him to an evac point. Knew the SM had a heart attack at a scout function, didn't realize it was on the AT.

Kinda sad that national doesn't trust the material it uses to teach folks stuff for their program requirements, i.e. Wilderness FA being required from an outside agency,

I will say this about the national advancement folks, THEY DID A GREAT JOB WITH SECOND CLASS 3E AND F REQUIREMENTS! ( shouting for joy with this one.)

See changes here!

http://usscouts.org/advance/changes/advchanges13.asp#scout

Richard,

B/C BSA will more than likely use the stats internally only and not allow volunteers in the field access to them.

Further I can see those stats being used to take more of the OUTING out of ScOUTING. Our society today is to the point that if getting rid of an "unnecesssary" activity or tool will prevent 1 tragic death, then that uneccessary activity needs to get banned.

Best example in the BSA are the restrictions on pioneering projects to 5 feet and under unless inspected by a COPE inspector and everyone having harnesses and brainbuckets.

Best societal example are firearms. Some see no use for them and want them banned and/ or severly limited after last month's tragic event. This despite that there are more car deaths than firearm relat4ed deaths, and there are numerous cases of firearms being used to protect people and prevent mass shootings.

EDITED: cars won't be banned b/c they are needed by the majority of the population.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Way to much paperwork. Can't we use common sense?

My thoughts

First Aid

Wilderness First Aid (a new merit badge in my fantasy world -- similar to the Swimming/Lifesaving "continuum")

Personally I do not know why FA MB cannot have WFA skills. It's been a while since I read the WFA stuff, can't affford the course or instructor cert yet, but a lot of what I read reminded me of my FA MB class way back in the day. Yes we sat some and practiced some skills, then we took some hikes with scenarios thrown in to make us use those skills. Best FA course I ever took, or have taught so far. A heck of a lot better than watching a video for AHA courses.

Swimming

Lifesaving/EPrep/Search and Rescue?

Camping

Cooking

Canoeing/Rowing/Kayaking/Sailing?

Hiking

Backpacking

Orienteering

Pioneering

Wilderness Survival

100% right on.

...and perhaps a couple of nature-oriented MBs (Weather, Nature, etc)

I'm good with.

I do hate to say it, but I think 1, possibly 2 paperwork MBs are needed. I think A) combine the three Citizenships into one MB as the kids these days are not learning about our government in the schools and B)Possibly keep Personal Management, but gear it more towards saving for trips, gear etc. Again kids are not getting these concepts in the schools like they use to.