DugNevius

the purpose is to best prepare young men for the world, including teaching them responsability. What lessons would be taught if scouts were allowed to skip out of responsabilities because they dont feel like doing them?

Work needs to get done, tired or not tired. If, at a job we adults decided we werent going to do it, wouldnt we lose our jobs?

thats very true. Adults tend to forget, that many boys are keen observers. They know when the older buys are slacking off on their duties, when they arent helpful or orginized. In a "free" election, they will chose a qualified scout more often then not.

ha, well let it also be known that not all scouters are conservative.

ok, here is another word: Character. Eagle isnt something a scout achieves, its something he becomes. A scout becomes an eagle not by completing requirements like knots and first aid, or canoeing merit badge or basketry, and not by putting together an eagle project. A scout becomes an Eagle through the journey that encompassed all those things. The growing process that results because of all these parts builds character, the easier the journey, the less character is developed. Can anyone honestly say that a boy who is 13 had had the same amount of experiences as he would have when he is 1

Does rank best signify character? Is a scout who is star rank necessarily better suited for SPL then a 1st class scout? Just because a scout is star does that mean hes ready to take on the role of SPL? Just a few questions. Personally, its more about character then rank and we never had a required rank for SPL. That said we have never had an SPL that wasnt Star or life before being elected SPL, and i couldnt see any 1st class boy take it on. There werer plenty star and life scouts that were not ready as well.(This message has been edited by DugNevius)

Im with sturg on this one. The mentality of an eagle scout is much more important then having all the boxes checked on paperwork.

Im not really for it, but not because of the potential for sex, but rather there are few programs where boys can be boys. I would be happy to see programs by th egirlscouts that were as well constructed as the BSA.

we have sort of made that part of our troop historian position, photographing all troop events and putting together a "yearbook" along with having pics for the troop website.

You will be fine with 2 10X10 green nylon tarps for sleeping and another one for equipment. We did a week long trip in Maine just using tarps as shelters. Set them up side by side and low to the ground- the middle poles only 3-4 feet up and the sides just a foot or less up from the ground. We would refer to these shelters as "roman slave ships" with all the scouts packed in a long row of 18. Like this: _____________________ [______I________I_____]

haha yeah, and like pornography, dancing causes crime.

Ah, Texas and its wondeful laws... where "sexy" cheerleading is against the law, because it causes pregnancy.

"There is no automatic removal of leaders who cuss, use pornography, lie, cheat or even steal." again, how would the BSA know if an adult leader owns porn or curses?

what would you propse they do? Should the BSA be allowed to have surprise home morality insepctions, seeking out "contraband" deemed immoral, such as playboy, Maxim, and other "immoral" possesions? If a scoutmaster is found with any photogrpahs of scantaly clad women he will no longer be allowed to participate in scouting?

I dont see a problem with it at apporpriate times. At summer camp or a camping trip, if its free time, when the work is done its fine with me. Our troop loves Risk, the game of world conquest.

what is surprising? That, with a expanded subject group you got a variety of answers concerning morality that are not consistent with the answers you got from members of your own conservative church group? Thats like going to a republican Rally to poll public opinion about an upcomming election and being amazed that they are all against abortion and Afirmative Action. As for porn IN scouts, thats a totally sperate issue. Im sure most all of us would agree that veiwing the Pamela Anderson/Tommy Lee video as a scout activity would be out of line...

anyone not being paid can work it. Just dont have old ladies digging trenches with shovels and picks.

the question becomes at what point do we as Adult leaders stop leading by example and it is exceptable? We are supposed to live by the scout law and oath if we expect our scouts to do so. Of course, physically strong does not have to mean olympic athlete. What becomes acceptable violations of leading by example? Obesity? Smoking? Drinking? irresponsibility? Disorderly?

...the beach, Lands End and Macy's cataloges, Marvel Comic books, NY Fashion week, reality television, Olympic Beach volleyball...

Ha, first, Tortdog, i shall address the porn points. Your statistics do not at all prove that Porn cause crime. They simply point out that sex criminals like porn. It does not show how many millions of americans watch or read porn and do not commit any crime. That is like saying knives make people murder because of all the people who used knives to kill someone used a knife. It can not be proven that porn turns good men into sex offenders and of all the studies of sex offenders none have stated that it was porn or that porn led up to the crime. Rather, studies can not prove that porn caus

where/what is boundry waters?

Barry, i think you are off on what i have been saying. I have not tried to minimalize God at all simply injecting objectivity and logic into a debate where most of one side has been built on subjective opinion and faith. I said before, faith sure is a slippery way to make an argument because its unsubstantiated. Faith is subjective. It relies totally on interpretation. It evolves drasticly over time. Its the same as the Life On Other Worlds debate. Some say it exists, some dont. Morality, as shown in this very debate is not universal in many cases. Tortdog veiws homosexuality as immoral,

Tort your examples are not legit. sex between two consentual adult males is not the same as incestuous rape or beastiality, because children and animals are not capable to consent to sexual activity. Incest can lead to handicaped offspring, and this is why its is wrong. However, two adult men have sex, no one is at all effected. There can be no handicapped offspring and Mr Tortdog is never effected. Suicide by canniblism is hardly the same as gay sex. So your arguement is as follows: Homosexuality is wrong. It is wrong because it will teach kids its ok. Sort of circular

In what way does what a homosexual couple does in the privacy of their bedroom brind down society, and in what way does what a homosexual couple does in the privacy of their own bedroom any different then what a heterosexual couple does in the privacy of their own bedroom in terms of directly harming children? Sorry to say but children are just as effected by witnessing strait sex as they are gay sex at a young age. The same as seeing strait porn and gay porn. So, if homosexuality was accepted, how are children bieng harmed? ...more so then they are today? Since pornographic material

yes but the difference is that we as adult leaders are to guide and help build boys into young men and leaders of charactor. The youth are dependant upon us. When heterosexual male X judges homosexual male Z, mr X has no place or reason to judge mr Z at all, because mr z does not effect mr X at all. Mr X has no right to judge, or to place himself at a higher position. Homosexuality doesnt effect nonhomosexuals at all. It has the same effect as a person being hispanic does. Or jewish. Or short. Or Blonde. Nothing. If being homosexual is such a sin, then when Mr Z dies and i