DugNevius

Backpacker, I'm behind your comments 100%. Every scout needs to have the opportunity to be an Eagle Scout, with the guidance and program to get there. But not every scout is an eagle scout. Like you, Backpacker, I have seen a trend of "wishy washy" eagle projects. In our troop we have made it a habit to push for a much higher amount of man-hours completed then the troops around us, and have been told by council that our Eagle BOR are more difficult then those other troops. But it all matters on what the goal of the troop is. Some troops focus on fun and games and scout skills others stress leadership above all else. There is no focus that is better then others, because there is no troop for everyone, and yet for each person there is a troop. Our belief is to give our scouts the most challenging program we can, with the idea that the scouts that graduate from it will be better for it. This is done by maximizing the amount of responsibility and experience each scout gets and pushing them as far as they can go. Trips like Philmont are very helpful in this, and our vehicle for our goal is High Adventure trips as often as possible and backpacking weekends 7-8 times a year. As someone said in my other post about our Philmont training, "It's like basic training for the military." In answer to a question, why dont we have 13-14 year old eagles, with the amount of training each scout goes through in preparation for places like the Maine AT or Philmont his advancement slows but his leadership and experience grows. Also, our leadership selection is different then most troops, from what I have learned interacting with scoutmasters across the globe on web forums such as this, and really pushes scouts to step up with added responsibilities. Lastly, we are not of the mind that a 14 year old IS quite ready for eagle. He simply lacks the experience. For us. Our system is not for everyone and thats fine, especially in our area that provides 4 troops in a small area, there is a troop that provides other needs, program and goals.

going out to Philmont, trek #32, i hope.

we used propane back in the early 90s and then switched to white gas. Correct me if i am wrong, but isnt white gas better economicly?

Thats our goal.

eagledad- Yes there are other ways to build leadership and teamwork outside of patrol cooking. They all can be done while patrol cooking as well. Nothing is lost by cooking in patrols instead of eating at a mess hall and more is gained. The more experience our boys get the better in the long run.

also, you may also look to companies such as Home Depot, Lowes or contractors to donate paint and supplies. In any case, there shouldnt be any problem with having the orginization supplying things like paint, nails and such.

Good points, but i think the cons go beyond that. By eliminating patrol cooking in summer camp you are essentially cutting the leadership eperience of the elected leaders by at least and maybe more then half. Even if the rest of the year, every month the patrols cook by themselves, having three times a day for one or two weeks strait is around 40 meals which doubles the experience. Through patrol cooking the patrol leader and the scouts that he leads have much more responsibility on their shoulders, from wood collecting and cutting, fire building, food pickup and preperation, the actual cooking and then the cleanup offers orginizational challanges that expand each leaders experience and capabilities. The majority of the patrol leader's work at summer camp has to do with the patrol cooking. The more chances to learn the better, even if it means learning by tial and error. Time has never factored into our experience, our troop and other troops that patrol cook earn as much merit badges and participate in as many activities. As well, issues like trash are small in comparison to what is lost when eating in a mess hall.

Dont worry John. Its mainly because of the reaction some other scoutmasters have had on other boards because of our program. i find it amazing as well as amusing how threatened some feel by us, and how quicky they can turn a discussion and debate into mudslinging and attacks. Not everyone sees eye to eye, no troop is right for everyone, but i enjoy interesting conversation and deliberation in effort to understand, learn and teach as well as just have fun. So about us. We have been around since 1937, in suburb NJ and have produced 79 eagle scouts. There are 4 other local troops in our area, each having a differnt program, focus and goal. Our program is a very challanging one with an emphisis on leadership and self reliance and the vehicle through which we achieve that is challanging backpacking and wilderness trips. We incorporate a high adventure trip every 2-3 years, going to Philmont as well as hiking the AT in Maine up to Baxter State park. We are going to Philmont this summer for the 6th time. We are not by the book. We go with what has worked for 68 years and with what works. This seems to bother a LOT of scoutmasters but i feel it creates for an interesting dialogue at the least.

im ready for the fireworks... Our troop does not push the 1st class by the first year. In fact, or scouts dont get 1st class in the first year. At least 2 years. Also, we never have an eagle at 14. Its not done because it cant be done and shouldnt be done. As far as sports go, in the 17 years ive been involved in scouting, from crossing over as a weablo till now, every singe eagle scout we have had has been on at least one, and in some cases 3 vasity high school sports- wrestling, hockey, soccor, swimming and lacross were some. Haha, ok, bring it on! Im ready.

Its good to see so many troops trying the patrol method. I say this because from what i have observed many many troops are opting for both mess hall summer camps and a group cooking- and camping- method. Our troop for many years would go to a camp in northern New York that was basiclly all patrol cooking. In the 90's there was a shift towards a mess hall and by the 1994 our troop was the only troop cooking by patrol and therefore wasnt getting the proper attention when it came to the supply of food. The camp was sold in 1995. We had to find someple else. Doing so, locating a camp that had patrol cooking within our range was not easy. We did. A camp that is split into two camps, one that has mess hall cooking and one that has patrol cooking. Of course the mess hall camp was huge, and a few times our troop was the only troop in attendance for the patrol cooking camp. But, then, we like that sometimes. I defy ANY scoutmaster to prove me wrong, that mess hall summer camp is not a HUGE mistake. In response to the propsed question in our troop Patrols ALWAYS cook together and adults and scoutmasters very rarely EVER cook unless a treat.

This summer my troop will be heading out to Philmont (our fith visit) and have had a very structured training program to prepare. Its about the same as our other philmont or extended backpacking treks. I was wondering if any other troops had training programs for philmont and what theirs entailed. Well... Heres what we did and are doing. Getting accepted to go to Philmont for the summer of 2005 back in january of 2004: Req'd hike in March of the PA-Nj ATof 8 miles and 5 miles in 2 days Crew leaders elected in April Req'd hike in May of 4 miles friday afternoon, 8 miles saturday, 4 miles sunday Crews picked in May Req'd hike in June of 9 miles saturday 9 miles sunday by crew PT meeting June PT meeting Sept Req'd Crew hike march 9 miles sat and 9 miles sunday 2 PTs in march 2 PTs in april 3 PTs in May Req'd hike in may of the NY AT of 4 miles friday, 9 miles sat, 13 miles sun 1 PT in June 2 hikes by crew in June of 20-22 miles in 2 days each. Philmont ******** PTs (Physical Training) 6:30 am-8:45 am 15 minutes of stretching warm up mile stair running indian sprints suicide sprints sit ups-pushups 45mins to hour game like Ultimate Frisbee

Hello to all. My name is Dug and I am an Eagle scout and assistant scoutmaster of my troop in NJ. My troop is vastly different then most i have encountered, and from the responses ive recieved on other scouting message boards, very controversal and even threatening, but i see this as a chance to discuss, debate and learn.