DugNevius

i cant understand why reading would be banned. or even that scouts must wear ponchos instead of rain gear.(This message has been edited by DugNevius)

i would have him go to his patrol leader.

i pack everything in ziplock plastic bags and also use a pack cover for double protection. then i just hang it on a branch. no way any of that is getting wet.

Is suspending him really going to change his attitude? From my experience, those scouts that are constant discipline issues dont ever change their attitude until THEY want to. Sometimes it never happens and eventualy the scout is either asked to leave or, more often they just weed themselves out. One scout our SM asked to leave ended up going in and out of prison for petty crimes. Another went to culinary school and got married. Sometimes, troubled scouts just wake up. We had one boy who was a constant issue. At summer camp he was physically hurting his bunkmate. At meetings he was const

our aspls also hold other positions, Quartermaster, Scribe, Historian and Librarian and make up the Staff patrol, each with specified duties in regards to their position on top of assisting the SPL in any form he may require. The wuarermaster is in charge of all out troop camping equipment. He has his own room in our charter school, which he maintains. He orginizes, prepares, fixes and purchases ourc amping gear. Our Scribe is the webmaster of our troop website and the editor of our monthly paper. Our Librbarian also has his own room, where he keeps track of meritbage and other books, maps, an

There is an insurance (I think)ad that takes place in Africa, where these guys are filming lions and one of them puts on a male lion head and they film him walking up to them as if it was some scientific study to see the reactions ofthe other real lions. I find it hysterical.

like i said Dan, the leatherman Micra is all you will ever need on the trail http://www.leatherman.com/products/tools/micra/default.asp

haha i know its been done. Im not really hung up on a pocketknife must be carried or can be left out, however, i think having buddy in any outdoor activity like canoeing, backpacking, mountian climbing, etc is an absolute must and essential to following the BSA motto of being prepared. Not having one is a sure fire invitation for a problem.

well i gues if you get injured while hiking solo you can always use the pocket knife to amputate so you can attempt to crawl to saftey.

i understand that the buddy system does not prevent any and all problems, but i think its pretty clear that the buddy system prevents enough problems to warrent it downright essential and part of being prepared. I also understand that many items of equipment come in small/light sizes, for instance the knife that I and my crew leaders are carrying in Philmont is the Leatherman Micra at 3 ounces, however 3 of these ands a regular leatherman are all we will need.

well SP, one could ask why you would not follow the buddy system while hiking? Hikers should never split up and hike alone. Being prepared, you would have a buddy at all times. I agree that flashlights are something for each hiker, even though they only need to be used in the tent, but the need for pocket knives in Philmont are very limited, basically cutting up food and rope. 3 knives per crew is more then enough.

"In another topic someone mentioned that everyone in a group going for an extended backpacking trip would have an item so there was no need for him to bring along one. While there are group supplies and personal supplies, I was suprised at what I felt was a personal item would be left behind." Let me back up Dan here. On many high adventure trips, Philmont included the crew becomes like one entity. This means that not every member of the crew needs to have all the same items (for example 10 people carrying 10 pocket knives, 10 tubes of toothpaste, 10 bottles of sunscrean, etc etc) Instead

what do you want the parents for,exactly?

This past weekend we had some training trips for our summer high adventure treks. One group was the 12 and under crowd thats going out on a 12 day Southwest tour. We happened to be camping in the same site, although each for the 3 crews took a different route to get there. Around dinner time i wandered over to see how the dinner was going for the little guys and was suprised to see a pretty extravagant meal for a backpacking trip and found it odd that the crew leader was barely eating because he said it tasted gross. This was odd because he was supposed to be the one who planned and carried ou

an additional thing an adult patrol can serve would be to keep the dads busy and away from their sons, allowing the scouts to turn to the PL and learn to rely on him, also removing the temptation for adults to do the scouts jobs.

High Adventure trip of 7 days or more.

The dad has good reason to be upset. Where was the teamwork and leadership here? It was absent. If there is only so much food everyone gets less but everyone eats. This was poor planning bythe PL and the PL didnt step up and look out for his scouts. The SM and ASMs need to have a talk with the PL and make sure he undserstands how and where he dropped the ball and to make sure it doesnt happen again.

im curious on how/why this scout is "weak on leadership" and also what relation Rour is, SM, parent or spiteful peer.

You are right, SP, i did not add that we also recommend the Thunderlight parka pants and that the scouts bring them in place of regular pants (On hikes) to have a nifty 2-in-1 and save space and weight. Campmor also has cheaper parkas and pants around the $15 range, and for some reason the website lists the prices of the Thunderlights $15 more then what is found in the store. The reason i have them grab the parkas is the durability of the product, $10 or less ponchos dont last as long, where as my Parka has been going strong for 9 years and two high adventure trips (Philmont 98) and will be go

well, 2 reasons Beav. First, the age of boys we are talking about are the very growth ages of boys: 12-18. Im almost 27. My scoutmaster, who took over in 1991 was 22 and in 10 years: 3 high adventure trips, increased the size of the troop by 3 times, and 3 high adventure trips. Secondly, I am merely continuing the program and aim in which my scoutmaster did before me for 10 years and what his did for 37, changing very little. We are having loads of success. I have found no trouble in expecting them to meet the standards achieved by the many Eagles in our troops history, not being complacent

we would only cancel a trip it the weather posed a safety probelm. Tarps always, first thing up, last thing down. http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=12168&memberId=12500226 We recommend to our boys to avoid ponchos. The rain gear i have our boys grab is the Campmor Thunderlight parka. http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=3192609&memberId=12500226

Beaver, I never said scouts will be perfect the minute they get into a POR. That is why an Adult, secificly an ASM should work as an advisor to the scouts in a POR particularly to help develop the leaders. However, if you set a standard you will find that the boys will work to achieve it. Also, By Leading By Example the leaders show the younger scouts these skills are important and they KNOW that they need to be on time for trips, orginized for meetings, accountable for their actions. 6 times a year we meet with our boys in POR and have open ended evaluations to talk about the things they are

Barry, you seem to think that having Eagles be respectful, orginized, on time and the rest are both unecessary and takes away from the uniqueness of the individual, and that if every scout had all these characteristics they would all be clones. I dont see how you can think this way. Being orginized, focused, motivated doesnt take away from anything. Some scouts take MORE initiative then others. They just need to take intiative. They dont have to be anal, but they need to have some order. They dont need to be robotic, but they need to be driven. By installing these qualities it does not by

1)The camping/high adventure program 2)The Eagle program 3)The facilities used by the troop 4)The size (Not too big, not too small) 5)The history 6)The patrol selection process 7)The Adult leadership

As a matter of fact, My SM was named Doug. Pure coincidence. It seems to me that you may feel that our expectations are too harsh, but i dont feel they are unrealistic at all. I never knew of any parent that believed the standards in which their son was pressed to meet for Eagle were to hard at all and I dont hear that from the parents today. Eagle isnt just the next rank after life, the 7th rank. Its something more then that, it represents the very pinnacle of the youth in the BSA program, the best of the best. While Boy Scouts prepares boy to succeed in life, Eagle scouts are buil