DugNevius

Yes.

Well clearly the lack of experienced leadership and older scouts was a large part of the problem here. This seems to be an example against patrols by age and rank.

"Rape - it may well be an act of violence. Amd who knows what inspires pedophiles and other perverts. But let's not play games here. It's well known amongst law enforcement, and it should be common knowledge by now - these idiots usually have closets (or computers) loaded with pornography." yes but nude photography can not be proven to cause any violence at all. There is no scientific evidence that seeing nude women CAUSE men to become violent, but rather violent men have it already inherent in them. The FBI agrees that nude images dont cause sex crimes. This is a false cause argument her

Von Dutch i used to always wear a Miami Hurricanes hat. I wasnt a fan of the team at all. When i was 10 i told a relative wanted a Florida Gators hat because i liked alligators. They made a mistake and got me Miami. Up until 11th grade i always had a miami hurricanes hat, one after another. I also like scullies, or beanies or gobalines... how ever yu call a knit wool hat.

"Do you believe your own logic? do you believe that Homosexuality is not really all that immoral? Do you think that choices can only be free when they are unpredictable?" Do i believe it? It is logic, therefore mathmatics so its not really up to belief. If you add 2+2 it will always equal 4. If God is Perfect then there is no free will. If there is free will then there is no perfect God. Do i know which exists, a perfect God or free will? No. I dont possess perfect knowledge. I lean towards the Free Will paradigm. Do i think homosexuality is immoral, no. I dont buy into any bl

This is all on topic. "Im failing to see how knowing someones choice makes it any less of a choice for them. If God knows what I will choose, by all means the adventure of the choice is still there for me. Im still responsible for making the choice, and I certainly still have to go through much mental deliberation to make some of them. I think we need to point out the difference between knowledge of someones choice and control of it." If God KNOWS what yu will do, can you do something different and he still be right? No. That means that there was no alternative. Because: -If

Is a rapist immoral? yes. But there is no evidence that nude photographs cause people to rape, but in fact that man in your example had pre-existing issues and immoralities that would cause him to rape and there is nothing to say that going to the beach wouldnt cause the same reaction, or walking in the park.

"Assuming that if one person has free will... if you know how your wife will react to something does that take away from the freedom of choice she exercises in reacting that way?" If you possess perfect knoweldge like some people claim God to have, then you know exactly what your wife will chose. If you are going to Mc Donalds and yu have Perfect knowledge and know she will chose the Big Mac, she will never prove you wrong by getting McNuggets, she will always pick Big Mac if you know that she will, no matter the time of day or dimension she is in. She has no choice, and as a rule the abs

haha Well, he could just have it because of the articles. I dont find having a magazine like playboy to be immorral. First of all it is legal and no law is broken. Second of all it does not cause harm to anyone. That is the line between a Playboy, Penthouse or even a Hustler- and Nambla or Child porn. Child porn is against the law, the children photographed are not of the age of consent and are being violated, and Nambla is an orginization that promotes gay pedophilia which is also against the law.(This message has been edited by DugNevius)

a ha, ScoutNerd, but yu realize that both yur examples are flawed. "Keeping this in mind God lets us have free will, lets us make our own choices. Just because He knows the outcome doesn't make it any less of an adventure/challenge/choice for us." He knows the outcome. He is not wrong. So you will not do something other then the exact choice he has already forseen. It does not make it less of an adventure, but it DOES make it not a choice. You will always do exactly what he has foreseen. " He created us. He knows us better than our parents/spouse/kids do, better than we do. (You

Ok, Ed and ScoutNerd. Now let us apply a little Left Brain Logic to the table. First, some definitions. Free will: The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action: championed freedom of will against a doctrine of predetermination. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will. Perfect: Lacking nothing essential to the whole; complete of its nature or kind. Being without defect or blemish: a perfect specimen. I think its safe to assume we can agree on these

Hmm... Busy ladies response in the other post about Homosexuality being a sin not to condone, and a few other members who are using the Duty to God and Morally bankrupt lifestyle have led me the think a Logical Experiment is needed. You all believe in God. After all a scout is reverant. But answer me this, first, Ed, Busylady, BW and anyone else: Is God all Knowing or is he flawed? Do you believe in Free Will?

Well Eamonn, how would you propose to fix those issues? And please be more specific then just saying "training", around here that seems to be the easy answer out of a lot of issues.

Why? What are they doing instead? What do your camperees have to offer?

um... No response?

Eamon- "I feel that most of the Troops in the District I serve do not live up to the promise made in the Boy Scout Handbook." How so? Personally, i think some variety is good. Have a core and build upon it. Not every boy10-18 is the same and having different programs that all teach the same morals and skills allows for more appeal throughout the community. Some troops love to attend Camperees, Jamberees and Winter Klondikes. Our troop would rather do more hard core backpacking, play more sports and be a little bit more competitive then some troops. Another troop in our area never

sorry UG, but you jumped the gun. Eagledad- "It doesn't matter what religian one is, the BSA wants role models that represent those values." Yes, but the whole point of this topic was the hypothetical situation where the BSA had changed its veiws in regards to allowing Atheism and homosexuality not conflict with BSA principals, therefore leaving it up to each scouter to make a decision:"Do i stay or do i go?" Therefore the arguement against Atheists can not be made with a premise against that claims its a violation of policy. This leaves the reasoning being that atheists will try to

No, publicity is always a good thing. Especially since the only national publicity is when guys like Douglas Smith gets into the news. What is publicised would need to be thought out first. Interesting musing to have while cutting wood. When im using a chainsaw im usually thinking "Dont cut off a leg, that will totally cramp your dancing."(This message has been edited by DugNevius)

Interesting idea, but in a country of... how many millions? is it all that feasable to have a program that is totally universal? There may be a level of continuity to achieve for but total collective of all things seems to be a pipedream. After all, every school doesnt have the same cirriculum, every state doesnt have the same laws, every family doesnt have the same principals and every child doesnt have the same needs, etc etc... As we all know, you cant please anyone and people will all disagree (This website's Issues and Politics not evidence of that?) and so by and large there needs to be

I must agree you did the right thing. for us in similar circumstances the reprimand was spread evenly throughout the scouts involved. When an unnamed scout vandleized a tent all the scouts inside the tent had to share the cost of replacment. If 10 boys were in the same room, 10 share responsability, because as scouts and (im assuming) scouts in leadership positions it is their duty to lead and act as scouts and part of that includes a level of governing each other, being trustworth and obedient, and showing respect. If the one or two scouts dont step forward the unit takes the heat. That

Having an opinion that is in conflict with the opinion of Bob White is not irreverent.(This message has been edited by DugNevius)

" just can't even imagine what the motivation would be to spend money to convert people toward No god. Getting to sleep in on Sundays? Scripture calls out Christains and LDS to seek new followers. Passionate followers will of course spend their money to use the most modern methods they can afford to follow Gods word." " What exactly would they offer as benefits that would persuade a believer to change? Holidays? Retirement benefits? Healthcare?, A big Club house to meet in? Family outings?, Catching songs? Those are just a few things that faith and religion offer. What have you got?"

Bob, you have it backwards. TV programs dont buy commercials, advertisers pay for time on TV and radio. The LDS paid for their time. My point is Atheists arent buying airtime to convert anyone. To me it seems a bit egocentric for adult leaders to try to convert scout into any faith, be it christianity, islam, judism or atheism. Religious beliefs should be left up to the individual, the parents of the child and religious leader such as Priest, Rabbi or other, and since we scoutmasters are not the parents and religious leaders of the troop it is not our place to preach faiths at all.

Ed, i think you are underestimating the zeal of the Religious Right here. BettyStevens right here on this website is a good example of this. There is a large movement in our society in an effort to promote censorship of non-christian things on the radio, TV and other medias as well as a certain level of accepted racism against Islamic and imigarnt people. As far as it about ratings, commericals are paid for. The LDS commercials on TV and ratio are not about ratings but advertising a belief system in an effort to convert. Atheists dont advertise on TV or Radio or magazines. Athiests dont k

Ljnrsu- im actually heading to that campmor store this afternoon to take the new scout families on a shopping spree for their evolution into scouting. You must all realize though, that the temp ratings for the bags are for when you are in just your knickers and outside. Wearing a pair of thermol underwear adds a lot more warmth and in essence drops the temp rating down 5-10 degrees, the body warmth of tent-mates and a sleeping pad isulation all also allow lower temperatures then the rating of the bag. Therefore, in NJ a 30 degree bag is more then enough for camping all year long unless y