dsteele

Thank you for the compliments. I was simply trying to help by cutting to the chase.

Actually, John, I get lost quite often, relatively speaking. It's not that I don't know where I want to end up, it's that I'm always looking for a different way to get there!

I once aimed for downtown Chicago and ended up in Munster, IN before I could turn around. I missed by a whole state! The key is to learn along the way and still be able to manage to laugh.

As to Cub Scout leadership -- I say keep on trying.

Unc.

Are either one of you using the Program Helps den meeting plans? They're found in your Scouting Magazine or purchased (for about $5.00 at your Scout Shop.)

If you're using them, great. If not, get them. They'll take a lot of the pain out of planning.

If you're using them, but you're doing it all, I have a suggestion for you that at first will take a bit of time, but will get easier.

Divide the meeting portions among the parents. You run the den meeting, but Mrs. Smith is in charge of the craft. The program helps will supply the directions and materials needed. Start "farming out" parts of the meeting and rotate those parts around. Eventually, parents will learn that it's not tough to pitch in. Explain to them that they're in charge of that portion of the meeting and that it won't get done if they're not there. They'll find a way.

Unc.

I'm glad you're familiar with the path to alternate merit badges.

Let me preface my comments by saying that a relative of mine is learning disabled. He and his parents were told early on by educators that the boy would never get through the 8th grade.

Fortunately for him, his parents didn't buy it and neither did he. He's getting his Associates Degree this spring.

I'm not sure I'd let the boy off the hook on Lifesavging. The example given was that he wouldn't be able to do a cross chest carry. Why not teach him a modified method? Perhaps using both arms and kicking really, really hard. What do we want him to do if he's ever in a position where he needs to do a rescue or someone will die? I've met some dwarfs and the ones I've met were pretty strong. In some cases very strong.

It's been a long time since I looked at the requirements for Camping merit badge, but I bet he could earn it if he put his mind to it. I'd recommend encouragement, cajoling, and anything else you would do to help any other Scout.

I also think that working him is an excellent idea for the diversity item on your ticket. By doing so, I think you'll both increase the understanding of each other.

Unc.

I saw it live as well. That moment, to me, transcended politics.

I was deeply touched. To me it was no different than the mother of a fallen Union Soldier hugging a freed slave. We didn't fight the civil war to end slavery, but it's the best thing to come out of a horrible war.

Unc.

Whew! Thanks for clearing that up. Due to past experience, I thought we had some overzealous Cubmaster out there who wanted to do a board of review for the Arrow of Light.

I think your version of a board is a fantastic idea.

Unc.

I'm sorry to not answer your direct question. What exactly is an Arrow of Light Board?

I hope it's not a Board of Review for the Arrow of Light. That's a function of Boy Scout advancement.

Please clarify.

Unc.

I don't want to restart an old much-worn debate, but I have to take exception to the statement:

"Having the world's youngest eagle is a goal/bragging right for a parent - it does not serve the child's best interest. I have never seen a good young eagle."

This is no reflection on the poster. I take exception only with the part of "I have never seen a good young eagle." I've seen several good young eagles.

I used to see one when I looked in the mirror. The face has changed somewhat since then, but the Scout Oath and Law the guy in the mirror was taught, learned and lives have not.

Don't worry . . . you didn't offend me, but I couldn't let that one stand without comment.

Besides, this thread is about Webelos to Boy Scout. So I'll throw my opinion into the mix:

I think that as long as a boy meets the joining requirements to join a troop and has the desire to do so, he should be allowed.

Don't worry about how soon this may make it possible for him to reach high ranks in the troop. That's up to him. Some boys, regardless of when they enter the troop will not be excited by advancement and simply won't advance much. Others will go at it like a duck to water and there's nothing you can do to stop them.

Once they enter the troop, age is not an issue in terms of advancement. Either they meet the requirements or they do not.

Unc.

Eamonn:

Let's talk on the phone about this.

You've done nothing wrong. I applaud you for wanting to help fix it.

I've been in a similar situation. What you need to understand is that once you pass the baton of leadership, it's up to those who follow to either make a change or continue. Often this works out well. Sometimes it doesn't.

It's too bad that it hasn't worked out well in your case, but you don't get to blame yourself for problems that came along the path once you stepped off.

Unc.

How about this one:

Scene opens on a little old lady looking forlorn. She says, "I wonder how I'm going to get across . . ."

Enter a Boy Scout in full uniform. He offers to help and she accepts.

The Boy Scout clips on to a zip line, picks up the little old lady and carries her over a deep ravine. He lands her safely on the other side.

She thanks him, looks across and says, "Oh dear. I think I left my purse . . ."

Across the bottom of the screen, the text reads . . ."A Scout is Helpful."

Does anyone other than me remember this commercial? It aired in several major markets. It aired in the late ninetys and several major names also did Public Service announcements shortly thereafter.

If you're interested, those may be found on national's web site at this address:

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc&c=pr

I agree that word of mouth is the most effective way. I think magazine, television and other ads can help (or at least be cool for us to see) but I think you can buy a whale of a lot of flyers and put on boy talks for more bang for the buck than a TV commercial can buy you.

What do you think BEST BUY or any other company would pay for the ability to go directly into the schools and have a representative talk to the potential customers vs. using television, magazines and newspaper inserts?

Unc.

I think ASM's within the troop need to realize that the relationship with their son depends on both father and son.

I'm going back a bit to my memories of being a youth in the troop when my Dad was a very active assistant scoutmaster. On outings, he acted toward me like any other adult. I acted toward him in the same manner. I was not allowed to call him Dad on the campout or outing or at the troop meetings for that matter. I called him Mr. . . . just like everyone else did. If I got in trouble (which did happen if you know me) I was treated like any other Scout.

This continued when he became Scoutmaster. I had no more or less priviledge or hardship because of his position. It took both of us to pull it off.

It was not harshness, just a realization that I needed my space and he needed his . . . but that the troop needed leadership.

I hope this helps more than confuses. I'll take questions.

Unc.

Actually, the Guide to Safe Scouting says this about Judo:

"Judo, Tai Chi, and Aikido

If Scouts and Venturers practice defensive judo, Tai Chi, or aikido, it should be done with proper mats and with qualified instructors related to YMCAs, colleges, or athletic clubs whose objectives and coaching methods are compatible with the principles of the Boy Scouts of America."

The Guide is pretty program specific. I interpret this passage to mean that these activities are limited to Boy Scouts and Venturers.

With Day Camp being a district/council event, I think it's important to set the example. As the others have advised, I would stick to a demonstration at the most.

As a word of caution, I once saw a martial arts demonstration done at a Cub Scout Day camp during the period after lunch. The demo was great . . . but trying to get 100 Cub Scouts to stop kicking each other all afternoon was a bit of a bear. Some of the parents weren't amused.

For further clarification (I think) the Guide to Safe Scouting says this in bold print:

"Boxing, karate, and related martial artsexcept judo, aikido, and Tai Chiare not authorized activities."

The bold print means it is policy. That part was listed in the restricted activities section of the Guide to Safe Scouting.

The Guide can be found online at the BSA website -- wwww.scouting.org It's under Scoutmaster and adult leader; publications, Guide to Safe Scouting. Two versions are available: a searchable online version and a downloadable pdf version. A hard copy may also be purchased through your local Scout Shop.

Unc.

In the olden days, hand-me-downs were called sharing. Not a bad concept.

Unc.

Semper had an excellent response. In most councils, there is money in a fund that is expressly devoted to helping Scouts get to go camping. Generally, the amount is not for the full fee for summer camp or day camp, but the Scout and his family are expected to contribute at least part.

The applications, from what I've seen, are handled confidentially and internally. There's no reason a boy shouldn't be able to attend a long term camp. If money is what's stopping someone, then they should apply for a campership.

Unc.

Welcome 625!

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but my advice to you is to get to training and also attend your council's POW WOW if it's upcoming.

The training will help you understand how to make the meetings fun, what a CC is, and what other resources are available to help your pack. You'll want to take New Leader Essentials and Cub Scout Leader Specific training. They don't cost much and don't take more than a day to complete. It's well worth the time.

If you need training information, call your council service center and ask. If they don't have the information, ask for the name and phone number of your district's training chairman/woman -- a volunteer who will be happy to help you out.

Best of luck!

Unc.

Hot diggety! We got another one!

Welcome aboard. Welcome to Scouting. Based on your search and find that led you to us, I'm willing to bet that you're going to be an outstanding leader.

These forums can give you access to a lot of knowledgable people, but don't forget that your own best resources are local -- district volunteers, roundtables, the council office, etc.

Have fun in Scouting.

Unc.

I've managed to remain silent for seven pages, but now I feel the desire to weigh in and offer an opion.

I think a Satanist would be excluded if discovered. Satanism is incompatible, IMHO with the values Scouting teaches.

A satanist would not be willing to do duty to God. A satanist does his duty to Satan.

It's an interesting intellectual argument, but I don't think anyone would seriously disagree that Satanism is against the core beliefs of the BSA.

Slightly different question -- I have a problem with the term "Religious Discrimination" that's getting tossed about. Atheism means they do believe there is and Deity to believe in. It may be a strong belief, but it is not a religion.

The BSA has a Declaration of Religious Principle. It has been quoted here enough that I won't bother to re-iterate it.

Saying that the BSA has a policy of Religious Discrimination because atheists aren't allowed as members is like saying that states have a "Vehicular discrimination" against people who don't have cars since those people without cars can't ride their bicycles on the interstate!

Dang! Those interstates are built and maintained with government funds. The government of every state and the feds are discriminating against pedestrians and cyclists! NOW we have something to be upset about! Or do we?

Unc.

Purce:

Can you give us a source on the purple shoulder loops. My problem is this: The Boy Scouts of America has an international division and there are some international volunteers, but they are members of the Boy Scouts of America.

I've never seen nor heard of purple shoulder loops before and I'm curious.

Unc.

My hat still goes off for a CR named Dale M. Dale was one of the few chartered organization representatives I ever knew who owns a uniform.

Dale rode a motorcycle and was involved in a very bad accident. He lost both of his legs as a result. When he came out of his coma, one of the unit commissioners who served his units was at his bedside. He opened his eyes and said, "I'm sorry I missed the committee meeting."

The don't get more dedicated than that. Nor should they.

Hats off, Dale, wherever you are.

Unc.

Dancin' if you haven't met this dude, you really should.

UG

Thank you Eamonn for saving me the trouble of typing so many words. You said exactly what I was going to say.

Unc.

I've read this thread a couple of times and the same thought has come to me both times.

I see too much thinking like adults and not enough thinking like (or caring for) the feelings of a kid.

I can only speak for myself at that age. However, if my parents had bought me a pair of look-alike pants for my Cub Scout uniform, I would have been hurt and angry.

We didn't have much money when I was a kid. I had to buy my own first pair of Levi jeans when I turned 18 -- so I finally had jeans that faded. Previous to that, my mother always bought these "tough skin" jeans from Sears. Remember those? I'm dating myself to the 1970's now, but I hated those things. I once took a pair of hounds tooth jeans out to the driveway and put a brick in the legs. Then I rubbed until the fabric wore away. Who knew those were guaranteed?

Anyway, when it came time for little Unc to join the Cub Scouts, I wanted to be 100% official. The Cub Scout pants were blue, and so were a lot of other pants, but the buttons on them had the cub scout logo and a Boy Scout logo on the lable inside.

My Dad probably choked at the cost of those uniform pants, but he bought them for me because it was important to me. More important than any toy I ever wanted (I didn't always get those) and more important than many other things.

I can understand the Walmart pant argument from an adult point of view. I can't understand it from a kid's point of view who wants to be 100% Cub Scout and not a look-alike who's half dressed.

I don't believe uniform should be a fighting matter and I agree that economic factors come into play . . . but I think every kid deserves a good uniform.

I'm actually a big fan of making every kid earn his way to a uniform -- if he saves the money to buy it, whether he's a Tiger or an Eagle Scout, it's going to mean more to him than if it were given freely.

Just a few thoughts and remembrances.

Unc.

Eamonn, my dear friend:

What, specifically, do you propose?

Unc.

By the following quote, I diagnose the problem you're having:

"Rarely if ever does anyone phone me to say how great things are going? In fact by the time my phone rings, things are normally in a sad state and these sad states are due to adults who can't play together or people who have not followed the guidelines when they play the game.

Eamonn."

Don't focus on the complaints and problems. They are mostly distractions.

Follow the advice of the other posters. Go back to the joy your roots in the program brought you.

Look for the good in the youth. You didn't become a leader because you wanted to solve adult problems. They exist. Make no mistake. You can't run away from them, but remember that the problems of the district need to be solved so that the boys -- who are the reason we exist -- can receive the best program possible.

This applies to any leader in the BSA. Do what you need to do, but remember that if it doesn't make the program better for our youth, it isn't worth doing.

Unc.

I'm going to ignore the political stuff in this thread. I see merit in both arguements, but I only speak for myself.

I want to help in some way. The media is stressing cash donations, but our cash is tight right now and even a small donation would cause us difficulty.

BUT -- I heard on ABC News on the radio last evening that any UPS store will accept used cameras, computer components, or other electronic devices. They'll give them to a group which will auction them off on Ebay and donate the proceeds to the disaster effort.

The other gift I can give them, and have been, is prayer. Everyone can afford prayers.

Unc.

Steve Young is an Eagle Scout.

Unc.

I simply shared my views. I thank you for sharing yours. Understanding each other is important.

I understand that people are passionate about their views and I apologize if mine inticed people to excitement.

I simply presented my personal opinion of the establishment clause. I have no intention of debating my views, but am interested in seeing the view of others.

Gsmom, I thank you for sharing your interpretation. I also appreciate your comment on the Anglican Church as a state religion. It was informative. I happen to think what the founding fathers had in mind was to avoid a state sponsored religion and nothing more.

I understand that others believe it means much more than that and that's okay by me.

So don't attack me for interpreting it my way. That is my right, according to the constitution.

Unc.