dsteele

Scouts who receive Boy's Life stay in the program longer than Scouts who do not receive the magazine. I don't have statistics to prove it, but it makes sense to me? Why? Because a kid who gets Boy's Life magazine, even if he doesn't open the cover, gets a monthly reminder that he's a Scout. Even if your pack isn't meeting in the summer, or he hasn't been to a pack meeting for a while, something about getting mail in his own name helps keep them in Scouting.

If he does read it, and the parents encourage him to read it (which really isn't all that tough to do) he'll perhaps start a new hobby, get a modeling tip, learn a Bible lesson from the Old Testament, or just get a laugh at old PeeWee.

If his paren'ts are smart, they'll look for the page that says which article helps with which requirement and use it to help their son advance.

From the financial side, what does the pack intend to do with the $800 bucks they'll save? Will it increase retention and advancement with the same bang for the buck? Seems to me that would be a tough case to make. The pack is paying $9.00 a year, which is half of the subcription rate of $18.00. Sounds like bang for the buck to me.

The best example I've ever seen of a visual to demonstrate the sheer financial value of Boy's Life was this:

Someone took a comic book (I'm not sure what the current price of a comic book is, but it's more than Boy's Life issue per issue) and taped each page together end to end. He rolled out the comic book and the length was impressive.

Then he did the same thing with a copy of Boy's Life. Boy's Life was roughly three times longer, half the price, and actually had pictures and articles that will help the child develop in a fun and simple format.

Good luck. I hope this helps.

Unc.

I thank Tysim for the above post. While I don't agree with everything, I found it to be well thought out. He presented his arguments well.

There's too much stuff in the post for me to attempt to address everything, but I'd like to address this portion:

"Turn the situation around a bit.

Let's say the Federal Court House in DC decided that they were going to promote Pagan Holidays (And being a Pagan myself I can say these things without it being Pagan Bashing :-P)

Suddenly you drive by and see a scene of a nude woman being chased by a Satyr, or worse yet, having sex with said Satyr. (for those interested, cf Pan and Fertility Festival)

How offended would you be?

Would you then allow your daughter to go on a field trip to that same court?"

If the United States were mostly Pagan as the above premise suggests and I was a Christian man who saw the picture and other marks like it on Federal Buildings . . .

I would not be offended at all. I would try to see it as a work of art and continue to do my Christian duty and raise my children with our own religious tradition.

Would I allow my daughter on a field trip to that court? Yes. I would want her to learn to accept the fact that our religiion is in the minority and expect her to learn to deal with it.

As long as I'm snowed in, I'll take a crack at TySim's example of praying in the nude. First of all, if the majority of the country was in the habit of praying naked in school, the 14 year old boys would probably be very used to it and it wouldn't have the same effect. If we were all naked all the time, the ones in clothing would be sexy. If my kid, who prays with his clothes on, was living in a culture that prayed in the buff -- again, he would have to suck it up and get used to it while mainting his own beliefs.

I take a somewhat different view of the establisment clause. I can only judge what it means as a private citizen. I think it purely and simply means that the U.S. Government can not declare a state religion (like the Anglican Church in England of old) and force its citizens to become members.

10 Commandments in a court house, in this citizen's opinion does not establish a religion. It may endorse it, but it does nothing to legislate it.

Others obviously disagree, including many people who are more wise and wear robes to work.

Unc.

Since when do I have a fan club? I can't even get the dog to like me.

Unc.

Adapted? Interesting.

Unc.

5 words:

I stand by my friend, Eamonn.

I'm not sure Eamonn is uglier than someone who doesnt post here anymore I haven't met Eamonn face-to-face yet. But I can assure you they are two different people.

Unc. Of course, of the three of us, I'm the best looking

UG (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Eamonn:

Exactly what I'm trying to say. If the individual shows interest in the job, then by all means let them say yes. If they aren't interested in the job, re-group and ask them for something else. Help find a spot where they're comfortable and can expect to be successful.

To the others -- you can't just get someone to say "yes" to anything and walk away from it yourself. When I get a new Cubmaster or other position, that individual does not leave the room without a time and date set (before they start meeting with the kids) to get them either fast start trained and their first meeting with the kids planned. If I'm not available for the planning session or first meeting, I ask the District Commissioner, Cub Scout Chairman, or another experienced volunteer to walk them through it. They are also given the date, time and place of the next New Leader Essentials and are offered a ride to it by a member of the commissioner staff.

I agree. The follow up has to be there, or you're just whistling in the wind.

Unc.

Ed:

OGE is absolutely correct on this one. I thought I would answer before Merlyn did. I'm pretty sure he knows that as well.

If Merlyn didn't know that, he might as well. Of course, if he didn't know that, then you and I aren't the only "idiots" in his mind.

Unc.

Fuzzy:

Thank you for the praise, but it's more experience than talent. I'd like to offer a few tips I've learned along the way.

1. Watch how the people fill out the applications and how they behave when you explain the program.

The ones who are paying rapt attention to what the program is . . . i.e, you have their full attention when explaining Tigers, Wolves, etc. and what the camping opporutnities are. Those are the type of people who are naturally inclined to run dens and packs.

The ones who are more concerned with getting the details of the application correct, i.e. what's the pack number? Do I need a second address, I don't know when my son got his measle shot, etc. are more inclined to be administrators. Make those the committee members. The first one to wonder about the checking account or other major admin detail becomes the committee chairman.

2. Describe the job, but not the title until the job is explained. The title in Scouting, to the new person, can sound terribly intimidating. Committee Chairman sounds much more different than chair the committee that oversees the "how" side of Scouting.

I stand up and say, "We need a person who can coordinate the "behind the scenes" work of others to make sure the program the boys want is delivered. This involves things like finding parents to keep records of badges and pick them up, someone to keep meeting notes, and people to drive to outings." Then I say, "put committee chairman in the box" to the person who has agreed that they can do the job.

Quite often, from what I've seen, someone in a uniform says, "We need a Committee Chairman." Start with the description, and not the title. Most people when they hear, "We need a committee chairman," think to themselves (they don't ask outloud) "What's a Committee Chairman.

Do not ever under-sell. However, simplify. If someone told me that I had to create a chemical reaction involving sugars and starches, throw in a complex procedure, and heat it to 375 degrees before separating it into batches and bring it to the pack meeting next Tuesday, I'd be intimidated and probably wouldn't follow the formula and nothing would happen.

But if someone asked me to bake cookies to bring to the pack meeting, or buy them, the kids would get their cookies.

It's the same end result. I was describing baking cookies in a rather scientific and confusing manner.

Sometimes in Scouting, we use too many technical terms. What do you want the people to do and who seems inclined to do it? Focus on the job and not the title. The title can come later.

Unc.

My dream job is to be a novelist and actually publish the series I began in college.

I've got a 55,000 word fantasy novel in my closet that I wrote in college on an old IBM Selectric typewriter that I want to polish and the outlines for a few more novels that lie un-witten in the box.

I'll start that as a second career when I retire in 18 years.

Unc.

Hey -- Michener started late, why can't I?

UG

My apologies if it sounded like I was talking about the "one hour a week joke." I was not.

I don't believe in under-selling the job. Of course I expect Cubmasters to attend Roundtable (or send a representative,) get trained, etc. I just don't use the term Cubmaster at first. I describe the job as "the main contact between the pack and the supporting volunteers." This comes after I tell the group about training, Program Helps, Roundtable, etc. I also tell them that the BSA has plans for meetings and will teach them to use them.

I've never in my life uttered the phrase "one hour a week."

All I was trying to say is that Cubmaster sounds a lot more intimidating than main contact.

My point is that you need to match the interest of the people to the job that needs to be done. That is the tricky part.

Unc.

There are shadows here? I'm disturbed.

I can't believe I'm posting on a haunted forum.

Unc.

I actually don't believe in bashing the ACLU, but I will bash the more "enthusiastic" members who seem to push their own agenda at every opportunity.

I think the principle behind the ACLU stands up to what every conservative and liberal in America want . . . our rights. No more and no less.

Like Republican vs. Democrat and Democrat vs. Republican, I think the goals are very, very similar (if not the same,) but the methodology and priority of which right is most important vary greatly. The other thing that varies greatly is "who does what to whom and when?"

If I were the ACLU director in Richmond and saw Boy Scouts selling popcorn outside of my office, in all sincerity, I probably would have chuckled and inwardly thanked them for defending there first amendment rights and believed they weren't going to sell any popcorn.

I would have had to swallow hard to congratulate them for selling so much after a speech by a radio man, and would have wondered whether I was doing the right thing.

I happen to believe that the ACLU has outlived it's purpose. I'm not going to change the mind of the die-hard and they aren't going to change mine.

I'm glad the ACLU fights for free speech. That is a good thing, but most people can do that on their own. I don't think the big issues the ACLU should be facing is atheists or homosexuals in the BSA (which has morphed into ending government sponsorship of the BSA.)

I don't see the ACLU fighting for mutual benefits for homosexuals or marriage for homosexual couples. Shouldn't that be a bigger fight if they're so liberal?

I'm against homosexual marriage, btw, but the ACLU that I have seen, has issued no stance on the issue.

Perhaps they have and I have just not noticed.

Why has the ACLU done nothing to defend the rights of smokers. I happen to believe smoking is an expression of free speech, but they're not knocking on my door as town after town votes in "no public smoking" ordinances or ordinances banning smoking in bars. Are they waiting for me to ask? If so, I'll ring a doorbell tomorrow.

Now . . . I'm done bashing the ACLU, if that's even what I've been doing.

I think there's an inordinate amount of publicity regarding the BSA and the ACLU. The BSA is a big boy on the block of non-profits. We've enjoyed the benefits for decades. The ACLU, in all fairness, is an up-and-comer and decided to take on the big boys.

Now we have news stories.

Unc.

They're not movies, but I remember seeing two episodes of TV shows from beyond my time (and probably yours) on Nick at Night in the late 1980's.

One was an episode of "Car 54" where a troop led the cops to the bank robbers and helped capture them. Super episode.

Another was one on "Make Room for Daddy" with the late Danny Thomas. He was the father of a Scout. The troop lost their Scoutmaster and he competed with the guy who played Mr. Mooney on the Lucy Show for the role of Scoutmaster. That was the only show I've ever seen that had a DE play a role in it.

They're old and black and white. I wonder if anyone has a copy?

Unc.

I've recruited a lot of people over the years in my role as an active (not old guy) unit commissioner.

It's not that tough to get someone to say "yes" to a job.

Getting them to do it is another matter, but I'll get to that in a moment or three.

Getting the yes is as simple as making sure you match interest, ability, and desire into one person in one role.

Some are more comfortable on the administrative side of unit Scouting (commitee members) and some are more comfortable on the program side of unit scouting (Cubmasters, Den Leaders, Assistant Scoutmasters, etc.)

Some are more comfortable and able as support -- popcorn, Blue and Gold, etc.

Where we fall down as recruiters is in identifying who wants to do what to whom and then asking them to do so.

This has to be targetted specifically to individuals.

For example, I'm not a camping guy. I hate it in fact. I can do it, but it's not my choice of where to spend my time. But . . . if you want someone to raise money, recruit parents or arrange drivers for your outing . . . I can and will do that.

My wife will do similar logistical stuff, but would rather have red ants run over her chomping than to lead a den.

Other people out there would love to work with their son and 6 of his buddies in a den meeting weekly than write one set of committee meeting minutes. That's a den leader.

It's a whole lot easier to ask people what they want to do (give them a menu of jobs with simple descriptions) than to stand at a meeting and say, "We need leaders," and expect to get any results.

In my opinion (I know we're supposed to use anacronyms ) most parents want to help out where they perceive that they can. Our job as recruiters is to match the talents and the desires of the parents to the needs of the unit.

Some parents won't take titles like "Assistant Cubmaster." But they'll agree to take the job of being the "backup" for the Cubmaster if she/he can't make the meeting. Hmmm ... sounds like that should lead to a futurer Cubmaster. Isn't that what an Assistant Cubmaster is? Let them handle a few things and pretty soon you have interest matched with ability and desire.

Bada-bing, bada-boom.

Unc.

I'm glad I hit the back button rather than posting my submission at about 6:00 last evening (which would be just beore this morning which is 32 minutes or so old . . . )

Merlyn presents the name of Robert Sherman earlier on this thread. However, he's holding some information back.

A search on the Daily Herald newspaper (suburban Chicago's premier newspaper) for Robert Sherman should reveal some things.

I heard/read that he went to jail for assaulting his son to "put the fear of god in him."

Interesting. Not exactly role model stuff.

Unc.

Fscouter:

I appreciate the compliment, but have to tell you that the name Unc and the word perfect very rarely collide in the same sentence!

Hat's off to the movie Tin Cup for the theft of the punch line I just stole.

Unc.

Try this link:

http://www.danbeard.org/finance/finance_unit.php

It will lead you to a capture of the BSA publication regarding unit budgets. That document is very accurate and I used to follow it myself when I was working closely with the committee as a Scoutmaster.

Or, call the Council Service Center and ask for a copy of the unit budget plan worksheet. You can also (in most councils) find it in your recharter packet. It's generally a yellow sheet that is largely ignored by units.

The form even predicts how much to build into the budget for advancements and awards for each boy. My experience is that it is almost eerily (to the dime) accurate.

Did you know that each boy should only pay for his registration and boy's life exactly one time? That would be the day he joins.

Check it out, please.

Unc.

Not to answer for "Always ready," but I can sum up the why in a sentence.

To make the unit what it's supposed to be . . . part of the chartered organization's organization.

Unc.

Guess I've got to be a little contrarian here.

Velcro will work, but IMHO, it's not worth the trouble.

Here are my thoughts . . .

The Cub Scouts aren't going to look at, remember, read, or recognize the position patch on your sleeve. They will know who's in charge (at the Boy's and Girl's Club) because you'll tell them. And because you'll be in charge.

In your current pack, the boy's don't really care what wording the blue patch on your sleeve says you are, they care about what you're doing.

The parents in the pack don't (mostly) know how to read your uniform, so they really dont' care what patch, if any is there.

I know you're concerned about uniforms, Cajun, but I also have a feeling from reading many of your posts that if you had the money to buy a second uniform, it would be for a boy . . . and not yourself. I love that.

My recommendation is to pay 2 bucks for some velcro from the local fabric store and switch unit numbers when needed.

The more obscure option is found in small print in the insignia guide . . . wear the uniform of your paid, registered position in Scouting. Assuming the B&G Cubmaster is a multiple registration (you only pay for BSA registration, not for each position) you don't really need to worry about switching position patches between units.

Unit numbers may be a different story, but only because the boys may care about that. Probably not, but it's possible.

Unc.

I spun this off only because I like to examine questions/problems/opportunities from more than one angle.

What do you do to engage your chartered organization?

For example, when I became a Scoutmaster, I was the first one in years who was actually a member of the church. The relationship between the troop and the church was pretty weak.

One of the first things we did was to get a new Chartered Organization Rep who was an Eagle Scout and a member of the Board of Christian Education, which oversaw all youth programs involved in that church.

Through his help, we had the church start sending it's bulletins to every member of the church. BTW -- none of the boys in the troop were members of the church congregation, but the CR and I were able to convince the Board of Ed. that we were part of the church organization because the church owns the troop.

When we did our service project for the church (our Charter Partner) as you're supposed to do, I made sure one of the parents did a write up on the project and sent it in to the church newsletter editor.

We attended Scout Sunday services in uniform and assisted with candles, prayers, etc. One year, the pastor even used parts of a sermon someone dug up from somewhere about Scouting.

It came to be a much closer tie bit by bit. Actually, when the troop suddenly gained 18 new Scouts and needed camp stoves, propane lanterns, etc (it had just doubled in size,) the Board of Christian Education donated $800 to pay for them.

What are your thoughts?

Unc.

Although I have no gut myself, let's all sing the Scoutmaster Version of "Head, shoulders, knees and toes," in co-miseration.

It goes like this:

"Head,

Shoulders,

belly,

belt.

Head,

shoulders,

belly,

belt . . . etc.

Unc.

In answer to this inquiry:

"I was inquiring about it because my son wanted to know why his Tae-kwon-do black belt doesn't earn him a belt loop."

Tell your son that I think it's because the belt loop won't fit on teh black belt! hee-hee

Unc.

I don't need any more shirts

I've got plenty of socks.

I have all the electronics I want

and the DVD's that I need.

What I really want for Christmas

will come from all the world . . .

Peace on the earth

and to all a good night!

Bless you all.

I apologize for the lousy attempt at poetry, but I really do have enough stuff.

Unc.

You and I will never agree Merlyn.

One should never call another names, like stupid, on these boards.

I won't call you a name.

I'm done baiting you.

Good luck in the afterlife, pal.

Unc.

Sir:

I firmly believe that atheists have the same civil rights I have.

I also believe that you and your cause have come into conflict and have fought to take away some of my civil rights.

I speak particularly of the right of free speech. I also know that you will disagree with me on this one.

When an athiest yells at a neighbor for putting up Christmas lights on his home alone with a statue of the Virgin Mary in his lawn because the atheist feels discriminated against by the man's statue and lights on his own property, the atheist has crossed the line.

I've seen it happen and heard it happen.

Unc.

PS -- it would be nice to see an apology for calling me stupid. I'm a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them.

UG