dsteele

Congrats Hops! You're the only person who's posted so far that actually furthered the cause of the BSA through positive public relations. At least in my eyes.

He did what I meant when I started with "ah, PR the magic bullet." I apologize to Hops. I did not mean to derail your thread. I meant to amplify it.

To me the best public relations the BSA can possibly have is the human interaction between known, visible Scouts, and the general public.

Case in point -- the reputation the public expects and the actions they expect of an Eagle Scout were NOT built on television commercials, newspaper articles about projects, photos from courts of honor. The reputation expected of an Eagle Scout was built by Eagle Scouts . . . live, human, in person and in action, over the past 90 years.

That's public relations. Relations with the public.

Just one man's thoughts on a Sunday afternoon.

Unc.

Not trying to start a uniform debate here.

I wonder how many more Cub Scouts would wear the official pants if the pants were built like tuxedo pants. Most of the men here will know what I'm taking about.

Tuxedo pants have a waist band with a buckle on each side. The waist can have a range of 2 inches or so just by sliding the buckle.

There's a lot of fabric at the end of the Cub Scout pant. Don't cut it off -- move the hem up. Then, if the pants were built like tuxedo pants, it would be easy to lenghten the pant and increase the waist size with the growth of the kid.

Hmmm. Two or three years worth of use vs. 6 months.

Unc

I bought my first jac-shirt (a boy's large) at Philmont when I was 14 years old.

Yes, they are (or at least were) available in boys sizes. However, few people are willing to pay the money for them, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were discontinued.

I guess the answer to the real question, from this humble guy is, I don't know.

Unc.

No . . . not a baker tent.

A baker had twin poles in front, four walls and three sloping walls toward the side and back with canvas sides about 2 feet up that could be rolled for ventilation. The baker tent with its twin zippers could also form a dining fly in front.

The tent described in the origional quesion is older than even my favorite -- the Voyageur tent.

I'll have to research the name of it, but I know the tent.

Unc.

Parts of the point I was trying to make are touched upon here.

Please let me ask the following question, hoping only to illuminate my point . . .

Which would stick out in your mind the most that Scouting is alive and well in your community if you were not involved in Scouting?

A: You read about Scouting for Food in the paper in a nice large article that drew your attention.

b: You see a photo in the paper of a Scout burdened with large bags of food destined for the hungry in your community.

c: You hear a ring at the doorbell. A Scout in uniform asks if you will fill his bag with canned goods to give to the local food pantry.

d: A television reporter covering the local Scouting for Food drive on the news at noon on Saturday.

e: The Chief Scout Executive on Good Morning America talking about an anonymous 1,000,000 Boy Scouts collecting 43 million cans of food for local hungry.

I'll go with C. See it, participate in it, buy into it.

A, B, D, and E, are merely numbers, images, or heresay.

Unc.

Ahh, PR -- the magic bullet.

It's about as real as Ponce DeLeon's Fountain of Youth or the lost City of Gold. Positive Public Relations can fix any ill.

But what is positive public relations?

It seems to be something done by someone else, anyone else, that gets us (BSA members) presented in a positive light by the media.

I think that's only half the idea.

I think the better half of the idea is letting the people (public) see us in our uniforms out where they can see us.

Public relations on a grass-roots level is tough when we're an organziation that meets in church basements and camps in the woods. Who is going to see us in those places?

I think our best public relations come when we're out where people can see us -- good turns, Eagle Scout projects, popcorn sales, etc.

I don't know about you, but I rarely look at newspaper photographs unless they're related to the story. I often miss Eagle Scout announcements.

However, one place where we can all make a difference, particularly in weekly papers, is letters to the editor. Many people read those and many papers have a requirement to publish them as long as you list your name and home-town.

Write a letter.

Unc.

Eamonn:

Thank you for sharing so deeply. I've only talked to HWMBO (who her must be obeyed) on the phone a few time, but it is clear that she is a woman who must not only be obeyed, but honored. Her beauty and tenacity shine through even over fiber optic cable.

I'm glad you realize how truly lucky you are! Please share that with Mrs. Eamonn (I'll not post her first name.)

You're also very fortunate to be blessed with a son.

How you've come to such a realization without your wife (as does mine) having 2 black belts in different martial arts and working on a third is beyond me , but then again, I'm not a terribly bright man.

Unc.

FScouter:

I think it would be wonderful if needed to have two Chartered organizatins care enough about a unit to worry about the questions you posted:

"Interesting. Who would have thunk it? I wonder how they select a COR? Or would they have two? Must both organizations approve the adult leaders? How many votes do they get at the annual meeting?"

the information was as much a surprise to me as it was to anyone else. I agree with Eamonn that it is pretty rare that a unit would need two chartered organizations.

However, my theory is that if there were two, there would still only be one CR -- I've been told that Scoutnet will only accept one. It will be up to the chartered organizations as to who approves the leaders and who signs the forms.

I would think that as in the example provided by anarchist, where one organization has bought into the charter partner concept fully and the other has bought into providing a meeting place and needed help (correct me if I'm wrong anarchist,) that there will be no question as to who approves the leaders.

This is what I consider a reality answer vs. hypothetical. Someone asked me what the difference was last month and I didn't have a good answer. I would consider this a good answer.

Unc.

Bob -- I can buy into that!

If it were in my power, I'd change the title of this thread to "We all need to get lives!"

But I can't. Compromise seems to make the most sense.

Unc.

Kristi:

When it comes to recruiting, I believe in do it where you can!

Carpe Deim (seize the day!)

Unc.

Eamonn:

Now that I know the nature of the game, I'll join in the fun.

I think my most important lesson from Scouting is that it is possible to enjoy some form of fellowship with just about everyone.

I guess I'm an affiliatvie sort of fellow.

Unc.

I'll join you Hops. I have great admiration for veterans.

One of my fellow unit commissioners lives across the street from me.

He is a veteran of WWII and of Korea. He's a quiet, humble man. When he says something will be done or that he will do something, you can take it to the bank. I believe because of his experience in the military, he will not let any hurdle stop him and he will not say "yes" when he means "no."

I have found that to be a trait of every veteran I've ever met.

Unc.

If I were this kid's district advancement chairman I would not sign to approve his project. Not without an exclamation point and underlining my signature

Fantastic!

Just one man's opinion.

Unc.

Here I go again, looking at the world a little differently.

The single most important thing I've learned is:

A Scout IS

Trustworthy

Loyal

Helpful

Friendly

Courteous

Kind

Obedient

Cheerful

Thrifty

Brave

Clean

Of course I still stumble on a point or two here and there, but it is and will remain the most important thing I've learned so far.

If the question is actually meant to point to a specific skill I learned through Scouting, well . . . that's a different question than the one asked.

Unc.

Reverent

PackCommitteeChair:

I hope I'm wrong about my hypothesis. I'd be glad to be wrong in that case.

I just re-read your post about how the boy may have been involved with the Tiger Leaders as part of a baseball last spring and still think the issue may be closely related.

If he was involved in the spring as a result of a little league baseball team and the Tiger Leaders were coaches . . . and the kid said he wanted to be a Tiger Cub, I can see the coach saying, "you can join next year."

This would lead the boy and the parent to believe (correctly in that case) that the kid could be in Tiger Cubs.

However, if the comment was made and Mom didn't mention holding him back . . . the coaches would have been incorrect, although not of any fault of their own.

I don't blame your tiger leaders for wanting to stay out of it. At best they were mis-lead.

Unc.

At first I was going to avoid Bob White's question. I felt it was intended to spark debate.

I don't feel like a debate. I feel like using my personal freedom to express an opinion. If someone has a contrary opinion, feel free to post it. It won't bother me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if I don't happen to agree with it (I'd say, "peace, dude!" at this point, but that isn't my style.)

I don't think political peace or harmony between parties in the United States is sustainable. It appeared briefly after 9/11 and for a while during WWII and Korea, but it's the exception and not the rule.

I do think that peace between individuals is entirely possible. My mother and step-father are died-in-the-wool liberals and I have big-time problems with their political views. They have similar problems with mine and my brother's.

What do we do when we get together? We shoot pool and have a good time. Late in the evening, after several drinks (we don't get together often) one of us screws up and brings up politics. Generally there is an argument with anger on both sides.

However, it's quickly forgotten and there are hugs and kisses and much love felt when we part.

I don't see eye-to-eye politically with many of my friends and loved ones. I can't help it that they're all wet !

Or am I all wet?

Does it really matter.

A friend is a friend. A loved one is a loved one. Who cares if you agree on everything?

Issue 1 in Ohio last Tuesday was against gay marriage or any recognized facsimile. I have a sneaking suspicion that my wife voted against it. I don't know for sure and haven't asked. That's her business, not mine.

Yes, Bob, we can all get along. Not on every front, but we can get along if we work at it a bit.

As an illustration, I'd wager a lot that there are posters on these forums that if we both had the same punch-card ballots, chad-free and held them together in the light, there would not be a single ray of light passing through the two ballots.

But I bet we'd still get along over a cup of coffee or teaching a new scout patrol how to build a fire.

Unc.

Ahh . . . I think I can see the mother's side now. I was wondering how all this came about and based on the quote from PackCommittee Chair, I have a theory of what's going on here:

"We live in a small town and the Tiger Leaders volunteered last Spring. I believe this boy may have been associated with the Tiger Leaders and/or future Tigers through his participation on a baseball team. Last Spring the Tiger leader may not have been aware of the intentions of the parent to hold him back and switch schools."

Specifically, "Last Spring the Tiger leader may not have been aware of the intentions of the parent to hold him back and switch schools."

My theory:

This one is no one's fault.

Many councils, recruit in the spring. I know we do it in our district. A kindergartner is considered, by those councils, to be in first grade as soon as he finishes kindergarten.

Many councils recruit Tiger Cubs in the Kindergarten in the late spring and register them in June.

So . . . if the parent didn't mention (or hadn't decided yet) to register the boy as a Tiger Cub, it could have been done. This would assume that the boy is a first grader effective June 1.

Now the problem comes when the boy is held back from first grade (a truly rare occurrence) and is still a kindergartner in the fall.

The dilema is this . . . who has to tell the kid he has to wait a year? He was welcomed with open arms in the spring. If he's showing up on the pack's roster from the council, he is registered. Technically, since he's still a kindergartner and only 6 years old, there's no way he qualifies based on the letter of the law.

This is a conundrum. I'm glad I don't have to make the decision, and I feel badly for both sides because I can see both sides of the issue.

Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance. Let your local council decide and I'll hope for the best for the boy.

Unc.

Zippie:

Thank YOU for not giving up and going the extra mile to help save your pack.

Like so many other volunteer operated things, once the train falls of the tracks, it is a labor of love to get it back on-line. Once it is on-line, things run pretty smoothly.

Keep doing what you're doing and best of luck!

Unc.

I have such a tie and still wear it occaissionally. If I didn't, I'd cheerfully send it to you.

Take a look at the thread about the 1970's wool uniform. A search in the forums of wool uniform should do the trick. Someone posted a very helpful link to a trader by the name of Mitch Reis. Mitch has a large stock of older uniform parts.

He's also very responsive. In fact, I'm making a mental note to send him the stuff I promised. I'm lousy at out-going mail. I don't know why.

Unc.

The above post is correct.

The reference is the Uniform and Insignia Guide available at your Scout Shop for about 5 bucks.

Forget about putting troop numerals, council strips, lodge flaps, etc. if you want to be correct in uniforming.

One back patch is allowed, centered up and down as described by Owl62.

Owl62

The only green wool jack-shirts I've seen were a professional recognition from Boy's Life and were only presented for a year or two some 17 years ago. I'm not familiar with any BSA jak-shirt in the last 16 years in any color other than red.

Hope this helps.

Unc.

Something about this sentence(s) tickled me inside. I'm not making fun of the poster, far from it, but it does show that he's a republican just as I am.

"I was very lucky at the entrance from where Bush came out I got to shake his hand which was very big for me at such a young age. I'd compare to my Eagle Scout ceremony or my first deer kill."

I've killed deer and shaken the hands of two Presidents of the USA. One of those Presidents even wrote to me in a hand-written letter in response to one I sent him.

It never occurred to me to equate it with shooting my first deer. But, in reflection . . . why not?

As far as candidates for 2008 -- Yes, I think Hillary Clinton will run. I think she's highly intelligent and that's about the nicest thing I can say about her, so I'll shut up.

I also think that her running for President would be the best thing the Democratic Party could do for the GOP.

Not because she's a woman. I really don't think gender matters that much in today's society.

I was going to buy Hillary's biography. Then I picked up a copy and read the dust jacket. It talked about how she was born and raised in Park Ridge, Ill. a middle-class suburb of Chicago and her family didn't have much.

Horse-pucky! Anyone who knows Park Ridge knows it is not very middle class and Hillary's family was far from poor.

If you lie on the dust jacket, I'm not voting for you for anything.

I've also read Guiliani's book. I'd vote for him, depending on who his Vice Presidential Candidate is. If you read Rudy's management book, you'll see that he was a micro-manager as mayor. He'd be a heart attack waiting to happen as President.

That's how I see it.

Unc.

OGE --

I agree 100%

I would probably swith the red state vs. blue state analogy to say that the blue state people aren't ready for republican values . . . but that's neither here nor there

The point is to work together and avoid being vague and insulting.

Unc.

The girl is on your pack roster from the council, eh?

That can be corrected by showing the council registrar the roster and explaining that this is a girl. The registrar works at the scout office and is the one who enters the data. On a Cub Scout application, it doesn't ask gender -- because girls can't join. Registrars and other people who look at the application aren't in a position to figure it out from the first name . . . it doesn't work that way today.

After all . . . impish grin . . . how are we to know that Eamonn isn't Eamonna!

Unc.

I have to disagree with the clerk who told you that they do not wear well. I wear only the poly/wool or cotton uniforms.

The pants do wear well and are very well built. The pockets are different. They're trouser pockets much like those found on the average pair of Dockers. They fit well too and are worth the money.

Unc.

Ed:

(Acco, pardon me if I'm taking too much liberty interpreting what you said)

To a person with a Michigan background, when you said you had to travel to the UP to vote, it means "I had to go all the way to the Upper Peninsula (of Michigan) to cast my ballot."

There's not much up in the upper peninsula of Michigan, so I'm sure acco was as surprised as I am that you had to drive there from Pennsylvania to vote.

Unc.

PS -- where's your UP?