dsteele

Merlyn:

You tire me, sir. You called me, in another thread, too stupid to be in the military.

Let me throw this one at you and I wouldn't be surprised if you and I were the only two who understand the reference (perhaps OGE as well.)

"Life is but a walking shadow. A poor player who struts and frets his hour upon the stage. It is a tale told by an idiot. Full of sound and fury . . . signifying nothing."

This is your mission in life?

Unc.

When it comes right down to it, for good or ill, we make our own luck.

I'm in Eamonn's camp on this one.

Unc.

A man blowing on a candle can extinguish the flame.

A man blowing on a campfire will only fan the flames.

Unc.

My friends:

I was going to start this post with "No, no, no, no, you've got it backward . . . "

However, I've had a change of heart and will take a different tack.

When I was a newbie Scoutmaster of a small troop, I had similar problems with a Star Scout of high intelligence, etc. No matter what discipline, SM conference tactics I took, or whatever, it didn't work. The boy seemed to exist with the mission of foiling my attempts to turn him into a Scout.

I finally wised up and asked my Eagle Scout SPL to talk to him. I don't know what was said between the two youth and I probably don't want to know . . . but it sure worked.

There's a reason for youth leadership.

Food for thought.

Unc.

I'm heartened by the article in this thread and in the closed thread on the related matter.

I'm not surprised. After all, if the Soviet Union could not kill Scouting and Hitler couldn't warp it to match his twisted desires . . . I doubt very much a settlement with the ACLU will even make a ding.

Just food for thought.

Unc.

God was with us on that day. God was with us on 9/11.

May He hold all of the fallen in His warm hands.

Unc.

How did a Quaker learn to cuss like Nixon did?

Not that I disbelieve you. I don't. I'm just wondering.

Unc.

As an adult volunteer -- Scoutmaster.

As a youth -- Senior Patrol Leader.

Currently -- my current Scouting position is pretty darned good as well.

Unc.

I wish for a happy thanksgiving for all as well.

Eamonn -- you and yours will be remembered vocally at our family thanksgiving tomorrow. I'm giving the grace as well as cooking the meal, so I can guarantee it.

Bless you all!

Unc.

It's probably not the best time of year for it, but you are in Tennessee where the climate is a bit more comfortable.

I don't know how much you'll make, but you'll make enough to cover awards. Have a garage sale.

Each boy in the pack contributes something from his family. Price it fairly, and assign a number to each family. Label the item with the number of the donor's family and give them 25% of the purchase price in a "Scout Account." Keep a log book. The rest of the profit goes into the pack account.

Keep your December 7 pack meeting date, but change it to a "garage sale item turn in and inventory" meeting. Plan another pack meeting for December 14th and have a Pack Christmas party -- including awards, with the profits from your sale.

You don't have time (probably) or the money to pay for an ad in the paper, but a few Cub made signs placed strategically can get the word out.

Just a thought.

Ya said ya were desperate

Unc.

The last I checked, I was alone when I voted. While I believe God was with me, it was my hand that punched the ticket . . . not His.

I don't care who tells me how to vote. That's much like telling me to go to $#&& --anyone can tell me, but only God can enforce it!

Unc.

I'm not opposed to changes in merit badge requirements as times change.

Okay, so back when I was a kid -- going camping was enough. We enjoyed the campouts. Sure, we had planned activities for Saturdays, but just being in the open was enough.

Now it seems like the boys get into camp and the camp is a means to an end -- what are we going to DO on the campout?

I don't have a problem with the merit badge giving 6 options when only 2 are required. We ought to be able to figure out how to make it work.

What got me thinking along these lines . . . ?

When I took Safety Merit Badge in 1978, one of the requirements was to stand on a street corner for 4 hours and take notes of safety problems (red lights run, crossing against traffic, etc.)

I don't know why they took that requirement out of the Safety Merit Badge? Anyone care to guess ?

Unc.

I stand with the Old Grey Eagle on this one. Take it outside, gentlemen. DISCUSSIT! somewhere else. To the rest of the world, the caps was not shouting, I just don't know how to do the italics thing.

OGE --

I feel for you. You're in a bind that may be larger than you know. How could you turn down a council Venturing position and still look the young lady in your Crew who has accepted a Regional Position in the eye?

It's not us you have to answer to.

I think you would do very well in the position and that you're getting excellent advice. I've also heard that the Greater Pittsburgh Council is doing great things in Venturing. We're a bit behind the 8 ball here, but we're getting better. I'd be happy to offer advice and counsel.

Unc.

This question is directly addressed to Merlyn. I wonder if he has the guts to answer a question from a man he dubbed "too stupid to be in the military."

The question is:

So what does Rob Sherman's personalized liscence plate say today?

In 1998, it was "ATHEIST 1"

By 2000, it was "LIBERAL 1"

Of course, that was after a rough patch with the law that he'd gone through.

I only ask because he was or is the President of the American Atheist Association and I wonder what value he would have had to the BSA as a role model.

I apologize if you only think I'm a little ticked off. The fact is that I'm not ticked off -- I'm angry.

Unc.

OGE and NJ --

Thanks for straightening me out on the timeline. It makes more sense to me now. I stand by my statements that Skokie, IL is no longer predominantly Jewish -- I know neither of you denied that claim. In the 1970's it was.

There is still a Jewish presence there, but nothing like it was 40 years ago.

I'm glad I learned at least something in this thread. A stupid guy like me . . . you know.

Unc.

I'm not sure when this American Nazi (what a horrible oxymoron) march through Skokie was supposed to occur.

But if it happened between 1999 and 2003, when I lived in the area, I can tell you that there weren't a bunch of holocaust survivors looking out their windows in horror in Skokie.

By then, most of the Jewish population had moved to Buffalo Grove or Arlington Heights and weren't there to see it.

There were a bunch of Indians, Pakistanis and Hispanics, looking out their windows wondering what the heck was going on.

Skokie hasn't been predominantly Jewish for more than 10 years.

Unc.

Gene P -- Keep on a goin' guy! You're on the right track.

This is the last time I'll adress Merlyn -- who has finally resorted to more name calling and otherwise belittling others . . .

when he said, "I'd say you're also too stupid to be in the military. How hard is it to understand that:

it's illegal for the military to discriminate on the basis of religion

it isn't illegal for the military to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation

...so that's why the ACLU sued on the basis of religious discrimination, and not sexual orientation. Duh."

I've been called a lot of things. Most of which I deserved at one time or another. Stupid isn't one of them.

Merlyn, I thought better of you. Who are you to question my intelligence? It is the small minded that attack the intellect in the face of an argument.

I don't call you stupid because you don't believe in God. I call you an atheist. Your term, not mine.

I find it interesting that you cast homosexuals out on their own. You said, "It isn't illegal for the military to discriminate based on sexual orientation." You don't seem to have a problem with this. Interesting. So you're only concerned with your own self interest -- the absence and elimination of God.

I'm sorry, sir. I can not accept your nature. I'm sure you can't accept mine, either. I'm fine with that.

But don't call me stupid. That's a gross overgeneralization by a man on a losing wicket.

Pontius Pilote knew how to wash his hands. It's time I do the same thing. Adieu.

The previous paragraph may not have meant much to you, but it had symbolic meaning to those who believe.

I'm done with this thread.

Unc.

In the words of the musician's who penned the lyrics, "nothin' plus nothin' leaves nothin'" with a slight twist "nothin' minus nothin' leaves nothin'."

I could not possibly have more respect for the ACLU now that I've read Merlyn's post than I did before.

So the ACLU will be happy to sue wherever they can to prevent the discrimination of the BSA against atheists on military bases, but has no trouble with homosexuals being kicked out of the military.

They won't offer to help a short soldier sue to get into West Point.

Interesting.

I won't stick words in the magic theatre man's mouth, I'll simply take them out of it:

"The ADA allows for legitimate physical qualifications; if you'd like to file a lawsuit against the military, go right ahead. "

Thanks for the help. Good thing I'm tall enough. Unfortunately, now I'm too old.

All generalizations are wrong -- said the solar powered brain in a dark room.

Unc.

T'would seem to me . . .

I agree that the difference between an Explorer Post and a Venturing Crew is the difference between learning a career and learning a hobby.

If that is the accepted premise:

There is no way a volunteer fire department can charter an Explorer Post. They are performing a serious duty, but it is in no way a career. In my mind, that would make it a crew. The people doing the teaching, the advisors, don't really know what it is to be a fire/fighter 24/7 although they do know how to put out fires and are passionate about it.

A full time fire department, teaching youth how to be full time fire fighters would be an Explorer Post. They are able to teach all phases, including psychological and other factors, of full time firefighting.

I'm not trying to bash volunteer firemen. Far from it. I'm just saying that there is a distinction.

To make a Scouting comparision:

What if there were a group of Scouters dedicated to teaching people of age 14-20 about being volunteer Scouters? That would be a Crew.

A crew of professional Scouters teching young people how to be professional Scouters would be a post.

That's just one guy's humble opinion.

Unc.

Merlyn --

If I may take a crack at asking Ed's question in a manner which I hope does not offend . . .

Why is it alright for the military to have a don't ask/don't tell policy about homosexuals, and still discharge those who are discovered to be?

I didn't want to go down this road. I have the highest respect for our armed forces.

Why is it acceptable for them to discriminate and still use military facilities, yet not possible for the BSA to do so and use military facilities.

Okay -- that's not the hard question.

Here's the hard one --

Each of the Military Academies has height and weight requirements that must be met by cadets. I don't know for sure, but I believe this applies to enlisted positions as well.

Is this not unlawful discrimination? Even more so because it violates the ADA?

Don't hear the ACLU making much noise over that one.

Unc.

Scouter1910 --

Welcome to the forums. Best of luck to you in your pursuit of a career in Scouting. We need good Scouting professionals.

Unc.

It's Me said, "Why is a youth group such as the BSA such a target for Gay and atheists groups?"

Excellent question. I don't have the answers, but I have some theories:

1) The Gay and Athiests want to feel good about themselves. That's a human trait and I don't deny it to anyone.

There's a large organization, nation-wide that excludes gays and atheists. That organization is generally perceived as good.

When that organization does not accept individuals who are of the same mind set as yourself (even if you don't want to join that group,) the typical reaction is outrage. Of course that's after the dis-belief fades.

I don't have a problem with people fighting for American Civil Liberties -- which in my mind include, but are not limited to: the right to vote, the right of free speech, the right to bear arms, the right to a speedy trial, etc.

However, the priviledge of belonging to a country club, diner's club, Sam's Club, or other institution such as the Boy Scouts of America is not a civil liberty.

Meryln understands this -- that's why he's opposed to government entitiies chartering units and unopposed to equal access. Fair enough.

However, I think that the underlying effort to get the BSA to change it's policies comes from hurt feelings more than anything else.

Gays want to feel like their lifestyle is accepted by all. Recent votes taken in 11 states have proven otherwise.

Athiests want the world to accept them and don't want to have to deal with religious people who argue with them or listen to what they see as usless idolatry. I don't see that happening anytime soon, either.

These issues are pretty well entrenched. The minority is very vocal. The majority is relatively silent, but very strong.

We'll continue to go round and round with stuff like this for quite a while, I expect.

Unc.

Where is the adult peer pressure?

Your District's roundtables, commissioner staff and training.

It's Me, I think it speaks volumes about the problem when you saw no problem criticising 200 Cub Scouts and their parents and your council, when you weren't even wearing your own definition of a uniform.

My understanding is that there's a relationship between stones and sin . . .

Unc.

This post is not addressed to Merlyn. It's an attempt to get some people to ask some questions.

I'll start:

How is it that a US district judge -- not a federal judge, is able to order the defense department to do anything?

Why is it that the only people quoted in the article are ALCU members or attorneys for the ALCU? If the article (which is actually a press release in my mind) were balanced, would there not be a statement from a DOD official?

How did a lawsuit by the Illinois ACLU become binding (nowhere does it say it is) on a federal level? If it did become binding, don't you think the ACLU folks (who are the only ones speaking about this) would have trumpeted the victory in a big way.

I'm just asking questions that occur to me. I'm not interested in entering the athiest debate. Learned my lesson on that one.

I know what I believe. I know no one is going to change my mind and talking to me about it just isn't worth my time or anyone elses. It's probably the same going in the other direction.

I do, however, resent "spin."

Unc.