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  • #91
    Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
    .... Medical practitioners and others have recognized that scouting can be good for kids facing social challenges and other challenges. So scouting becomes a treatment option.
    Scouting is not a treatment option. I just got back from one of my son's weekly treatments. $300 a pop with a PhD who has 20 years worth of professional experience treating kids with autism and auditory issues.

    The idea that scouting is a treatment for any medical condition is ridiculous. We take our son to medical professionals for that.

    What we do hope for from scouting is an environment free of bullying. I want my son to simply be able to take part to the best of.his ability. He is quiet and gentle. His biggest sin is that he sometimes can't hear the leader and that he has poor gross motor skills. I fail to see how he has negatively impacted any of the other boys.

    We will likely be dropping out of team sports this year. My son loves basketball, and had been involved in a small church league for the last 4 years. He loves it and does his best, but he isn't a star athlete.

    Last season was awful. None of the other boys would pass to him during games. On the rare occasions when he did actually get his hands on the ball, one teammate would constantly grab it.out of my son's hands so he could get yet another basket. My son effectively was blocked from playing.

    I asked the other kid's mother to ask her son to stop, and explained that my son has a disability. Her reply? "Why shouldn't my son do his best because of your kid?". How Christian of her.

    I'm not going to institutionalize my son or pull him out of scouts because of his disability. Anyone who thinks we're too inconvenient to have around can pound sand.

    There but for the grace of God go you. Your child is one car accident or bad fall.away from dealing with the medical, educational, and financial.burden we deal with every day. Try to extend the same grace you hope you would receive in our shoes.

    Last edited by GeorgiaMom; 07-15-2014, 07:45 PM. Reason: formatting errors


    • #92
      "Try to extend the same grace you hope you would receive in our shoes." Is suppose that sentence has different meaning to us both.


      • #93
        And what makes one think that the rest of us don't have problems we deal with as well as parents? My son made the local boys' choir (one of the top in the nation, tours Europe, etc.) and did so with a perfect audition. He lasted less than a year because the conductor didn't think he needed his ADHD medication. The public school was legally forced to deal with him and the school was also sued for denying him his civil rights and he won. It's not just other boys, sometimes adults are just as bad bullying kids as other kids so no one out there is exempt. My boy has now gone about 7-8 years without communicating with anyone in his family as a result of his and many other factors that turned a nice kid into someone who can't function in the real world. There are no guarantees in this life. The best we can do is get the boys prepared, i.e. Be Prepared, for what life has to throw at them.



        • #94
          Ya know, I just wanted to share. I am sad you just can't take my thoughts at face value without jumping all over it.


          GeorgiaMom ... Treatment option ... You are being unfair. Youth with special needs have multiple treatment paths that are pursued concurrently. Yes, your son has extremely trained doctors and physical therapists and occupational therapists and probably others and special help in schools, etc, etc. But medical professionals do often suggest scouting as part of options to help their patients. It addresses social, physical and skills needs. It is a very very very good outlet. You might not like me using the term "treatment option" but when it is suggested by doctors I consider it exactly that.

          GeorgiaMom & jblake47 ... I know life is very hard with kids with special needs. Just don't infer I'm not sensitive to this. We each have our own issues and none of us get through life without difficulty. Plus our troop in no way could function if us adult leaders who are at camp month in and month out did not deal with these issues. Many of us have taken special training both at University of Scouting and through community education. We are very sensitive to it and very supportive. As a parent, I've worked with my children to also be understanding, supportive and teach them to be inclusive of everyone in the troop.


          My point is just that kids are just kids and everyone in scouts is a volunteer, youth and adults. You may have had to use your legal rights to get schools to respond. But I can't make families bring their kids to scouts. Heck, my kids don't always want to attend either. Scouting depends so so much on the social abilities of the scouts and socializing disorders does affect the program.

          I'm just wonder how socializing disorders affects current membership issues and the perception of scouting.

          Imagine an average eleven year old trying to make friends. But the kid he meets stares blankly at him or walks away or won't listen or does something that is socially very awkward. I can't be there every moment to smooth the situation. Heck, in a properly functioning troop, I'm not hovering and I am 300 feet away most of the day.


          There is a local troop that does not seem to have these issues. They are known as a backpacking troop and they go twelve months a year backpacking. High skills. High standards because they need those standards to stay safe. No car camping. No troop trailer filled with heavy equipment and shelters and big big tents. No easy outs if you are not prepared.

          IMHO, their program scares away or weeds out kids with special needs. Maybe they have one or two. But there is no way they could function as a troop and do what they do with over 50% with such needs.


          Again, I apologize if this offends you. I just think about it at times.

          Just don't think I'm not sympathetic and supportive.

          .................................................. .

          If you want to discuss this further, branch into another thread. This thread was for MattR's questions.


          • #95
            The Boyscouts refuse membership or kick boys out for being Atheists, for not believing in a greater power. They believe such belief is core to personal growth and as such an Atheist Scout MAY NOT fullfill his best potential.

            The Boyscouts kick out boys who are gay or transgendered, because of a fundamental belief that who they are may not be ok. That any form of homosexuality is morally wrong and that such a boy MIGHT behave immorally during scouting activities.

            This Boy DID break a civilian law as well as scout law and his scout oath (mentally awake? I don't think so. Morally straight? Still not thinking so). He DID offer it to others, younger and impressionable scouts. When policy has others being refused membership or kicked out for what they might or might not do, this boy should definitely be kicked out for what he DID do. No eagle scout, no pat on the back and saying good try next time you will do better. If he is almost eagle then he has had the opportunity within the troop to know right from wrong and be mature enough to answer for his actions through experiences if not in age.

            I live in Washington where it is now legal to buy pot, 3 stores within 15 minutes of my house! My son is almost 12 and very impressionable to the older Boys activities. We all know kids steal cigarettes, booze, or dirty magazines from older siblings or adults in the household out of curiosity. Now the likelihood of pot being easily accessible and stolen in similar fashion and ending up on a camp-out is a guarantee. Policy and examples need to be made now before its not one boy shaming scouts here and there but entire troops.


            • #96
              Originally posted by Longhaired_Mac View Post
              The Boyscouts kick out boys who are gay or transgendered, because of a fundamental belief that who they are may not be ok. That any form of homosexuality is morally wrong and that such a boy MIGHT behave immorally during scouting activities.
              You do know this isn't true anymore right?


              • #97
                I'd take up Mac's "throw the bums out" mantra if I saw it working. That is if, as a result, contraband would never show up at camp again. If it didn't result in a gang of kids bragging that they are the "kicked out of BS" gang. In general, MattR's more cautiously balanced approach is more likely to yield the desired result. The road off the cliff rarely takes you to the summit.


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Rick_in_CA View Post
                  You do know this isn't true anymore right?
                  I do know that it isn't true anymore, I was trying to make a point contrasting what might be and what was for affect. However those policy even removed, intentionally or not, did set a precedence that hard lines can be drawn. When it comes to drugs I feel, and it's IMHO for sure, high expectations and strict consequences need to be in place. Policies made strategically beforehand rather than later reactively usually work far better.

                  Is there a criteria set down by National to deal with drug possession and distribution by a boy or an adult while on scout properties or outings? The corruption of minors?


                  • #99
                    Doesn't anyone talk to the boys about this stuff BEFORE they are tempted to do it?

                    Every year, all my boys go through the pamphlet exercise, first year with parents, every year after with the troop leadership.

                    I have served youth for 40+ years beginning in the initial stages of the drug revolution of the 60's all the way up until now. I have never had a problem like this, but my boys know exactly what the scout oath and law is all about and how it is carried out both in and outside of scouting. Maybe it's just the midwest part of the country I live in, I don't know, but I have dealt with youth groups out on the west coast and they were just fine.

                    If one is going to teach adulthood to these kids one has to rely on a lot more than just the BSA rank requirements to get these boys ready for life.



                    • Yikes ... been hearing more and more about pot at various kid functions...not good ...

                      Rules are rules... rules for all of us are called laws....of course they vary from locale to locale...but in general terms ...

                      If you offer a minor tobacco, alcohol, OTC drugs, illegal drugs or sexual contact ... it's a crime of some sort...that's a job for legal break the big rules, you get the big consequences.

                      The kid has problems far bigger than whether or not he Eagles. If he's offered pot up at Scout camp then he's done so elsewhere...


                      • Update:

                        The kid did the proscribed class and urine check every week for 12 weeks and kept himself clean. I tried talking to him twice but he never responded. I also occasionally looked at his facebook page. The bottom line is he didn't seem to really want to make a change in his life. His facebook page is, well, embarrassing. He's still hanging out with the same group of kids, who are not a good influence. So when it came to rechartering I told the person handling it that this boy could recharter with us but he had to talk to me first. I figure if he can't find the nerve to call me and he's made no attempt at all of cleaning things up, then my inviting him back into the troop is a mistake. This is a horse and water thing and I don't see any motivation on his part. He can still call me but I'm not holding my breath.

                        Not exactly what I was hoping for but I'm not surprised at all.


                        • Sorry your attempts fell on the having "to be willing to accept a little hurt."

                          It's better to drop him from the charter. If he wants to come back in the new year, it will require talking to you, plus the paperwork. If he take's up the first burden, I'm sure the BSA youth application will be pretty light.

                          If he doesn't come round, he's better off for having dealt with you. Hopefully he'll have the good sense to tell you that when he grows up. (Here's praying he does.)


                          • Matt, scouting was never really that important to this young man. So how did his court hearing go?


                            • BD, he kept himself clean for 12 weeks, peed in a cup randomly, and took a diversion course so the court said he's fine. And for that I would have let him back in the troop, had he asked.

                              His dad did call me yesterday, and said his son wants to transfer. Dad said it would be too rough for his son to come back to the troop because of the negative history. I could have said all sorts of things about how it could be a silver lining and a character building experience but all I said was fine and good luck. I just wanted to ask if he's so afraid of what other people will think of him then why his facebook page still looks like a cesspool. I don't know what's going through his mind but it's not that he thinks he did something wrong.

                              The Council Exec said he'd talk to the new SM to let him know of this kid's history. The Council would not like to see him receive Eagle unless he can prove he's changed. I'm really glad I don't have to make that call.