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Green Bar Bill Excluded from National Scouting Museum

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  • #46
    The National Executive Board like the Council Executive Board are made up of hand selected well placed individuals who are volunteers and lend their names for National level fundraising projects for a certain term. I doubt most of them have any idea what is happenning at the National museum or could even care. If you look into this deep enough I bet you will find that Mazzucca,Tito, and the ACSE behind this move since GBB and his ideas for scouting run so contrary to Mazzucas vision/plan for the future of the BSA.


    • #47
      While the museum is definitely worth the visit, it has many opportunities not really being met, in my opinion. And as far as historical research goes, it is nearly impossible to really get access. I finally gave up, as I simply do not have the right connections to get past the barriers. I would dearly love being able to research my area's pre-council records prior to 1921 when we were chartered. Local records indicate hundreds of scouts from 1910 on, but very little is known about the units, as they were all at large charters, the records of which are hopefully in a file someplace. I say hopefully, because sometimes short sighted people toss old stuff that seems of little importance to them. The biggest thing I would hope to find would be one or two Eagles from prior to our council founding, as there were a substantial number in the first decade, which would indicate a strong possibility of a few earlier.

      Oh well. Just keep working on what is available locally through newspaper research and the local museums.


      • #48
        Another case of the victor writes the history books.
        Reading about this sapped all the warm fuzzy feeling I had coming home from summer camp.

        Anybody got a grass roots plan to carry on Bill's work? Or at least remind others of his legacy???


        • #49
          Prarie, the answer to your question is simple. Get your troop camping. 10 times a year. Summer camp. Provide opportunities for High Adventure bases. Know other scoutmasters that your boys can go with if your troop doesn't have enough boys to go to Philmont or Boundary Waters or Sea Base. Camp. Often. Simple.


          • #50
            Hey Ala-BAMA!

            My bias is that Philmont and other such bases are overpriced and not something I'd promote as part of a Scouting program.

            At least in areas surrounding Seattle, there are huge varieties of quality trips Troops can take.

            My aim is a quality Scouting program that can be run at low to moderate cost.

            What I see is that Philmont type programs typically involve a heavily adult led program to raise money and such. It just doesn't seem necessary, at least around here. Other areas might not have quite the same advantages for quality trips.


            • #51
              I never met Bill Hillcourt or have anything that he autographed, BUT every copy of Boy's Life, I read the Green Bar Bill article first.


              • #52
                prairie writes:

                Anybody got a grass roots plan to carry on Bill's work?

                The most obvious difference between Bill's Patrol Method and the "Leadership Development" Patrol Method that replaced it, was the primary experience of Scouting: Your Patrol moving through space as a distinct unit, separate from the other Patrols in the Troop (what Green Bar Bill called a "Real" Patrol).

                At the unit level, the easiest way to approximate this experience is through backpacking: Allow a trusted, competent Patrol to hike without adult supervision during the day, and then camp Baden-Powell's 300 feet away from the other Patrols that night at the common destination.

                If (as in most Troops these days) your Patrols are a random mixture with only a few willing Scouts competent enough to navigate in the backwoods without adult supervision, then consider an ad hoc backpacking Patrol of older Scouts whose maturity and competency you trust.

                If your Troop does not backpack, then all the vintage Patrol Flags and Patrol Cheers in the world will never replicate the "Real" Patrol experience, but just camping your best Patrols "a football field apart" will get things moving in the right direction.

                Yours at 300 feet,



                • #53
                  Perhaps a practical first step would be for each Scouter on this forum to calculate how many paces it would take for 300'.


                  • #54

                    From what I have read in the historical material I have, and also can discern to some extent from old time scouters' stories, and even many photos from the early days, backpacking was not a particularly normal thing. They used trek carts and wagons, as well as pack horses or mules, and carried minimal personal gear in rucksack type gear. Not to say they did none at all, but the other types were far more common. Of course day hikes were a huge part of the program. Often leaders would cart the main gear to a site, and the scouts would then hike to meet them.

                    I suspect that many scouts of that period would be really surprise how much gear is now backpacked by the scouts themselves, without wheels or four legged friends. Of course, the gear is no where comparable, so it is not apples to apples.

                    Summer camps were far different then too. Most were individuals going, rather than troops; occasionally a patrol. Most were at least 10 days to 3 weeks. They did have their version of group cooking; most camps had a regular cook that fed the scouts and staff from a kitchen of some kind; often a tent and outdoor stove, but eventually camps had real cook houses. Halls were not overly common, but large eating areas were, under canvas of some kind. Tents were often very large, holding more than the two common today.

                    While your desire to see BSA go back to what you see as its best years has many positive points; you really should consider that even then, they were always evolving. Many of the serious outdoor troops do things today that scouts then would never have imagined; and they do them more safely, and with far superior equipment. And I have seen a lot of very successfully "boy led" units over the years, with good patrols which can, and sometimes do function separately. Still, that element really does need a lot of strengthening, I would agree; especially in those units that are pretty much assembly lines led by adults. Ironically, the two largest troops in our council, with the best patrols, also turn out large quantities of Eagles. Having sat on many of their boards, seen them at COR's, and also counseled them at times, I can assure you that their skills are pretty good overall.


                    • #55

                      Most Scouts understand "find a cool place a football field away from the other Patrols."


                      I'm not advocating historical reenactment.

                      Our gung-ho backpackers bring their phones and MP3 players

                      The primary "Green Bar Bill" experience that modern backpacking can "approximate" is your Patrol moving through physical space without the rest of the Troop's adults and Scouts.

                      Troop backpacking trips also help filter out the annoying Paper Eagles who don't like Scouting.

                      Food was a big part of such outings, with Patrol Hikes being either a "Chop Hike" (Patrol Cooking), or a "Sandwich Hike."

                      Yours at 300 feet,



                      • #56
                        At our local Council's summer camp, the new Scout program is known as the Green Bar Bill program. The shelter in which it is taught is known in that way as well.

                        And by the way, none other than Dr. Goodman is buried within 30 miles of here and was an honorary member of our Lodge (#200) in his later years.


                        • #57

                          That will work. I have a way of over complicating things...


                          • #58
                            Tampa Turtle writes:

                            I have a way of over complicating things...

                            Think of a cheesy acronym for it and sell it to Wood Badge as the new Green Bar Bill killer


                            • #59
                              Sorry, started a new post befre seeing this one. Green Bar Bill is only mentioned once, as the official biographer of BadenPowell, in the new book Scout Stuff by Robert Birkby and published by DK.


                              • #60
                                Sorry, started a new post befre seeing this one. Green Bar Bill is only mentioned once, as the official biographer of BadenPowell, in the new book Scout Stuff by Robert Birkby and published by DK.