when you get irked

[Lisabob 13]

We all know that teenagers can be exasperating sometimes. Sooner or later, that will apply to teens you might work with in a scouting context. I'm not talking about gross misbehavior, but more about how teens can be headstrong, somewhat tactless, and maybe even disrespectful without really intending to be.

 

Sometimes that irritation might come about because we adults can't or won't get out of the way and let the boys learn by doing. So we put up barriers that don't really need to be there, some boys inevitably challenge those barriers, some adult takes offense at this "disrespect" and then we die on that mole hill (figuratively, of course).

 

Sometimes we adults respond to our irritation in ways that are inappropriate. Foul language or lots of shouting or threats, or posting snide comments on a youth's facebook page. Not surprisingly, youth don't take well to that and lose whatever respect they might have had for an adult who falls into that trap.

 

Sometimes maybe both sides are somewhat wrong. Maybe one of the older boys in leadership does get a bit disrespectful or lets his frustration with (what he sees as) some silly adult-imposed limits get the better of him. Maybe adult leaders respond in such a way as to blow up the situation, rather than calm it down.

 

When these things happen and start to spiral, how would YOU intervene? Whose job is it to intervene, anyway?

 

What do you advise that new ASM or Committee member (or SM, or CC) to do, when they're full up to "there" with a kid who hasn't done anything really wrong, but who they just don't get on with? In your unit(s), do you have any policies, whether written or unwritten, regarding how an adult should deal with a youth who is irritating them?

 

 

 

[Gunny2862 11]

I really try to avoid either being irked or at the least to avoid showing any ?irkiness?

 

It looks to me as though there a several possible answers because I'm reading more than one situation/issue going on.

But, It's the adults responsibility to retain their cool - or at least not blow up.

 

When a youth challenges an adult there is usually an underlying issue and the challenge is rarely made on the topic the youth is really dealing with. The topic of the conversation has usually been chosen for the win rather than to deal with his actual issue.

 

The first step is to separate the irked adult and the irking youth, and deal with each of them separately and then bring them back together to finish it - because if it isn't put to bed the conflict can cause ongoing communication issues between them.

On the one occasion where I did let a youth get to me I am so glad there was a limited audience, I was still an ASM and had been doing Scouting for a career total of less than 3 months - I was till not well read on to this game and was still playing some military games... That youth irked me but he wouldn't now.

 

At some point, depending on what we are talking about - an irritating, provoking youth is a discipline problem and a discipline problem can rise to being a disruption, and at some point that disruption can rise to preventing a safe environment for himself or the other Scouts and I think we all know where that thread can lead.

 

But most questioning youth aren't trying to be irritating- they may want attention, have legitimate questions, need some additional mentoring to offset a heightened stress level at home, or any number of other reasons why they ask a gazillion questions you may or may not know the answer to at that moment in time - but again your job may be to diagnose the underlying rationale for their actions and deal with that rather than just take on the peppering assault of incessant questioning.

[Eagledad 2779]

This is an interesting question, a very good question.

 

I look back on those moments with those few scouts and all I can answer is patience and separation. Whether it was a scout who clearly was trying to get my goat or just one of those unintentionally annoying scouts; patience and separation is what saved me, or would would have saved me if I could go back in time.

 

By the way, its not just scouts. My daughter

 

Barry

 

[evmori 11]

Great question.

 

The way I handled it was to remind them it isn't about you. It's about the boys. And they learn differently than you and I do. Do I understand it? Nope. I think it is really an age thing. It seems once they hit their early 20's, the light goes off in their brains and they go, "Oh yeah!"

 

I had one of those daughters, Barry.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, sometimes there are adult and youth personalities that just clash, eh? I always encourage adults to recognize that, and then let others work with that boy. Seems to work best all around. Separation, as someone said. Happily, different adults tend to get "irked" by different youth, so it works out OK.

 

When an adult goes a bit off da reservation, I've generally found that da best responses come from the wise "old guard" fellows in the unit, if a unit has any. The folks who've been around a while, built up a lot of respect, and who can approach the adult calmly for a conversation or some humor or a gentle remonstrance and just re-focus the thing. Those people are invaluable. Sometimes they're former SMs, sometimes they're UCs or CCs, I've known one or two active CORs who were good at it. Lots of times it's da SM. Loosely speaking it can't be a "peer parent"... someone whose kids are the same age. Has to be someone with some more gravitas.

 

A few times, maybe more than a few, yeh find adults with somewhat fragile egos who can't take teen push-back and turn it into one of those molehill "respect" wars. I confess that I don't think yeh can help in those situations. Adults with fragile egos should not be workin' with teens, it's just not a good fit. I usually help 'em work into a committee position or some other support role. Workin' with teens yeh have to be well grounded. They generate enough sparks on their own without us adding any.

 

Beavah

 

[Twocubdad 665]

Our rule is that not all the leaders can be P.O.'d at the same kid all at the same time. Someone has to keep cool.

 

Generally, and as others have said, the way we avoid friction between any two people in the troop -- youth, adults, brothers, fathers and sons -- is to keep them separated. We try to do that structurally, when possible, by not assigning dads to work with their sons and keeping brothers in different patrols,etc. When an unforseen problem arises, we reassign folks to keep sufficient distance. As Scoutmaster, it's my responsibility to keep an eye out for that. But that's also one of those things where it's good if mutiple see it as their joint and several responsibility to solve problems.

 

Mabe a little different twist from what you are asking about, but as the Scoutmaster, my view is I'm the one guy who can't walk away. ASMs can be given different roles, BOR members can recuse themselves, different merit badge counselors can be found. But the Scoutmaster is always the Scoutmaster.

 

In nearly seven years in the troop, I've had one Scout with whom I just could not work and another when I was around I really had to bite my lip and swallow hard. But I tried really hard to treat those boys as fairly as any other Scout. That's really tough, especially when one of the boys spent a great deal of time and effort tormenting my own son. That Papa Bear reflex is a tough one to overcome. But I don't get to be Scoutmaster for part of the troop.

 

Neither are with the troop any longer. In both cases the boys clearly were not interested in Scouting but were involved at their parent's insistence. That was reflected in their attitude and behavior. Ultimately their behavior did them in. One was dismissed from the troop outright. The other was suspended for a time and chose not to return.

 

Fortunately, I have enough bench strength in the troop leadership that others can help. When it came to dealing with the behavior of these two, we would have mutiple adults sit in on the conferences with the boys and their parents. While I, the Scoutmaster, was still there and involved, I said very little and let the others take the lead.

[Scoutfish 16]

Awesome rule Twocub! LOL!

 

Okay, I am the peacemaker. Most of the time..it even works. What I usually do is take the adult and tell them something along the lines of this: Is the situation red or port? Is it scarlet or rojo?

 

Then they look at me like I'm speaking a forieng language. Then I explain about how I see something, how you see something and how the kid sees it. Different people, different personalities, different perspective. Not one is right, yet non are wrong.

 

I then go into the "try and see it from their point of view" discussuion.

When all of that fails, I bring out the Adult arguing with a kid to the point nobody else can tell which one is the adult.And I talk about how we learn from mistakes and everybody has the right to make those mistakes so they can learn from them.

 

At my job.. I actually have the power to make that person step down and step back.

 

If nothing else, I am pulling an adult out of the fire and alllowing them to cool down and see things more clearly.

 

Of course, I am in a pack and most cases in my experience are adults being mad that the little brat from "those peoples family" ruined something that their own perfect angelic child was doing...unprovoked ..of course!

 

 

[packsaddle 753]

I actually like it when they challenge me. It shows they're interested enough to make the challenge and it is an opportunity to engage in a constructive way, no matter how the challenge is made. But this is also one of those situations where it helps to have the kind of objective detachment that comes with not having a boy in the unit.

I guess it also helps to remember what it was like to drive a school bus way back when. Anyone who can do that without being rattled is going to have it a lot easier with a bunch of boy scouts.

[qwazse 4346]

Prevention helps. We know in advance that father-son pairs can irk one another, so we dads have a pact that we will "ride herd" over one another's kids but not our own. I am always thankful when other adult leaders tell me (in confidence) how they've handled my sons' disciplinary issues, even if I feel they were too lenient.

 

Frequent pow-wows at summer camp over how we've dealt with the tough cases of the day are really helpful. Our troop is blessed with some really experienced adult leaders who take time to camp with us, so their example in handling "tough cases" is invaluable.

 

But when it gets tough. It's really nice to have someone who'll help you take a step back. Two-deep doesn't just mean get any old warm body. It means making sure someone knows how to run interference for you.