My son is a helicopter parent !

[moosetracker 132]

And he doesn't even have a kid..! And his fiance too..

 

So I know, I should have told them to leave the room, and sit and be quiet in the other room like all good helicopter parents should do.

 

Friend of theirs is down to a week before 18. Lost his MBC, but when I got the blue card, no partial.. Nothing was started or signed off. And the MBC had not started him down the trail very well..

 

Verbally the scout knew his stuff.. I overlooked the fact that he did not get pre-approval from his old MBC before doing the project for the family as he did a good project, something I would have approved of, and there wasn't time to play hard ball (not that I do most times).. The charting also had issues, but I settled for just discussing the issues and had him verbally interpret the chart for me (frankly it looked like an empty chart to me, although the scout stated it just didn't print out very well). So no problems from son/fiance when I was lenient..

 

We move to the piece "Submit a report" for the project he did for his family. Which he didn't have a report written. So I asked him to write one as we sat there. Well the howling from the two, you would have thought I had told him to redo his 3 month charting..

 

They insisted I allow him to do a verbal report, and by asking him to write a report I was adding to the requirements.. It did not say "written report".. I stated I see "Submit a report" as written, and "discuss with your councilor" as verbal.. I stuck to my guns.. I already felt I was lowering my standards on the problems with the charting, and the pre-approval of the councilor (old councilors approval would have been fine).. It was not going to kill the scout to write a quick report.

 

I guess they complained to my husband the District Advancement Chair, that I was an awful MBC.. But, "Ha".. he backed me up saying, I interpreted the requirements my way, I was not adding to the requirements and if the scout disagreed with my interpretation of the requirements he was free to find a new MBC..

 

By the way, the scout.. Probably would have prefered the verbal report, but was fine with the written.. He was not the one making the stink.. It was his two self-appointed helicopter parents..

 

I am sure the two helicopter parents will show up on the forum soon to defend themselves..

 

So.. who sides with them, and who sides with me? How many say we both were wrong, because I should have sent them to the other room to sit on the couch, and not interfered.. After thinking about it, that is what I should have done.

[qwazse 4342]

I got to "Call BS" on your son and future D-I-L. They have their own trails to walk. Sit on the couch, be silent, and pray.

 

But, may I suggest you give the troop committee chair the right to "Call BS" on you. The all-in-the family routine can erode trust. Get some accountability into the situation. The boy's SM and CC will have to put their signature on the application. Tell them the nature of his work. Describe the exact quality of the chart. If the boys unit leaders have doubts, they can call your husband.

 

Bottom Line: I had a scout/venturer whose Family Life chart was clearly cobbled together retrospectively. The MBC told CC she had misgivings about signing the blue card. The CC refused to sign the application. (It's in a post somewhere.) I was on the phone with him on deadline day, and my bottom line:

"Did you fulfill all of the requirements?"

"No"

"Well, then, you have a lot to be proud of. Just not this medal."

 

Tell us (and have the SM ask that boy) what makes this boy's trail complete while my boy failed to earn his bird?(This message has been edited by qwazse)

[moosetracker 132]

Well I did trust the scout that he did do the work. That wasn't the issue. The kid gets my vote of confidence.. Problem is he is the only scout who tried to go through scouting the right way in a totally dysfunctional troop.

 

Crossing threads, but this is the one an only older scout from the totally dysfunctional troop that is raising 13 yo Eagles by hand feeding them. This boy had plenty of opportunity to be handfed his Eagle award, he skirted them, and went it alone calling MBC's and doing Merit Badges the right way.. Problem is he had no guidence. Problem is I would imagine any of the MBC's from that troop also did not know how to be good MBC's and work with this youth who did not want to be handfed in a classroom environment..

 

In talking to him, he could tell me what he did, when he did it.. The one week when all chores were done except for one chore because he was away from home on a scouting event.. Again I probably should have had him pen the data into the empty chart.. Not that that wouldn't have gotten me grief from the two hovering parents..

 

I believe the scout is honest, and has tried his best to do his Eagle advancement the right way with no help from his troop.

[qwazse 4342]

Okay. That does make a difference.

 

Oh and since we're crossing threads, you have to cut your son some slack about the "submit a report" definition. You see, thanks to WB21C he was brainwashed on the EDGE method, which does not include any notion of the written word as an essential tool for successful transfer of skills. Therefore, he thinks report is something verbal, sort of an ExplaiDemostro thing. He doesn't realize that by requesting something in writing, you are in fact enabling the presenter to encapsulate his core thoughts and distinguish himself from any other species on the planet. But most people don't associate "writing" with "enabling", so that method is lost in the adoption of a pithy non-translatable acronym.

 

Once he abandons EDGE for more sound methods he'll respect your judgement!

[Stosh 3452]

Normally I didn't want parents to be around when I was doing a MB, but as a Bugling MBC, sometimes there was only one boy and I was single at the time. I needed the parent to stay. Fortunately I had a living room/dining room combo with an archway between the two. The parent was expected to sit quietly in the living room and I had the boy in the dining room. Worked out good.

 

I had only one problem and that was with one parent who wouldn't stay seated in the living room but listened in and then would jump up and get involved.

 

Sometimes one can't win now matter how hard they try.

 

Fortunately for me, that parent/son never came back. I hope the boy found a MBC that would put up with his parents.

 

Stosh

[ScoutNut 147]

The requirements clearly state for the Scout to "submit a report" on the project for req #4.

 

The requirements also clearly state to "discuss" with the merit badge counselor the project for req #5.

 

Given the two distinctly different ways the requirements handle projects, I feel (baring any documented handicap with the Scout) that asking for a quick written recap was well within the MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR'S purview.

 

As for the "chart". The requirements do not state anything about a chart. They state to prepare a list of chores and keep track of how often they are done. This does not have to be anything fancy. It can consist of simply putting tick marks after each name on the list.

 

From the description, nothing was added to the requirements.

 

How the REGISTERED MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR chose to teach/counsel this badge was up to the MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR.

 

The bottom line is that neither MIB, or MIBF, were there as counselors for this merit badge. There were there for Youth Protection purposes ONLY. I would have reminded them that at the get go. When they interrupted the MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR, in front of the Scout, I would have explained my reasons, and then asked if the Scout would prefer to continue, find a different REGISTERED MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR, or wait until either MIB, or MIBF, became REGISTERED MERIT BADGE COUNSELORS for Family Life.

 

As you might have guessed, I am stressing the fact that only a registered merit badge counselor for a particular badge has the final say as to what they approve. Starting an argument in front of a youth member on the semantics of written vs verbal is down right rude.

 

Going to the District Advancement Chair after the fact was entirely their call, and perfectly fine. However, I question what they expected him to do.

 

Did they want him to rescind the badge and have the Scout complete it with a different counselor (even though this is not possible)?

 

Did they want him to take you off of the rolls of counselors for the Family Life badge? Or maybe just threaten to?

 

Or did they want to have dad take their side and chew out mom for not listening to them?

[moosetracker 132]

I think the problem was way to familure with both scout and MBC..

 

Scout is boyfriend to fiance's little sister.. So you could almost say they felt like they were with family all the way around scout & MBC, and forgot the setting and that I as the MBC although having met the scout two or three times, was definatly not on a family basis with him, but more on an accantance through scouting basis..

 

Half was having a good time.. Ha! Ha! Your wrong!.. But half was really trying to push me to do things their way..

 

Luckily I think with this scout turning 18 next week, all friends are on the adult side of the scouting arena..

 

But gut feeling is definately they hoped my husband would side with them, and hoped he would at least threaten me or tease me to being removed as an MBC.. They even voiced the opinion I should be removed for not allowing a verbal report.. This was said though while laughing at me, attempt to defend my stance..

 

I even used the exact same arguement ScoutNut.. "submit a report" on the project for req #4. and Discuss on Req # 5.. Their arguement was that "submit a report" could still be verbal, only I could not interupt him.. One is two way communication the other is one-way communication.. I argued the word Submit as in "hand it over".. They argued submit still could be the act of the verbal report..

 

Technically they were right, but in my interpretation of what BSA expects from this requirement I believe they were wrong.. BSA just didn't fine tune every phrase they used to beat off every dime-store wanna-be lawyer looking for every loophole and easy way out with each and every requirement by putting it under a microscope and picking it apart..

 

[Eagledad 2777]

MBCs have a lot of room for how the interpret the requirements. I trained our adults and scouts to discuss the requirements together at the first visit with the counselor so both the scout and counselor were on the same page. If the scout didnt like how the counselor interpreted the requirements, then that was the time to look for another. As for the counselors, if they were reasonable with their interpretation, council ist going to say anything. Since it was my job to give scouts a list of approved counselors, I usually interviewed my scouts about their counselors. Unless they were way out there with how they worked with scouts, I gave them a lot of room. Asking for written reports is not only reasonable, I think it is preferred because it requires the scouts to practice several personal skills he will need as an adult.

 

I know the discussion was pretty much in the atmosphere of being among family and friends, but I personally would probably have a discussion with my kids on the social etiquette of the moment. His respect for your official position and as a parent was a little out of line.

 

Barry

[CalicoPenn 729]

They were wrong - you were right. They were the ones attempting to add to the requirements, not you. The requirement is "submit a report". It isn't "submit a verbal report" - verbal would be adding to the requirement. It is up to the Merit Badge Counselor to decide how a report is submitted. Most of us would think submit a report means written - and good luck convincing a teacher or professor that cornering them in their office for 15 minutes while you give a verbal presentation is equivalent to submitting a report. On the other hand, as Merit Badge Counselor, you could allow, at YOUR discretion, to have the report submitted as a verbal report, or even smoke signals. The Scout has the option to find a new counselor if he doesn't want to submit the report as the counselor prefers.

 

As for what I would have done to these "helicopter parents"? Probably told them to get out of my sight until they were ready to come back and apologize profusely for their lack of respect, said apology being accompanied by a $100 gift card to my favorite store.

 

Qwaze - the EDGE method doesn't preclude the written word - written instructions, directions and descriptions fit in quite nicely with "Explain", just as representational drawings (of say, a knot and how to tie it) would. Someone using EDGE correctly is going to include bot written and verbal explanations to make sure they cover preferred learning styles of the people they are teaching. Some people need someone to tell them, some just need to see it written down (or drawn out), others need someone to show them, and others need all three.

 

As for the CC refusing to sign the application - which application is that? The MBC who had misgivings about signing the blue card, did she sign it then have second thoughts or did she not sign it? If she didn't sign it, what application would the CC be signing? If she signed it, then what is there for the CC to sign? The MB is earned at that point.

[Lisabob 13]

With due respect to your son and his fiance - they were being obnoxious!

 

Haggling with merit badge counselors in front of the scouts like an ambulance-chasing lawyer is no way to win friends & influence people. They're really lucky that you're "mom" because what other adult would have put up with that behavior? If I had been the MBC in question, at some point (pretty early on) I'd have stopped, asked them whether they planned to let the scout do the work to complete the badge to your satisfaction or not, and then asked them to either sit silently away from the table, or leave the room.

 

Any concerns they have with your style of MB counseling might (and I only allow for "might," not "should" or "must") be calmly discussed in a philosophical sense later on over a cup of coffee - but not while you're in the midst of trying to work with a scout who is clearly old enough and far enough along in the process to handle his own affairs.

 

 

[moosetracker 132]

Calico - I trying to figure out where you got the info on the CC not signing something. The original MBC signed nothing. And that was only mentioned by way of making clear, I did not force this scout to start over, when half the MB was completed with an different MBC.. It was more that, although he started with a different MBC, so I did not have the opportunity to do my pre-meeting discussion, where I over emphisis they need to call me or email me about a project plan before beginning.. I also point out the report, as I have had many a scout not do it, and if they did the project a year back, the mind is hazy as to the project details.. Along with other items we dicuss so he know what is expected, and goes into it with the right attitude..

 

Well from what I got, he did get an MBC, but the MBC, did not pre-meeting, and never met with him at all.. So he went through the MB blindly, but when all was complete, the MBC was no longer an MBC..

 

By the end of the night, Scout was signed off and happy.. Just MBC Mom was a bit frazzled and miffed, and not due to the scout.

 

All in all it was something I should have handled, as stated by sending them out of the room.. So I have to take blame for it getting out of hand.

 

It is just, that it is not a pattern of behavior that I have gotten used to. Normally both MIB & Fiance are wonderful, helpful and I usually can count on them for support.. So I was not prepared with planned procedures as to how to deal with them, should they not be their normal selfs.

 

It was sort of a family setting, they were half humorous rather then totally serious but half not, as they really wanted me to laugh with them and do it their way. I kept waiting for them to stop ribbing me, and settle back down.. So who spiked the punchbowl??

[CalicoPenn 729]

Moose - sorry, I was referring to something Qwaze posted in one of his answers.

 

And I still think MIB and MIBDIL owe you a profuse apology (no such thing as something said half in jest) and a $100 gift card to your favorite store, for being such pills about it.

[Lisabob 13]

but only if they don't have to ask to borrow $100 from you & dad to do it!

[moosetracker 132]

LOL Lisabob, that is exactly what would happen.

[qwazse 4342]

Calico,

 

It would be nice if wrongs could be parlayed into gift cards. Better yet, cash.

 

I am fully aware that EDGE proponents have broadened the definition of the terms to the point that It means nothing.

 

The CC's signature was needed for the Eagle application, which he refused to sign after the MBC voiced misgivings about having signed the blue card the following day.