scout with broken leg/ankle needs 5 mile hike

[Basementdweller]

I don't think I would have asked such a question??????

 

 

How old is the scout????? is he 16 in a hurry to get his eagle?????

 

 

I think that circumventing or using alternate requirements is an abuse of their intent.

 

 

So he broke his ankle, OK, so he has to wait to do the hike, OK, time for someone to have the backbone to tell the young man the way it is. In my opinion he just needs to wait till it is healed.

 

As an adult you need to stop trying to work the system to get advancements......

 

I guess I am just old school that way. Do the requirement as written and get your book signed.

[dg98adams]

Tampa,

I was just a gonna suggest a hand-crank bike. In fact, I always use one (amputee ASM, Cycling MBC).

See if there is a local hand-cycling community (University or cycling club that knows someone willing to loan out one.).

 

Might get some Disability (although temporary) Awareness perspective in if you can find a hand-cycler in the area.

[Twocubdad]

Advancement policies (at least until the new book comes out sometime in the next few weeks or 15 years) says the alternate requirements are for permanent disabilities. This does not (or should not) meet that criteria.

 

Instead of trying to wiggle around a solution for the Scout, why not turn it into a learning experience for him? What are we trying to teach here? That when you have a bad break (ha!) that exceptions will be made for you? That Big Brother will step in and make it right? Or that you pick yourself up, work harder than before and overcome?

 

I'd have a conversation with him along the likes of "it really sucks that you broke your leg and it's unfortunate that you can't complete the second class hike for a couple months yet. But you've got to do what the Dr. says and take care of your leg. As far as Scouts goes, advancement is not the end-all, be-all of the program. Holding off on advancing is not really a big deal. I know you are disappointed and discouraged right now, but trust me, by the time you make Eagle, whether or not you made first class in October or January won't make any difference.

 

And there are lots of other things you can be doing. Have you thought about a getting started on a position of responsibility? You would be a great Den Chief. No, the service time won't count for Star until you complete first class, but DC is a year-long commitment anyway.

 

"How about merit badges? Swimming would be great therapy for your leg. How about Medicine? Part of the requirement is to tour a medical facility. I'm guessing that won't be too difficult to arrange, huh?

 

"Or the PLC needs someone to plan the lock-in the for the week between Christmas and New Years. A young guy like yourself stepping up and showing some initiative will be remembered when the PLC is looking to fill leadership positions down the road.

 

"But you tell me. What do YOU want to do until you ankle mends?"

[5yearscouter]

The Advancement Policy and Procedures Guide for Disability

"All current requirements for an advancement

award (ranks, merit badges, or Eagle Palms) must

actually be met by the candidate. There are no

substitutions or alternatives permitted

*except those which are specifically stated in the requirements*

as set forth in the current official literature of the Boy Scouts of America. Requests can be made for

alternate rank requirements for Tenderfoot, Second

Class, and First Class.."

 

The alternative requirement I posted are

*specifically stated in the requirements*

in the boy's scout book,

so getting approval from national for alternative rank requirements doesn't apply here.

 

so the question is, do you have to have a permanent disability to use the starred alternative requirement? what if the scout ends up being limited in his hiking ability for longer than a few months, would you make him wait a certain amount of time before considering the trip instead of hike??

 

 

I'm not trying to shorty cut the program.

 

The scout will probably wait til he is released by his dr to go on a normal 5 mile hike.

 

The question was to get other perspectives and clarification.

 

He's a go getter new scout,

finishing up his trail to first class after attending everything the troop has offered since joining 8 months ago.

He's been elected patrol leader of the new scout patrol, and is very excited and active with a dozen merit badges under his belt. Hes got excellent scout skills and spent last night teaching lashings.

 

Going to suggest some "harder" and "a bit more school-like" Eagle required merit badges I guess. He's got swimming under his belt already.

[CalicoPenn]

There's no reason to even think about alternative requirements. First, alternative requirements can only be used if the disability is of a permanent basis. In this situation, the disability isn't permanent so you can just skip that whole part.

 

But as you pointed out, there is a modifier to the requirement - if a lad is in a wheelchair or on crutches, or otherwise has difficulty getting around, then the lad can do a Trip rather than a Hike or Ride. That's certainly appropriate in this case - the lad is presumably on crutches (or in a wheelchair) and is definitely having difficulty getting around. Letting him complete the requirement as a "trip" is NOT getting around the requirement - the modification is written specifically for situations just like this - temporary disabilities.

 

So what is the purpose? Look at the whole requirement, and how the requirement is subgrouped. Note the emphasis on learning map and compass skills, then utilizing map and compass skills. This requirement isn't about fitness, it's not about getting a Scout to go on a 5-mile Hike or 10-mile Bicycle ride - it's about using a Map and Compass to successfully complete a hike/ride/trip.

 

So how does the lad do a "trip"? First, let's acknowledge that if he wasn't temporarily hobbled by his ankle issues, any hike or bike ride he would go on (just as pretty much every Scout does) is going to be on some kind of paved street/bike trail or marked hiking trail of some kind. A Scout can use a map to plan the hike or bike ride, but most are never going to be going "cross country" over unmarked paths needing extensive compass use. So think about how your scouts use the map and compass on their "normal" hikes and rides then use the same technique for a trip.

 

As for the trip - he could be hauled in a trailer behind someone else bicycling, while he navigates. He could be pushed in a wheelchair while he navigates. He could be driven in a car while he navigates (though if in a car, I think I would make the route equal a bicycle length, rather than a hike length). He could be carried on the backs of fellow Scouts while he navigates. He could be pulled in a wagon while he navigates. He could be hauled around in a sedan chair while he navigates. I hope the common word is hopping out at you - navigates. That's what this requirement is all about - navigating.

[qwazse]

What I did for one boy with a permanent disability was circle the locations of a half-dozen geocaches on a map and went with him and his dad to find them using map and compass. Dad drove, he was the navigator, I was along for the ride (and to calibrate my new GPS). He figured out where to park, and walked us (as best he could) to the spot on the map where the cache was. In the process we measured some distances and heights of things.

 

Alternate requirements do not require council approval, and you may interpret them to the letter. So if "permanent" is not stated, you are not obligated to require it. That's not circumvention, that's following. All those who disagree can appeal to national to change the wording in the next revision.

 

I would still talk to the DAC about what has been done in your council because you don't want to make a decision for the boy and then at his next district event he meets a bunch of boys-in-casts who were treated differently.

 

And if the boy feels like it would be circumvention, don't do it! His opinion is worth dozens of ours! Who cares if he's PL for 5 months and it doesn't count for rank advancement?

 

Does he have all his shooting sports MB's? This could be the right time to perfect those skills.

 

P.S. - You are going to sign our usernames on his cast for us, right?

[Basementdweller]

Is this your son we are talking about, because it does make a difference.

 

Answering your OP's question.

 

do you have to have a permanent disability to use the starred alternative requirement?

Yes, the intent was to assist the TRULY disabled and several posters have posted info copied from the source.

 

 

what if the scout ends up being limited in his hiking ability for longer than a few months?

There are other things he can work on, again whats the rush. It still is not a permanent disability. he is probably 11 years old......so what if he doesn't get his eagle at 13.

 

 

would you make him wait a certain amount of time before considering the trip instead of hike??

He is a young man and if he is healthy that ankle should heal in a very short period. I would not change the requirement. Now in a year if he truly is still having a problem I would consider a modification of the requirement as Q suggested. But only after a substantial wait.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Okay, never broke my ankle before, so I cannot say I know whats in store for this boy...but...

 

Does he use crutches at school? If he does, then I have to ask this:

 

What defines a hike? Rough terrain, up and down a hill? Over the hills and through te woods?

 

Or can it be flat ground or steps?

 

See, I am thinking that this scout , a parent, and maybe the SM or an ASM could just set aside an entire saturday and maybe drive 5 miles away from the unit or the scouts houise. Put on his backpack and toss in some atyer, gatoraide and some snakcks.

 

And start walking at your own pace.

 

Give encouragement, but be supportive. THis scout might surprise you and himself.

[Stosh]

I'm with Scoutfish on this one. If someone wants something bad enough and they reach deep enough inside, they can even surprise themselves with what they can accomplish. It's human spirit to overcome some pretty "impossible" barriers.

 

And what says that the whole patrol can give it a try with crutches. It might go a long way in helping the boys understand the difficulties handicapped people face every day of their lives.

 

5 miles isn't really all that far and if one starts first thing in the morning, they ought to be able to finish it by sundown. It's not a race. It's an experiment in self-character awareness.

 

Stosh

[Adam S]

It has been stated in pieces by several people but the full answer regarding alternate requirements can be found at http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/earlyalt.aspx

 

Bottom line, Permenant Disability and only with the approval of the Advancement committee.

 

That said unless he is time crunched for Eagle, I would not sweat it. His health should come first!

[ScoutNut]

The 2009 Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures book states the same thing as the National web site that Adam S posted a link to.

 

Alternate requirements for T-2-1 are for disabilities that are permanent, not temporary.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

5 miles isn't very far at all.

 

I figure that the average person walks at a pace of about 2 to 2.5 miles per hour. I probably walk 3 MPH because of my long legged gait( I'm 6'2" tall). So I'm guessing that a scout could do it in 3 hours tops.

 

With crutches? I'd guess 3 1/2 to 5 hours depending on how sore his arms and armpitts are due to the crutches.

 

[Engineer61]

He should be sitting out the hiking and biking (and canoeing) until cleared for the specific activity by his Dr. (NOT A "you can walk on it at school").

 

Growth plate fractures are not your typical broken bone...a kid on my baseball team fractured his wrist growth plate...he was in a cast for months to make sure it healed in alignment.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[Eagle92]

Again do not push it as it will only make the problem worse. TRUST ME ON THAT ONE (and caps are for emphasis, not shouting)

 

Have him redirect his energies for the time being.

 

 

AND once he is cleared for activities, I'd bet ya Walking will be one of the exercises the MD will want him to do.

[5yearscouter]

Definitely don't want the Troop to be encouraging someone on crutches with a broken leg to be going on a 5 mile walk until released by Dr.

 

He is encouraged to put some weight on the leg and wean from the crutches soon, but that doesn't mean he can transport himself 5 miles without aggravating his armpits and his good leg. Getting around on crutches is not so easy as some of the prior posters seem to think-- just getting around school on crutches thru a whole day can be very difficult.

 

Even once released to resume normal activities, it's not a good idea to go from only walking around school to hiking 5 miles in short order without working up to it. Don't want scouting to be the location of a reinjury or aggravating of the situation.