It's about time that Scouting WOKE up

[Eagledad]

32 minutes ago, FireStone said:

Why would they? Parents have to fill out the form, if they're coming to a girls troop and checking the female box, that's good enough for me. 

What if the youth wants to be in the other gender program? 

Barry

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

I'm not checking birth certificates and trans youth are welcome in my troop, you think that's abuse. We're miles apart ideologically. 

I'm good with where I'm at on this, alongside the many councils that have officially expressed the same stance. 

If you think this is abuse, you probably should report it. 

Be very careful.

If, Janey (who is really Jimmy) is in a tent with Jenny, and Jenny's parents do not know that Janey is Jimmy, then if Jimmy's jimmy gets seen by Jenny, then you may have a law suit on your hands.

And when they subpoena your computer, this thread may be used against you for damages.

You'd best inform all parents involved, and allow them to determine what is best for their youngsters.

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Be very careful.

If, Janey (who is really Jimmy) is in a tent with Jenny, and Jenny's parents do not know that Janey is Jimmy, then if Jimmy's jimmy gets seen by Jenny, then you may have a law suit on your hands.

And when they subpoena your computer, this thread may be used against you for damages.

You'd best inform all parents involved, and allow them to determine what is best for their youngsters.

I can't tell the motive, but Inquisitivescout points out rightly the risk of being all things to all scouts in this culture. Especially in a program where camping is the arena.

What I find fascinating is that both sides of the cultural spectrum believe theirs is the best approach for the growth and maturity of youth going into adulthood.

Barry

[InquisitiveScouter]

37 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I can't tell the motive, but Inquisitivescout points out rightly the risk of being all things to all scouts in this culture. Especially in a program where camping is the arena.

What I find fascinating is that both sides of the cultural spectrum believe theirs is the best approach for the growth and maturity of youth going into adulthood.

Barry

Here is my motive:

I have my own opinions, but I would never foist them on the rest of the Troop.

In January 2017, when BSA said they would allow transgender boys in the program, we presented the issue to the Chartered Organization (CO).  The CO (in their regular meeting with the Institution Head (IH)) said they would fully support allowing transgender boys in Troop, but they left the decision up to the parents and the leaders who are doing the job.  We then had an "all hands" meeting with parents.  About 35 attended, out of  70ish.  We presented the choice to them, and the decision was unanimous... we would not accept transgender boys into the Troop, as this did not align with the way they wanted their boys raised and educated.  (In back room discussions, several families let me know that if the group chose to accept them, they would leave Scouting.)

In October 2017, when the opportunity arose to create a separate girls Troop (starting 01 February 2019), we presented our CO with the option.  The CO (in their regular meeting with the IH) said they would fully support a girls Troop.  We then had another "all hands" meeting with parents.  About 35 attended, out of  70ish (basically the same folks).  We presented the choice to them of

1.  Remain a boy only Troop

2. Start a girls Troop and share "committees" and gear for support

3. Keep boys and girls programs and support separate (if someone else started a girls Troop there)

They chose #1.

Last fall/winter, after BSA ended the "pilot" mixed Troop, and gave the option for Troops to be combined, we, once again, informed our CO of the development.  Once again, the CO gave support, but deferred to the Troop adults actually doing the work, and parents whose responsibility it it to safeguard their child's upbringing.  Once again, we met with parents.  And, once again, they chose to remain a boy only Troop.

Our parents run the spectrum from left to right.  When the decisions actually "hit home", and would affect their won sons, it was amazing that, unanimously, they chose to go the way they did.  Their was no dissent, and no one felt offended nor decided to leave the Troop because of these decisions.

I stick to the program, and let parents make well-informed choices for their Scouts.  They all appreciate the transparency, and the acknowledgement that others may believe differently.

Although it has not happened, our collective approach, if a transgender boy applied to our unit, would be to welcome them to Scouting, but steer them to another Troop more suited to their situation.  (And we have good rapport with that other Troop.)

Our Scout Executive was perfectly fine with this approach.

Edited 2 hours ago by InquisitiveScouter

[Eagledad]

12 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Here is my motive:

I have my own opinions, but I would never foist them on the rest of the Troop..................................................................................................

Well done.

Barry

[FireStone]

2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Be very careful.

If, Janey (who is really Jimmy) is in a tent with Jenny, and Jenny's parents do not know that Janey is Jimmy, then if Jimmy's jimmy gets seen by Jenny, then you may have a law suit on your hands.

Why would I have a lawsuit on my hands? I'm just doing what my Council is doing, we're continuing to sign up kids and not checking birth certificates. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

Why would I have a lawsuit on my hands? I'm just doing what my Council is doing, we're continuing to sign up kids and not checking birth certificates. 

Google is your friend... and so is your legal counsel.  Key in on "negligence and failure to supervise" in the results below.

Exposure could be ruled as abuse in many states.  YMMV.  Again, check with legal counsel in your state.

As it would most likely be a civil case, there'd be a jury.  So, it would ultimately be up to them.

I underlined a pertinent point in there...  I wholeheartedly believe a jury would see it as unreasonable on your part that you did not inform the minor's parents about the situation before any "damage" was done.

I urge you to let the parents in your unit know (tactfully and discreetly) if there is a transgender child in the Troop, and allow them to decide the best course of action for their own child.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Who Can Be Held Liable in These Cases?

If a child was abused by another child, most state laws allow a civil claim against the people or organizations that had a duty to protect them. These third-party claims focus on negligence and failure to supervise.

Potential defendants may include:

• Parents or legal guardians of the offending child
  If the parents knew their child posed a risk and failed to intervene, they may be held liable for failing to properly supervise or control their child’s behavior.
• Schools or teachers
  If the abuse happened at school or during school-related activities, the district may be liable for failing to supervise students, ignoring red flags, or allowing risky situations to occur.
• Daycare providers or babysitters
  These individuals and facilities have a legal duty to monitor children in their care. Allowing unsupervised contact, ignoring warning signs, or failing to act on complaints can result in civil liability.
• Churches, camps, or youth programs
  Any organization that oversees group activities for children must ensure that their staff follow clear guidelines for supervision and safety. Failing to separate children with behavioral issues or allowing unsafe environments may be grounds for a lawsuit.
• Therapists or counselors
  In rare cases, a professional who knew about harmful behaviors but did not report or address them may also face liability.

What Must Be Proven in a Civil Claim?

To succeed in a civil case involving peer-to-peer abuse, the legal team must show that the defendant acted negligently. This means proving that they failed to act in a way that a reasonable person or organization would have under similar circumstances.

Examples of negligence may include:

• Leaving children unsupervised in restrooms, locker rooms, or private areas
• Ignoring reports or behavioral red flags about a child’s aggressive or sexual conduct
• Failing to separate children after an initial incident
• Not following school or program safety policies
• Failing to notify parents or law enforcement after a report

Each case depends on the specific facts, including the age of the children involved, the setting, and whether adults had an opportunity to intervene.

How Are These Cases Handled in Court?

Courts treat these cases with care and seriousness. The goal is to protect the survivor while examining whether any adult or institution failed in their duty to provide a safe environment.

Most civil cases involving minors are handled confidentially. Protective orders may be issued to keep the names of the children private. If the case moves forward, the court may appoint a guardian ad litem to represent the survivor’s best interests.

Damages in these cases can include:

• Medical and mental health treatment
• Emotional pain and suffering
• Educational support or school changes
• Long-term therapy or trauma recovery services
• Punitive damages in cases of severe negligence

Can These Cases Be Resolved Without a Trial?

Yes. Many civil cases involving child abuse settle out of court. This can provide families with a resolution that includes financial support, institutional changes, or formal apologies without requiring a full trial.

Attorneys works with families to decide the best course of action. Some prefer to pursue a public case to raise awareness, while others seek a private resolution focused on healing. 

Taking Action After Peer-to-Peer Abuse

If your child has been harmed by another child, it is completely normal to feel overwhelmed and unsure about what steps to take next. These situations are emotionally complex and often come with a mix of shock, confusion, anger, and grief. Parents may question how this could happen, whether anyone noticed warning signs, and what can be done to protect their child moving forward.

In many cases, families also struggle with silence. Schools, camps, or organizations may downplay the incident or attempt to resolve the matter quietly. Meanwhile, your child may be dealing with trauma, fear, or shame that makes it difficult for them to talk about what happened. You may feel alone in advocating for their safety and healing.