It's about time that Scouting WOKE up

[TeamOutsider]

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

HUGELY AGREE ... I almost wish there was a opt-out if we know the scout already had it covered in school.  ...  Wasting scout's time kill the program.   ... Doing a MB on a topic covered in school makes scouting look 2nd rate (and wastes the scout's time).   ... Citz of society was the 5th badge if you count Family Life as Citizenship in the Family.  ... There are just too many class room badges and not enough active badges. 

I get the sentiment of the opt-out idea, but in practice it's not a great idea.  It would be abused.

Also... if it's covered in school - it should be that much easier to knock it out for Scouts, and the refresher doesn't hurt to know that "An Eagle definitely covered this topic".  That's my $0.02.

[Eagle1993]

1 hour ago, TeamOutsider said:

I get the sentiment of the opt-out idea, but in practice it's not a great idea.  It would be abused.

Also... if it's covered in school - it should be that much easier to knock it out for Scouts, and the refresher doesn't hurt to know that "An Eagle definitely covered this topic".  That's my $0.02.

I don't know of any kid who goes through school that sees any value add in Citz in Nation or World. Both are covered many times in 6th through 12th grade.  Citizenship in Community provides value and is often missed in school. Citizenship in home (family life) could continue.  So go from 5 (world, nation, society, community and home) to 2.  Then add in Wilderness Survival and a shooting sport as Eagle required.

[TeamOutsider]

51 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I don't know of any kid who goes through school that sees any value add in Citz in Nation or World. Both are covered many times in 6th through 12th grade.  Citizenship in Community provides value and is often missed in school. Citizenship in home (family life) could continue.  So go from 5 (world, nation, society, community and home) to 2.  Then add in Wilderness Survival and a shooting sport as Eagle required.

I'm a "Life for Life" that got to 19 MBs.  The primary ones I missed were the Citz in Com/Nat/Wrld.   If you had your way, I'd probably be an Eagle today, but I still respectfully disagree with you.  When I review those requirements now as an adult - I disagree that I got the same experience in high school (which I did finish).  I did not:

Citizenship in the Community:

- learn the history of my community (req 1)
- "Attend an in-person meeting of your city, town, or county council or school board, local court session; OR another state or local governmental meeting approved in advance by your counselor. " (req 2)
- "volunteer at least eight hours".... at a" charitable organizations outside of Scouting" (req 7)
- "Develop a public presentation (such as a video, slide show, speech, digital presentation, or photo exhibit) about important and unique aspects of your community" (req 8. )

...and that's just the 1st of those badges.

I'm happy to drop it and agree to disagree - but my experience has been different from yours, and I believe there's value in all 3 of the current Citz. MB's.

Edit:  After I posted this on a re-read, I want to acknowledge you did say "Citizenship in Community provides value and is often missed in school".  So we're at least in agreement on that.  Thank you.

Edited 10 hours ago by TeamOutsider

[yknot]

5 hours ago, TeamOutsider said:

I get the sentiment of the opt-out idea, but in practice it's not a great idea.  It would be abused.

Also... if it's covered in school - it should be that much easier to knock it out for Scouts, and the refresher doesn't hurt to know that "An Eagle definitely covered this topic".  That's my $0.02.

I think this is one of the problems with scouts. Adults are more oriented towards what kids "should" know and "should" do vs. what they want to do, or they are  stuck on nostalgia for the way things used to be for them -- how they experienced it, how they led it.  As the outdoors program continues to wane in importance and variety, adults are boring youth out of the organization.

[TeamOutsider]

2 hours ago, yknot said:

I think this is one of the problems with scouts. Adults are more oriented towards what kids "should" know and "should" do vs. what they want to do, or they are  stuck on nostalgia for the way things used to be for them -- how they experienced it, how they led it.  As the outdoors program continues to wane in importance and variety, adults are boring youth out of the organization.

Sounds like you're saying they need to change the stated Mission and Vision of the org:

"Scouting America will prepare every eligible youth in America **to become a responsible, participating citizen** and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law."

https://www.scouting.org/legal/mission

It's fine if you think that, but understand Citizenship is a CORE part of the Vision, so it's a MAJOR suggested change. 

Edited 5 hours ago by TeamOutsider

[Eagle1993]

2 hours ago, TeamOutsider said:

Sounds like you're saying they need to change the stated Mission and Vision of the org:

"Scouting America will prepare every eligible youth in America **to become a responsible, participating citizen** and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law."

https://www.scouting.org/legal/mission

It's fine if you think that, but understand Citizenship is a CORE part of the Vision, so it's a MAJOR suggested change. 

You can do this through means other than sitting and discussing or visiting web pages.  The issue is that as constructed, the program continues to add Eagle required MBs that are classroom style, including Citizenship in the Society.  

Just look at UK scouts, many of their requirements begin with take part in....  Compare to BSA citizenship badges.

I've been scoutmaster for over 15 Eagle Scouts, my dad is Eagle, I'm and Eagle Scout, my son is an Eagle Scout.  Overall, I believe in the program but we need more focus on aspects of the program that make unique and less on being school 2.0

 

[yknot]

3 hours ago, TeamOutsider said:

Sounds like you're saying they need to change the stated Mission and Vision of the org

Nope

3 hours ago, TeamOutsider said:

It's fine if you think that, but understand Citizenship is a CORE part of the Vision, so it's a MAJOR suggested change. 

Citizenship was taught pretty well for decades primarily in the outdoors