What?? You've Got to Be Kidding Me with These Membership Numbers!

[Eagle94-A1]

17 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

It is always best to go to the source:

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/2026-NCAP-Standards-v2.pdf

Standard number SA-001, pages 25 - 29.

 

I see now that day camp is at least 2 days now.  when NCAP started, that wasn't the case, and a district single day activity, like PWD, had to follow NCAP.

 

[mrjohns2]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I see now that day camp is at least 2 days now.  when NCAP started, that wasn't the case, and a district single day activity, like PWD, had to follow NCAP.

When NCAP started, day activity like PWD had to follow NCAP? What year was that? Are you sure? It is only like 5 years or so that camporees and OA weekends had to follow NCAP and brought about the "Short Term Camp Administrator" concept. That was a big shock to people.

[Eagle94-A1]

Circa 2012 to 2014.

[Tron]

On 1/5/2026 at 8:00 PM, mrjohns2 said:

NCAP does not cover day events. Day Camp? Yes. Day activities? No. Hasn't in the last 8 years I have been involved. It covers: day camps (2 days or longer using council retained leadership), long term camp (4 nights or more with council retained leadership), and short term camp (1-3 nights with council retained leadership / program). It does not cover a day event. It hasn't. No change in 8 years.

 

On 1/6/2026 at 2:12 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

I see now that day camp is at least 2 days now.  when NCAP started, that wasn't the case, and a district single day activity, like PWD, had to follow NCAP.

 

You guys have to be careful here. A "day camp" is also an event that 1 day but "recurring". So say you have a 1 day skills tournament district event. If you repeat that within the same calendar year months apart and with a different name but exactly the same "whatever" it is now a "day camp" and must follow NCAP. 

Like I said, there is a lot of gray area out there and there are too many 22 year olds that can pivot to a different career and nothing worth a lick out there making decisions and spouting non-sense. 

[mrjohns2]

On 1/8/2026 at 8:46 PM, Tron said:

You guys have to be careful here. A "day camp" is also an event that 1 day but "recurring". So say you have a 1 day skills tournament district event. If you repeat that within the same calendar year months apart and with a different name but exactly the same "whatever" it is now a "day camp" and must follow NCAP. 

Care to point out where it is defined this way? 

[mrjohns2]

On 1/8/2026 at 8:46 PM, Tron said:

You guys have to be careful here. A "day camp" is also an event that 1 day but "recurring". So say you have a 1 day skills tournament district event. If you repeat that within the same calendar year months apart and with a different name but exactly the same "whatever" it is now a "day camp" and must follow NCAP. 

It took me a bit, but I found the part that defines this situation. Your description is not accurate as the gap would be >5 days. The council could define it as a "day camp" or not if the gap is 5 days or more. 

"Except for day camps as provided below, a camp is an overnight program . In determining the length of a camp, count all nights where any participants (other than staff) are present with substantially the same camp leadership or camp staff, regardless of what the camp is called, unless there is a gap of five or more nights between sessions . Camp includes the following classifications: 1 . Day camps . A day camp is a council-organized program designed for Scouts for two or more days, under council-retained leadership at an approved site with no overnight . The program may operate at age-appropriate Cub Scout, Scouts BSA, Venturer, or Sea Scout level . A council may choose to treat a one-day event (without an overnight) as a day camp."

[Tron]

On 1/10/2026 at 10:14 AM, mrjohns2 said:

It took me a bit, but I found the part that defines this situation. Your description is not accurate as the gap would be >5 days. The council could define it as a "day camp" or not if the gap is 5 days or more. 

"Except for day camps as provided below, a camp is an overnight program . In determining the length of a camp, count all nights where any participants (other than staff) are present with substantially the same camp leadership or camp staff, regardless of what the camp is called, unless there is a gap of five or more nights between sessions . Camp includes the following classifications: 1 . Day camps . A day camp is a council-organized program designed for Scouts for two or more days, under council-retained leadership at an approved site with no overnight . The program may operate at age-appropriate Cub Scout, Scouts BSA, Venturer, or Sea Scout level . A council may choose to treat a one-day event (without an overnight) as a day camp."

Yeah yeah yeah; you found it right? You found one of the gray areas. You have to be careful, there is so much gray area; this stuff doesn't mix well with 22 year old professional scouters just trying to not get fired while they pay off their college loans. 

[jcousino]

How true or Scout execs looking to keep key volunteers happy.

[Eagle94-A1]

17 hours ago, Tron said:

Yeah yeah yeah; you found it right? You found one of the gray areas. You have to be careful, there is so much gray area; this stuff doesn't mix well with 22 year old professional scouters just trying to not get fired while they pay off their college loans. 

I resembled that remark.

 

[PACAN]

Can we split this topic into the two things people are posting about?

 

my friend sent me numbers for December.  Total membership around 877k.

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, PACAN said:

Can we split this topic into the two things people are posting about?

Yes

 

1 hour ago, PACAN said:

my friend sent me numbers for December.  Total membership around 877k.

To quote the grandfather in  PRINCESS BRIDE, "Wait, just wait." The "official" December 2025 number will be out in a few weeks. Still we are down from last year 

[Tron]

On 1/19/2026 at 6:57 AM, PACAN said:

Can we split this topic into the two things people are posting about?

 

my friend sent me numbers for December.  Total membership around 877k.

I think that is the Dec 31st number. I saw a Jan 3rd(ish) number that was 40 or 50k lower. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

Yes, the 31 December 2025 number of "Total Unit-Based" is 877,403.  If you included Learning for Life numbers, then the total youth served by Scouting America programs on 31 Dec 2025 was 907,950.

The 31 Dec 2024 Unit-Based number was 956,541.  So, that one year period change was a loss of 79,138 Scouts, or an 8.27% loss from the Dec 2024 numbers.

Current number reporting today (Unit-Based only) is 837,145.

There have been numerous problems with online registrations, particularly if families delayed...  If the unit charter lapsed, families were blocked from renewing registrations.  I imagine we will be seeing a cleanup of that boondoggle through March. 

So, my gut tells me the 837K number is low.  If accurate, it would mean a loss 40K Scouts since end of 2025. (Another loss of 4.56% of membership.) 

[Eagle94-A1]

Historically, the end of year numbers have always come out in March, as they have had rechartering issues in the past too. I remember one pack that had paperwork issues, was "dropped," and then reappear with their membership numbers magically added to the end of year numbers once the charter was completed.

I hope I am wrong, but I do not think we will reach 975,672 (2% growth) for 2025 when everything is said and done. I do not think we will suddenly find 68,534 members.

[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, my gut tells me the 837K number is low.  If accurate, it would mean a loss 40K Scouts since end of 2025. (Another loss of 4.56% of membership.) 

Many councils have December 31st as the last day of a unit's charter year. That is so that those units that fold, and members that drop, are considered in the end of year tally. The 837,145 number is probably correct.