How to Upset your Volunteers

[Mrjeff 248]

Unless you have a direct line number all you will get is an answering machine and maybe an email.

[AwakeEnergyScouter 247]

I see a lot of frustration with especially nationals on these forums, and if this is typical then I suppose I'm on the road to posting frustrated posts myself one day.

You would think that people getting paid to administrate would have time to respond. I totally get why other volunteers might be slow. But isn't a core part of the value proposition for paid staff more attentive work?

[5thGenTexan 504]

39 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

I see a lot of frustration with especially nationals on these forums, and if this is typical then I suppose I'm on the road to posting frustrated posts myself one day.

You would think that people getting paid to administrate would have time to respond. I totally get why other volunteers might be slow. But isn't a core part of the value proposition for paid staff more attentive work?

Paid folks care about asking for money and numbers.  They also excel at telling you how great things are based on money and numbers.  "Lipstick on a Pig"

I have learned to figure it out on my own and not expect any assistance from District, Council, or National.   (I did have one experience with the Council Advancement Chair once,... we spoke on the phone for almost an hour over an issue)

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

19 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

I don't have much experience with either BSA councils or national yet, but neither have responded to emails I've sent requesting information, offering help, or making requests other than when a CC started the conversation.

Maybe they're busy. Maybe not. Either way it's not clear that they are reachable.

Email them telling them you want to know how to donate $1000.  They'll get back to you really fast 😜

Of course, when they get back to you, you then ask your questions.  When they ask about the money, just say, "Oh, I wanted to know HOW to make a donation so, in the future, if I should decide to do so, I'll know how.   Thanks!"

Edited April 7, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[mrjohns2 582]

7 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Email them telling them you want to know how to donate $1000.  They'll get back to you really fast

My current council? Yes. Very good about it. 

My later father’s council? Not at all. After the very poor experience I had with them, I said they should never be surprised why their endowment is short of funds.  I will never be surprised why they sold our beloved camp. 

[Better4itall 26]

Just read through this subtopic. Sad but in a way re-assuring as well since it sounds like most councils have become increasingly insular and funding focused. I've been spending more time looking at WOSM Scouting movements and it's heartening to see growth, involvement, and positive directions. I am hopeful that even if BSA continues in its inwardly focused path that Scouting as a world movement will continue.

[AwakeEnergyScouter 247]

That seems like a good summary of the situation. The BSA is looking inward, but not necessarily in a fruitful way, while the movement continues elsewhere. 

It would seem that the BSA needs to raise windhorse, the feeling of effortless flow one has when one is engrossed in a task one is doing. To raise windhorse, you first have to be present, not in the past or future. It seems the past is the problem for BSA. The past certainly needs examination, but you can't fruitfully try to live there. Eventually BSA will collectively snap out of it, but the question is whether it will be in time to prevent the organization becoming severely decimated. Youth who want to build a better world aren't going to be drawn to an organization that's navelgazing and constantly talking about the past.

[HICO_Eagle 93]

On 11/1/2022 at 3:25 AM, SiouxRanger said:

I know many folks who have turned to making their contributions to the Movement by making gifts in kind, instead of cash, and one person who changed their entire estate plan to the tune of about a million, and another of $750,000.

Councils do not see the folks whose contributions are changed from Boy Scouts to other charities.  The councils never knew of the potential bequests, and never hear that the BSA has been dropped as a beneficiary.

Immeasurable Phantom Losses.

Two councils were significant beneficiaries in my will before I retired from Scouting, the council I grew up in as a youth and the council I spent the bulk of my time working with as an adult.  I served on the Shooting Sports Committee as well as being an ASM in my troop and teaching at UoS.

When I retired from Scouting because I didn't like the direction the program was heading, I changed my will.  Those bequests are now directed toward other organizations I trust.

 

On 11/1/2022 at 6:57 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

As for donations of any kind, I do not know anyone at the unit level who is contributing to FOS. Many units no longer buy supplies from the local council, instead going to two nearby, and closer, out of council stores.

Understatement. I know two large contributors who have stopped supporting Scouting altogether, and I would not doubt changed their wills. Another donor is only making contributions to a specific event. His goal is to cut registration so that as many Scouts can go to it as possible.

I made some significant donations to the local camp and paid for some overdue maintenance at the council HQ.  I did it that way because 1) I didn't want National taxing the council for my donations and 2) I wanted to know exactly what my donations went towards.  Generally, I would ask the camp director or the SE what one item fell below their budget cut line that they wished they'd had funds for and then I'd pay for the item directly.

When we had the national ammunition shortfall (before I'd retired from Scouting) and it looked like we might have to cancel shooting sports for the summer, the NRA worked out a special deal to get a production run of .22 LR ammunition for a special price.  The Shooting Sports Committee chair and I approached the new Camp Director and told him how much ammunition he needed for the summer, what the costs would be, and what he should do to make the program not only pay for itself but help subsidize some of the other activities.

I then made him an offer:  since I only saw ammunition prices increasing from there and the prospect of future shortages arising, I said I would pay for an additional year's worth of ammunition but it needed to be maintained as a rotating stockpile, i.e., he needed to continue to order ammunition to replenish the store so they wouldn't have to worry about national shortfalls again.  He accepted the deal gratefully and we got the ammo in to keep the program on track for that summer and had a hedge for the future.

I think the year after when we got a new SE, he refused to order replenishment ammunition, using up the stockpile I'd bought for him so that he made the camp financials look better that summer and paid for other programs that were incurring losses.  At that point, I lost faith in the new SE and the council and bade my farewells.

TL;DR:  Council staff looked at their short term numbers and lost a long-term contributor of time, energy, AND funds.

[Better4itall 26]

Surprise demands on volunteers. So I went to our District Roundtable tonight and the subject was school recruiting, sign up nights. And our district executive told us that he had been instructed by his boss to tell attendees that if a unit information form was not completed and turned in this evening that they would not be able to recruit at any schools with a deadline of tomorrow morning. Less than 1/4 of the district was present at the roundtable, and everyone there scurried to complete the damn form, but what was it all about? The poor DE could only say "this is how we know that you are ready to accept new members." and when pressed, he couldn't say anything more than "you need to have a program in place". What was this all about? Does this council not realize that that the volunteers they are threatening are the foundation of their organization? Let's see how quickly we can crush a once thriving movement for the advancement of character and values by subverting it to job preservation. Please pardon if this sounds  like a rant, but it is. 

[OaklandAndy 70]

7 hours ago, Better4itall said:

Surprise demands on volunteers. So I went to our District Roundtable tonight and the subject was school recruiting, sign up nights. And our district executive told us that he had been instructed by his boss to tell attendees that if a unit information form was not completed and turned in this evening that they would not be able to recruit at any schools with a deadline of tomorrow morning. Less than 1/4 of the district was present at the roundtable, and everyone there scurried to complete the damn form, but what was it all about? The poor DE could only say "this is how we know that you are ready to accept new members." and when pressed, he couldn't say anything more than "you need to have a program in place". What was this all about? Does this council not realize that that the volunteers they are threatening are the foundation of their organization? Let's see how quickly we can crush a once thriving movement for the advancement of character and values by subverting it to job preservation. Please pardon if this sounds  like a rant, but it is. 

It's amazing how the burden they put on volunteers is somehow justifiable to them. I understand they have a job to do and they are paid employees, but you would think paid employees would be more knowledgeable and show up to the events across the council in their respective districts. 

[SSScout 1615]

This is what happens  when the CEOs you hire have a Genral Motors  mindset.  The DE here, if not everywhere, is rated (judged?) on her/his performance.  NUMBERS, we need numbers.    If not new Scouts, then at least the APPEARANCE of possible new Scouts, which morphs into seeing efforts made, which means a piece of paper that indicates an effort  (recruitment at a public place?) was made, at the behest (must not just be the Scouter, god forbid) of the DE. Lord knows, the good DE is way underpaid and (if they are true to their calling) over worked. 

I attended the RT once upon a time, met our new DE, who spoke wonderfully of his image of Scouting (he'd been one! What a concept!),  and encouraged us to keep up the good work.  Three months later (3!) , I was at RT and it was announced we would have anew DE next month....  That next week, I was at work in my bus depot, and was asked to lead a tour of new  administrative personnel.... Sonofagun, here is DE #1.  Took him aside later and we talked. He said he could not countenance the work environment in the BSA,  it wasn't Scouting, it was Bureacracy...  Here, at least in the county service, the Buracracy was defined as such.   He wanted to do SCOUTING for Scouts, not be a cog in a not so well oiled machine.   Bear in mind, this was 20 plus years ago....  

Tell you about the next DE, who was asked once a question of Scout Advancement, and responded, "Oh, I have people who can deal with that". Guess who he thought were his "People"? 

[OaklandAndy 70]

Good District Executive's rarely stay. I like how our council relies heavily on volunteer input when it comes to decision-making. Very seldom do they make a decision without volunteer approval/input. As a volunteer, I'm on my 3rd DE in the short 5 years I've been doing this. I've also heard that some volunteers are the reason why DE's leave. They try to create a relationship, but instead get blamed when things go South and the council backs the volunteer instead of the DE. Playing devil's advocate, volunteering takes a lot of planning and some just show up and expect it to be done or wait until the last minute and the event is a disaster. Planning it out and watching it in action is all part of the fun! Plus, you can't beat the looks on the Scout's face when they achieve something spectacular. Being a DE is not easy, but neither is volunteering. 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

10 hours ago, Better4itall said:

Surprise demands on volunteers.... Does this council not realize that that the volunteers they are threatening are the foundation of their organization? Let's see how quickly we can crush a once thriving movement for the advancement of character and values by subverting it to job preservation. Please pardon if this sounds  like a rant, but it is. 

Sadly some councils do not give a fig for the volunteers. And when the volunteers stop working on the district level, they wonder why.

1 hour ago, OaklandAndy said:

Good District Executive's rarely stay.

Between the long hours, lousy pay, horrible managers, and stress it an cause, both health wise and family wise,  it is not worth it. And most can find private sector jobs that can double their salaries. One former coworker actually tripled his DE salary when he left.

1 hour ago, OaklandAndy said:

 I like how our council relies heavily on volunteer input when it comes to decision-making. Very seldom do they make a decision without volunteer approval/input.

 Be thankful. Some councils will have their professional staff ignore your input, yell, scream, curse you out, or remove you from your position (if you do not quit first) for having a view that does not align with the pros. We got some new professionals, and they are scratching their heads as to why no one will volunteer to be on the district level. There may be some hope, albeit a fools hope. New pro is a former volunteer, and when talking about some of the issues, was shocked and disgusted at them. To paraphrase Animal Mother in FULL METAL JACKET: He talks the talk, but can he walk the walk?

1 hour ago, OaklandAndy said:

 As a volunteer, I'm on my 3rd DE in the short 5 years I've been doing this. 

That use to be the norm, despite a 3 year contract.  In my neck of the woods I am on my 4th DE within 12 months. So you  are doing great.

1 hour ago, OaklandAndy said:

I've also heard that some volunteers are the reason why DE's leave. They try to create a relationship, but instead get blamed when things go South and the council backs the volunteer instead of the DE. 

I have never seen volunteers be the reason why DEs leave, and I have been around a while. In fact when I was a pro, all of my coworkers left for the same reason: the horrible management creating unrealistic goals. The volunteers were one of the few good things about the job.

As for council backing the volunteer over the professional, I have seen it once, and that was because the volunteer was a big donor. Donor's son was caught stealing at camp and sent home by the camp director. CD's boss made him reinstate him on camp staff. Fortunately he was moved into a position where he no longer had the opportunity to steal, plus everyone watched him like a hawk.