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Major Changes Announced -- Councils Impacted

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3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Most of the really good, conscientious, dedicated-to-the-movement professionals (DE's) I have met over the years, got disillusioned or burned out, then left.  I understand this is a common thing, but have no data to back it up.  What is the turnover rate for DE's??

 

over 50% will leave before 6 months. I'm not sure how many more will last the rest of the year

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1 minute ago, carebear3895 said:

over 50% will leave before 6 months. I'm not sure how many more will last the rest of the year

What does that fact alone say about the organization?

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

@carebear3895, congratulations on your promotion!

lol, thanks....i guess. It WAS NOT recent, in case anybody was wondering. I just haven't updated the patch on here.

Yes, I am as candid in real life as I am on here (probably why volunteers like me). It ticks off my boss, but I get the job done so it keeps the Executive Board happy. 

Edited by carebear3895

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14 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

over 50% will leave before 6 months. I'm not sure how many more will last the rest of the year

Looking at the Glasdoor or Indeed reviews for DE jobs is always sad, but funny is a depressing kind of way. 

There was one from a few months ago from Dallas (guessing circle ten) about how a bunch of people in the office were crying from the stress. I thought to myself "yea, that sounds pretty accurate"

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Mixed emotions on the Webelos program. I have found that when packs utilize it like it was meant to be, preparing them for Scouts, it keeps interested. These packs start distancing parents at events and making sure the Webelos are doing it. The Webelos are doing camping on their own or with a troop, and have the Webelos doing the work instead of the parents. Pack I was with usually did Cross Over in the December/January time frame. It was long enough for them to meet the time requirements. Plus they started doing more with the troop. Middle son's den did a join Castaway/Wilderness Survival weekend with the troop oldest was in. They had a blast. And the Scout who taught them did a VERY good job. He taught them prior to the camp out. So when they got there, the Webelos knew exactly what to do. They had shelters built, and cooking fires going before some of the Scouts! :) A couple of their shelters were so well built, over a year later, the shelters were still usable if you added a little more debris to them. And while Youngest was ready to Cross Over in December, a few of his den mates were not, and that pushed it back to February, Thank goodness he was able to visit the troop he is in a few months as a "guest."

 So I know the Webelos Program does work.

But I also know most packs are not doing it correctly. They are continuing to treat the Webelos as Tigers through Bears. They are not telling the parents to let the Webelos start doign things on their own. They do not let the Webelos camp on their own, or wait until 5th grade before camping with a troop. And when they do camp, parents are still doing everything for them.

Remember the Castaway/Wilderness Survival camp out my middle son went to above? Another pack's Weeblos also went. In fact the Scout doing the teaching had arranged with the two DLs to do joint meetings with both dens at the same time, since both met on the same nite, they would alternate lcoations for a month. Long story short, not only did the parents NOT want to have joint meetings, they didn't think the Scout had the knowledge, skills, or abilities to teach wilderness survival. Especially since one of the dads went through some survival school and got some instructor certification. So that den did their own thing When the time came, that den had a bunch of unneeded stuff they had to lug around, parents complaining the entire time. The while my son's den went right to work, the other den had no clue what to do and was goofing off, not listening to the Scout in charge. Instead of the Scouts building shelters cooking food on fires, etc they parents decided to build one giant shelter for them, and busted out a stove to cook for them. Then they left while my son's den stayed overnight. And I have seen this scenario, parents still doing stuff for their Webelos, over and over again.

So I know why people complain.

 

BUT here is the thing. When the Webelos program is done right, AND if you have an active troop, you will retain Scouts. 3 years later ALL of my son's den are still active in Scouting. Within 6 months, 1/2 the other den quit, and 3 years later only 1 is still active.

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5 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

Looking at the Glasdoor or Indeed reviews for DE jobs is always sad, but funny is a depressing kind of way. 

There was one from a few months ago from Dallas (guessing circle ten) about how a bunch of people in the office were crying from the stress. I thought to myself "yea, that sounds pretty accurate"

2 of my coworkers had nervous breakdowns due to the job. Also 3 of my coworkers, and a DE I had in another council, all had wives leave them because of the job. Heck my wife, whom I dated and was engaged to while I was a DE, after 1.5 months of marriage gave me an ultimatum: her or the job. 

One of my coworkers, who not only served in combat and was a recruiter, which is an extremely stressful job I am told. He said his time as a professional was more stressful than the 22 years he spent in the Corps.

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2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

I was very active in OA from ‘89 to ‘94. For a few years I did over 20 elections in my chapter each year. I’m back now as Scoutmaster of a girl troop.


#1 I was surprised when told about elections happening, I asked when the election team would visit my troop. The advisor laughed that there is no election team. It was up to us to find a buddy troop to swap doing elections with. All of this planning and communication came from adults. 

#2 I had to read the requirements 10x to make sure I understood it right that everyone eligible could be elected in the same year. I then read of membership issues on a national level. How could there be membership “issues” if 2x Scouts can now be elected from when I was in?

Because very few stay after their first year.  If membership means little or nothing why should they?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, carebear3895 said:

lol, thanks....i guess. It WAS NOT recent, in case anybody was wondering. I just haven't updated the patch on here.

Yes, I am as candid in real life as I am on here (probably why volunteers like me). It ticks off my boss, but I get the job done so it keeps the Executive Board happy. 

Candor cost us our best DE.  He was far and away the most popular, with the very best metrics - all categories, including No 1 - $$$$.  But was weak on groveling to our new SE.  He was respectful but would not grovel.  Asked to comment on the SE's plan to replace districts with employee-led "service teams," he said he preferred districts.  Gone.

 

That new "improved" organization has led to a very sharp decline in volunteer service.    Happily, form the SE's point-of-view, it also eliminated the knowledgeable ex officio members of the Executive Board that the District Chairs represented.  It also replaced leaders reporting to the Council President with employees reporting to the SE.  Coup.  So much for the District Operations Handbook.

Edited by TAHAWK

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There are a lot of things about @dkurtenbach's list I can agree with.  I'm not so sold on totally ditching uniforms, but I would like to do what BPSA does and just go with uniform articles that are more of a standard set available from retailers.  More affordable, and more available to most.  There's no need to keep shuffling $ making our own branded shirts/shorts/pants/hats.

 

I do think that putting a de-emphasis on AoL as a rank is necessary.  If we keep having the cub program the bling and badge program, we have no hope at all of reversing the trend of troops doing the same.  Whatever is necessary to get us back to Eagle truly being an arduous endeavor, and OA being a badge of honor and full of youth who would walk through walls for Scouting, I am in on 100%.  i've said it on several posts of late- I am all for having a smaller, leaner organization in the next 24 months, and hopeful we can rebuild from there by having a membership that is actually dedicated to Scouting, and not just full of kids and snowshoe parents that are looking for a line on their college application.  This also requires councils to stop being so membership # driven, and be willing to shut down some units that are poorly performing, and not keep thinking scorecards and lowering the bar to make everyone else trend downwards to an "average" to their level is the answer.  

 

@Eagle94-A1 has some good thoughts on Webelos- their importance, and how to let them be different than cubs while finding their way towards want when it comes to going to the next level.  One suggestion I have that might be a small step towards breaking up this AoL infatuation would be to standardize the date that all Webelos must crossover. Too many Packs today tie that crossover date to when all of their kids in the den have earned AoL.  That leaves some crossing over in January, but I've seen a few the last coupe of years that went into April.  Just make it February 1st for all- regardless if that is the "usual Pack night" or not.  If we just make it a date on a calendar for everyone, then we can work on making the entirety of the time in Webelos and the thirst for what is next as the right emphasis.   

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Mixed emotions on the Webelos program. I have found that when packs utilize it like it was meant to be, preparing them for Scouts, it keeps interested. These packs start distancing parents at events and making sure the Webelos are doing it. The Webelos are doing camping on their own or with a troop, and have the Webelos doing the work instead of the parents. Pack I was with usually did Cross Over in the December/January time frame. It was long enough for them to meet the time requirements. Plus they started doing more with the troop. Middle son's den did a join Castaway/Wilderness Survival weekend with the troop oldest was in. They had a blast. And the Scout who taught them did a VERY good job. He taught them prior to the camp out. So when they got there, the Webelos knew exactly what to do. They had shelters built, and cooking fires going before some of the Scouts! :) A couple of their shelters were so well built, over a year later, the shelters were still usable if you added a little more debris to them. And while Youngest was ready to Cross Over in December, a few of his den mates were not, and that pushed it back to February, Thank goodness he was able to visit the troop he is in a few months as a "guest."

 So I know the Webelos Program does work.

But I also know most packs are not doing it correctly. They are continuing to treat the Webelos as Tigers through Bears. They are not telling the parents to let the Webelos start doign things on their own. They do not let the Webelos camp on their own, or wait until 5th grade before camping with a troop. And when they do camp, parents are still doing everything for them.

Remember the Castaway/Wilderness Survival camp out my middle son went to above? Another pack's Weeblos also went. In fact the Scout doing the teaching had arranged with the two DLs to do joint meetings with both dens at the same time, since both met on the same nite, they would alternate lcoations for a month. Long story short, not only did the parents NOT want to have joint meetings, they didn't think the Scout had the knowledge, skills, or abilities to teach wilderness survival. Especially since one of the dads went through some survival school and got some instructor certification. So that den did their own thing When the time came, that den had a bunch of unneeded stuff they had to lug around, parents complaining the entire time. The while my son's den went right to work, the other den had no clue what to do and was goofing off, not listening to the Scout in charge. Instead of the Scouts building shelters cooking food on fires, etc they parents decided to build one giant shelter for them, and busted out a stove to cook for them. Then they left while my son's den stayed overnight. And I have seen this scenario, parents still doing stuff for their Webelos, over and over again.

So I know why people complain.

BUT here is the thing. When the Webelos program is done right, AND if you have an active troop, you will retain Scouts. 3 years later ALL of my son's den are still active in Scouting. Within 6 months, 1/2 the other den quit, and 3 years later only 1 is still active.

This story spells out why, when it comes to membership, all Scouting is local.  That's not region local, or council local, or district local, it is unit-by-unit local.  Units that follow the plan in detail and have an active outdoor program attract and keep Scouts.  Nothing fancy or cutting edge about the program; there doesn't need to be.  There is nothing BSA National could have done to the Troop's Castaway/Wilderness Survival weekend to get that other Webelos Den interested and active.  The problem was failure to execute the Webelos program as intended.  

Where National could help with this problem is figuring out how to get the leaders and parents who are in charge of the Webelos program to carry it out the way it is supposed to be.

 

Edited by dkurtenbach

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10 minutes ago, dkurtenbach said:

 

Where National could help with this problem is figuring out how to get the leaders and parents who are in charge of the Webelos program to carry it out the way it is supposed to be.

 

That would require paid Scouters who actually know "the way it is supposed to be."  

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1 minute ago, TAHAWK said:

That would require paid Scouters who actually know "the way it is supposed to be."  

You've got a few choices for getting Scout leaders and parents to keep the program in the lane and direction it is supposed to be going.  One way is paid Scouters.  Seems unrealistic.  Another way is indoctrination of the parents and leaders up front, followed by regular coaching and reinforcement to keep it on track.  That is BSA's model.  But it lacks the indoctrination up front and the regular coaching and reinforcement along the way.  A third approach is to provide a totally "canned" program -- specific, step-by-step and week-by-week instructions -- and remove discretion from the leaders and parents to deviate.  Even though BSA has developed and published such specific program guides, it has not required their use.  So here we are. 

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38 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

That would require paid Scouters who actually know "the way it is supposed to be."  

I'll have you know I became a fully trained Skipper since i've been in quarantine! We don't even have a ship in our Council....I'm just bored

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I saw the commercial today for the law firm compelling people to come forward to sue BSA. The commercial comes across just like all of the "Slip and Fall, Give Us a Call" law firms that advertise all the time.

People who were hurt as kids deserve compensation. I just wish the individuals responsible were the ones being punished. Not just the ones who committed the acts, but also those who participated in the coverup. 

 

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