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Eagle94-A1

Going Too Far: Online Outdoor Orientation

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@Eagle94-A1

Even though it doesn't say you can't, the course requirements still say "in an outdoor setting". I just don't understand how this is going to be allowed to fly. They should change it to "every Scout deserves a semi-trained leader"...

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30 minutes ago, jpb6583 said:

@Eagle94-A1

Even though it doesn't say you can't, the course requirements still say "in an outdoor setting". I just don't understand how this is going to be allowed to fly. They should change it to "every Scout deserves a semi-trained leader"...

I guess they can do it in their backyard.

 

 

 

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This thread reminds me of a maxim my father used to say to me. "just because you can, does not mean you should."

 

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AN OBSERVATION ABOUT THE CONSENSUS WORST SCOUTMASTER OF THE PERIOD IN THIS: "He thinks he can teach fire-building inside a building."

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16 hours ago, DuctTape said:

This thread reminds me of a maxim my father used to say to me. "just because you can, does not mean you should."

 

There was a line from the original Jurassic Park that was similar.

Ian Malcolm: Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should

 

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10 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

AN OBSERVATION ABOUT THE CONSENSUS WORST SCOUTMASTER OF THE PERIOD IN THIS: "He thinks he can teach fire-building inside a building."

but, "fire-building" has the word "building" right in it... LOL

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"Your email was shared with Scouting U from our Member Care Team.  I have reached out directly to [GRC SE] and share Scouting U's position on which trainings are not to be delivered in an online format.  While everyone is operating in the best of intentions during this unprecedented time, there are some trainings that we feel are better kept for when we can get together again in our outdoor learning environment."

I guess someone at National doesn't agree with the way they're conducting IOLS...

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Glad someone is intervening. Sad thing is, it looked as if a bunch of folks were happy to see it online and wanted to do it like that.. That scares me because BALOO and ItOLS are just that: introduction/orientation courses. I've seen Scouters who have taken those courses still have challenges on various skills.

I want my Scouts to take care of themselves, not us old fogeys. ;)

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One way a SM can stay in touch with the scouts is to send them a few " How Not To Start A Fire" Youtube videos. There are plenty out there and the scouts will be entertained. The SM can finish by saying, "Can't wait to show you fun and safe starting skills. See you soon". Could do the same with First Aid "Burns" and badly tied knots.

Barry  

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So our SE just called me a few minutes ago. Tried to sell me on how this was a good idea and "in this troubled time" this was the best way to ensure adult volunteers were properly trained. He didn't like me calling their version pencil-whipped and had nothing to say after I pointed out that page 10 of the IOLS course guide specifically says "Do not move instruction areas inside to a classroom setting. This defeats the purpose..." I think I'm going to be put on that list councils like to keep with those who rock the boat...

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21 minutes ago, jpb6583 said:

So our SE just called me a few minutes ago. Tried to sell me on how this was a good idea and "in this troubled time" this was the best way to ensure adult volunteers were properly trained. He didn't like me calling their version pencil-whipped and had nothing to say after I pointed out that page 10 of the IOLS course guide specifically says "Do not move instruction areas inside to a classroom setting. This defeats the purpose..." I think I'm going to be put on that list councils like to keep with those who rock the boat...

I personally would have zero problem moving to virtual for some of the items, like Leave no Trace instruction.  But it shouldn't be a full repalcement, just that when things become more safe you could have a shortened in-person one nighter where everyone camps Friday night and the hands on outdoors stuff like fire-building and woods tools could be done, and everyone goes home by 1:00PM on Saturday.  But, seriously, are any of us really going to think we would want our kid being supervised in a campout come fall by someone who got their trained badge from Zoom?

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If the code geeks can arrange it,  Whittlin' Chip,   Totin Chip and Fire Safety/Building might be done with Wii....

Didn't we have Smell-o-Vision and Sensarround and Cinerama some years back? And that Golfing video game?  I've even seen a bowling version and the clack of pins at the end of the alley....    Don't even need to heft a 10 pound ball.  

 

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3 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

I personally would have zero problem moving to virtual for some of the items, like Leave no Trace instruction.  But it shouldn't be a full repalcement, just that when things become more safe you could have a shortened in-person one nighter where everyone camps Friday night and the hands on outdoors stuff like fire-building and woods tools could be done, and everyone goes home by 1:00PM on Saturday.  But, seriously, are any of us really going to think we would want our kid being supervised in a campout come fall by someone who got their trained badge from Zoom?

Yeah, I find that the baloo training is a bit broad and could be condensed a bit, or handled with more stuff online. There a bit of paperwork, some generic stuff like ceremonies, etc that could be done in a remote fashion.

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First and Foremost.

THANK YOU!

Sadly I have found councils and national listen a little better when they are publicly exposed. Not always, but some times.

 

Secondly

7 hours ago, jpb6583 said:

So our SE just called me a few minutes ago. Tried to sell me on how this was a good idea and "in this troubled time" this was the best way to ensure adult volunteers were properly trained.

Does he have any experience on the unit level, whether as a Scout or volunteer? BALOO and ItOLS are just that "Orientation" and "Introduction" courses. Mastery of skills is not the goal like it use to be, but getting adults comfortable in the outdoors is the goal.  I have ran into adults who have taken these courses, and i would not trust my sons with them because even with taking these courses, they are not truly competent in the outdoors.

I would hate to see what would happen if a negligence lawsuit was ever brought up against someone who took this course

7 hours ago, jpb6583 said:

He didn't like me calling their version pencil-whipped and had nothing to say after I pointed out that page 10 of the IOLS course guide specifically says "Do not move instruction areas inside to a classroom setting. 

I thought "Feedback is a gift."

 

7 hours ago, jpb6583 said:

 I think I'm going to be put on that list councils like to keep with those who rock the boat...

Welcome to the Dark Side. No matter how frustrating it WILL get at times, remember why you are here: FOR THE SCOUTS.

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1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Welcome to the Dark Side. No matter how frustrating it WILL get at times, remember why you are here: FOR THE SCOUTS.

Eagle, so you are on the Dark Side, too??

Can't see you...because it is soooo dark here ;)

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