Summer Camps and the Coronavirus

[RememberSchiff 3683]

10 hours ago, fred8033 said:

One of the proudest traditions in our troop is that we encourage scouts to help each other setup tents.  When you are done with yours, help the next guy.  ... There is no way we could still do that and have socially distancing. 

Wear a mask when  you cannot maintain social distance.

"CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html

Scouts learn the arms length "safety circle" when using knives. Perhaps the "safety circle" should be extended from arms length to 6ft staff length?

Edited May 10, 2020 by RememberSchiff

[yknot 1338]

I don't think the message we want to send to kids is that it's OK not to social distance if you are wearing a mas. Even with N95 respirators, that supposedly protect the wearer, the "95" part represents the percentage of pathogens they are able to filter out, so it is not definitive protection.

It's a drag patrol buddies can't help with a tent but if you get to the point where you are able to safely hold a patrol camp out, other traditions will be created.

Anyone seen the campfires in a can or had any issues with them? We've used them to create the feeling of a camp fire in the backyard. It could be a way to have individual socially distanced camp fires on an overnight if sites/BSA allow them. 

 

[cgail 16]

The National Jamboree has been cancelled due to a public health crisis and children have been quarantined during periods other than that for disease outbreaks:

https://www.sj-r.com/news/20200322/springfield-history-childrens-quarantine-to-halt-polio

If you have a group of Scouts that can maintain social distancing and proper hygiene, then I marvel at your good luck.  My experience has been different.  

It's not just the Scouts who would be affected: it's everyone else they come in contact with.  

 

[RememberSchiff 3683]

Those (that link) were large group camping in outbreak areas (Illinois).  I'm suggesting small group patrol hikes under CDC and state guidelines not unlike we see people safely walking around now.

Edited May 10, 2020 by RememberSchiff
clarity

[MattR 2659]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:50 PM, fred8033 said:

Social distance?  Scouts can't keep their hands off each.  Pushing.  Shoving.  Sharing a chair.  Trading gear.  Playing games.  It is 100% unrealistic to think you can have 6 to 8 scouts who are 11 to 15 years old stay six part away from each other for multiple days.  I doubt if you could succeed for 15 minutes.

I suppose it depends on the scouts involved. If it's a group of 11 year olds, I absolutely agree with you. If it's a group of mature scouts, I can see it happening. It all gets back to trust.

I would not open this idea up to anyone, though. I also wouldn't trust just any scouts to go hike on their own. And yet, groups of 10 is starting to be allowed. My county's hospitals are not even close to full (they've restarted elective surgeries), so it sounds plausible to me. Again, it depends on the scouts and whether there's a level of trust and preparedness. Identify issues and if everyone is comfortable, including the CDC, with how to deal with it then this is an opportunity for growth.  You had concerns about shared cooking, cleaning, door knobs and the like . These are are easily eliminated - go hiking or backpacking and have everyone carry their own gear.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

19 minutes ago, MattR said:

. My county's hospitals are not even close to full (they've restarted elective surgeries), so it sounds plausible to me.

I can tell you that my former hospital has instituted furloughs and mandatory days off for those not furloughed. And many hospitals in my council have implemented similar policies.

[RichardB 220]

22 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Scouts learn the arms length "safety circle" when using knives. Perhaps the "safety circle" should be extended from arms length to 6ft staff length?

"Blood circle" is a little more plain and transparent to most than a generic "safety".  Conveys outcome of being in the circle.  

In the COVID-19 era might become - "Cough Circle" -  While wearing an approved face cover, extend your arms toward each other, fingers extended.   If you touch you are too close.   Oh and now wash those hands.    

Potential to reduce droplet or touching during this testing with the use of a staff / stave was abandoned early on as too many impact injuries were predicted (including those intentional ones while practicing).

[qwazse 4345]

11 minutes ago, RichardB said:

... Potential to reduce droplet or touching during this testing with the use of a staff / stave was abandoned early on as too many impact injuries were predicted (including those intentional ones while practicing).

I nixed a "two axe handle lengths apart" concept for the same reason.

[Jameson76 1485]

We are doing (or planning) or own summer camp for later in July.  Not sure of all the details and not 100% sure of the protocols, but we are stepping off the porch and working the plan.  Thinking we will have +/- 20 - 25 Scouts, plus leaders

Some of our initial thoughts

• No group transportation, parents drop off and pickup
• Every Scout brings their own tent
• You can hammock but no stacking hammocks
• Still figuring out meals, cook some, disposable items, bring in other meals (Pizza night)
• Instruction will be in smaller groups

We are tapping into former leaders, troop alumni, and Eagle Scouts to help as possible with MB classes and skill instruction.  Lots to do but our feedback from families showed overwhelming support for a Troop Camp this summer.

Will be somewhat old school

[RememberSchiff 3683]

23 minutes ago, RichardB said:

"Blood circle" is a little more plain and transparent to most than a generic "safety".  Conveys outcome of being in the circle.  

In the COVID-19 era might become - "Cough Circle" -  While wearing an approved face cover, extend your arms toward each other, fingers extended.   If you touch you are too close.   Oh and now wash those hands.    

Potential to reduce droplet or touching during this testing with the use of a staff / stave was abandoned early on as too many impact injuries were predicted (including those intentional ones while practicing).

I hear ya, in my experience, "blood circle" is attention-grabbing with scouts while "safety circle" is more assuring with parents.  Know your audience, I guess. Cough circle vs Social circle vs Gather circle vs....?

At arms length seems about a foot short of 6ft. , need an air gap the width of a bread box (a unit of measurement from back in the day).

My $0.02,

[SteveMM 60]

3 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

• Still figuring out meals, cook some, disposable items, bring in other meals (Pizza night)

Our troop in Virginia is still planning to go to summer camp starting on July 5, but I'm against it and have my doubts it will happen anyhow.  I'm planning to suggest to the troop something like what your troop is doing.  For meals, I'm going to suggest we go full freeze dried.  It cuts WAY down on food prep and handling, and one person can be in charge of cooking for each patrol.  Obviously, the person in charge of cooking will be required to wear a mask and gloves, but there's really no reason they'll need to touch the food.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

I hear ya, in my experience, "blood circle" is attention-grabbing with scouts while "safety circle" is more assuring with parents.  Know your audience, I guess. Cough circle vs Social circle vs Gather circle vs....?

Yeah the look on some parents when my middle son was a Bear working on Whittling Chip saying "blood circle" was priceless. A few laughed because they hadn't heard that term in ages.

3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

At arms length seems about a foot short of 6ft. , need an air gap the width of a bread box (a unit of measurement from back in the day).

My $0.02,

I prefer the term "Staying out of melee range."  while rolling my D20

[yknot 1338]

9 minutes ago, SteveMM said:

Our troop in Virginia is still planning to go to summer camp starting on July 5, but I'm against it and have my doubts it will happen anyhow.  I'm planning to suggest to the troop something like what your troop is doing.  For meals, I'm going to suggest we go full freeze dried.  It cuts WAY down on food prep and handling, and one person can be in charge of cooking for each patrol.  Obviously, the person in charge of cooking will be required to wear a mask and gloves, but there's really no reason they'll need to touch the food.

Freeze dried meals would work great but they can be expensive and some sellers are out of stock. I just finished two weeks of self isolation and lived mostly on cardboard cups of rice, soup, oatmeal and pasta as well as clementines. If you can boil water, these are easy cheap meals and flatten out as well, and as light, as foil pouches for packing out as garbage. Clementines are durable, portable and can be eaten without touching edible portions with your hands if you have a knife.   

 

[SteveMM 60]

23 minutes ago, yknot said:

Freeze dried meals would work great but they can be expensive and some sellers are out of stock. I just finished two weeks of self isolation and lived mostly on cardboard cups of rice, soup, oatmeal and pasta as well as clementines. If you can boil water, these are easy cheap meals and flatten out as well, and as light, as foil pouches for packing out as garbage. Clementines are durable, portable and can be eaten without touching edible portions with your hands if you have a knife.   

 

Very good points that I will store away for my case to our troop.  Perhaps a mix of the type of things you're suggesting for breakfast and lunch, and full-on freeze dried meals for dinner, might be the way to go.

[Eagle1993 2161]

All of the below assumes state health department & our council allows us to camp.

The discussion we are having as a Troop is what level of social distancing we are able and willing to enforce during a summer camp.  At this point, we are unwilling to enforce social distancing smaller than a patrol.  If there is a need to enforce social distancing smaller than patrols, then camp will not work.  

Patrol level is difficult but may be achievable, but probably not at 100%.  We talked about clear visual indicators of who is in what patrol and ensuring scouts in different patrols stay 6+ feet apart at all times.  Tent buddies from same patrol and keep patrol tents/setups apart.  Even this will be difficult to fully enforce during a full week, but could be a way to limit reduce/limit possible contacts.

Troop level is nearly guaranteed if you have your own summer camp.  If going to a council camp it will depend on the scouts & camp counselors.  Our camp is fully patrol cooking, so we think it is mostly achievable given the info we have been provided … but again, not 100%.

In the end, we are discussing as scouters what we are willing to enforce.  We will discuss with the PLC to see what they view as achievable while still maintaining the summer camp experience.  We can then go to the parents to get their thoughts/concerns.  

For those looking to keep social distancing at the individual level, camp will not be an option this year.  You will have to accept that at minimum your son/daughter will come into contact (<6 feet) with at least 6-9 other scouts.  I think after that level, it is really dependent on the Troop/camp and their practices/plan.