Troops Chartered by Churches

[GrammaScout]

Our Lutheran Church has charted the Boy Scout Troop for nearly 50 yrs. now.  About 8 years ago, with some new Staff and some new Council members...none of whom were familiar with the Program, caught the word 'own' in the Charter, and nothing has been the same since.  They actually almost did not renew the Charter at one point !....major chaos.  This is a stellar Troop with about 30 Eagles and more on the way.  Never a 'financial' crisis or incident...etc.  But these few have over-done the concept of being 'responsible' for the Troop...at one point THEY were actually going to start running the Program...and more!  For the second year in a row, we are now being asked to 'vote on' the Budget of the Troop at the annual Congregational Mtg..,..because we are 'responsible'.  Now about 98 of the 106 voters last year were deemed to be totally unaware of the contents of a Troop Budget..WHY and WHAT...and how that budget was managed when funds were higher or lower than expected....yet they were asked to vote on a budget about which they knew nothing.   Like I said...this year will be the second time in 50 years this is being done.  

I struggle with 'why' and the answer given is:  because WE are responsible....that implies that the Troop Leadership is not.   Is this uninformed, meaningless, paranoid action?    
WHAT if the Congregation ever voted down a Troop Budget?....unlikely, of course.  

If someone wanted to 'donate funds' directly to the Troop, the check has to run through the Church system in order for the donor to receive a tax-exempt receipt.  I get that.  But the Scoutmaster had to appear before the Finance Committee and tell them exactly how such funds were to be used before the Church Treasurer would deposit it into their account.  is this normal or common?     It seems to treat the Scout Leadership as if they were children.  But still...is all this 'common' in Churches who carry Charters for Troops?

Edited June 23, 2019 by GrammaScout
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[David CO]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm Catholic. We don't have an annual Congregational Meeting. So please forgive me if I don't completely understand how you do things.

My feeling is that your Boy Scout troop should follow the same procedures that are customarily followed for all of the other programs and activities at your Church. If all of the other programs submit a budget for approval at the Congregational Meeting, then your troop should do so too. 

I am reluctant to comment on whether or not your Church treats people like children, since we customarily refer to our clergy as "father".

[SSScout]

The answer, as in much of Scouting is... "it depends".   

Yes, the CO "owns " the Unit.   Yes, if the Unit, for what ever reason should fold up and blow away, the Unit's assets would devolve to the CO. Legalities..

Yes, the CO has oversight for the Scout program, legally.  The BSA programs are a franchise operation,  if the program should not pass muster by the BSA folks, or by the CO's folks, the Unit could be in  trouble. Budget?  Events?  Leadership approval?  Public view?   Does the Scout Unit really show the CO to it's best ?  All considerations if   the CO so chooses.  But...

A Scout is Trustworthy.   There must be a certain understanding between the CO (thru the COR and the IH , yes?) about who is in charge of the Unit's operation, events, money, Scout stuff  and the Scout Unit Leaders.  Yes, there is such a thing as too much micro-managing.  But it is also a good thing if the CO takes an interest in "their" Scout Unit.   Many (most?) COs have a hands off attitude (we don't bother them, they don't bother us) toward their Scout units. "Isn't it good, we like Scouting, looks good on our publicity, XYZ organization sponsors a Scout Pack/Troop" sort of thing, without a thought of "doing" anything about it. Sign a piece of paper once a year,  how ya doin'?  Good, see you next year...   

I would counsel looking on this as an opportunity to foster trust, knowledge of the wonderfulness of Scouting, seek to gain more support and (!!) Volunteer Leaders.    Service to your church? Good publicity?   An involved COR ( he/she is the voting member of Council !) is a VERY good thing.   Smile and answer their questions. Submit a budget?  Plan for the year ahead?  Talk about the wonderful young people you work with? The Church has Eagle Scouts in it's history?  I hope you have a plaque on the Church Social Hall wall listing these accomplished young people.  

Is this new concern an annoyance?  An obstacle to your Scouts being Scouts?   Or is it a blessing in disguise?   A Scout is also Loyal , and Cheerful and.... 

Oh, and GrammaScout?  Welcome to the forums,  thank you for your concern for your ("your !"  ) Scout Troop, and Good Scouting to you !   Notice how realistic the virtual smoke is as it follows you around the eCampfire, no matter where you sit....

[Eagledad]

I ran into the same frustration. My logical engineering mind couldn’t understand how to explain the budget of a youth program dynamic of activities we couldn’t predict would occur. I took it personally. But it wasn’t personal at all. My CPA wife explained that the church has to account for all their assets and activities. The budget is a baseline to keep track of their performance. As far as they are concerned, your troop is just asset “D” on the budget list. They can’t even guess asset D’s cost to the church, so they are asking the operators of asset D. Your basic answer is Ds operation will take in this much and spend this much. It will show no cost to the church. The church will move on to asset “E”. 

Barry

[David CO]

17 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I took it personally. But it wasn’t personal at all. 

Good answer.

[ParkMan]

 

15 hours ago, GrammaScout said:

I struggle with 'why' and the answer given is:  because WE are responsible....that implies that the Troop Leadership is not.   Is this uninformed, meaningless, paranoid action?    
WHAT if the Congregation ever voted down a Troop Budget?....unlikely, of course.  

If someone wanted to 'donate funds' directly to the Troop, the check has to run through the Church system in order for the donor to receive a tax-exempt receipt.  I get that.  But the Scoutmaster had to appear before the Finance Committee and tell them exactly how such funds were to be used before the Church Treasurer would deposit it into their account.  is this normal or common?     It seems to treat the Scout Leadership as if they were children.  But still...is all this 'common' in Churches who carry Charters for Troops?

The church is ultiamtely responsible for the financial and program operations of the troop.  Sounds like they are micromanaging more than normal.  But, they are well within their right to expect this kind of attention to detail.  As @Eagledad elquently states - budgets are a way a Church Committee tracks whether groups are operating as expected.  

The trick as a troop committee is to provide enough transparency that the church trusts the Troop Committee to make the decisisions for the operation of the troop.  Review the budget with the church.  Show them that your Troop Committee has a financial plan to soundly manage the operating funds of the troop.  

Our troop prepares an annual budget that is fairly detailed.  It is created jointly between the treasurer and the Committee Chair. The Scoutmaster would be welcome to participate, but he doesn't want to be.  We basically have two main sections in our budget: general income/expenses and activity income/expenses.  We have a financial model where we pay for general expenses out of dues and pay for activities through per-activity fees.  General expenses are pretty well set and cover things like paying for dues, meeting supplies, equipment maintenance, new equipment, training, and web page hosting.  We anticipate activity income/expenses to break even.  If we do one activity we break even.  If we do 100 activities we break even.  In addition, we have budget line items for donations, fundraising, and Scouting scholarships.  The Troop Committee approves the budget annually.

Every month the treasurer produces a one-page report on how we are tracking to the plan.  The troop committee reviews it and makes adjustments to the plan as needed.

If our CO wanted to review and even approve it, that would be fine by me.  if the CO wanted a change in the budget, we'd review it as a Troop Committee and meet the request.  If the request from the church somehow negativly impacted our operations we'd develop some strategy to address that.

It sounds like your troop may be missing a Chartered Organization Representative (COR). It really should be the COR and perhaps Troop Committee Chair that deal with the church - not the Scoutmaster or other adult leaders.  The COR and/or CC can deal with explaining how donations are allocated in the budget.  That's not a Scoutmaster function at all.  if you are missing that person, perhaps you can find a respected member of the church who can fill that role and encourage them to volunteer their services to the head of the church.  The COR is a position appointed by the church, so they'd need to be savvy enough to have the church appoint them to that role.

Sorry for the long winded response.  I do really think this is not a bad thing for your troop - but it will really help you all to figure out how to manage the situation.  Provide the church the visibilty they want and find some volunteers who can manage the church/troop relationship and I think you'll be in great shape.