Outside Magazine: Boy Scouts Should Allow Girls

[Zuse 9]

Unfortunately, an "adult" scouting program beyond what is already offered through Venturing would survive long enough, have enough resources or have enough interested people for it to really thrive. It's a pipe dream.

 

 

Some young adults will see it as too childish (an extension of scouting for teenagers), and some will not feel challenged enough by it. Those that would truly benefit from it are a very small, fringe group of people. Outdoor programs that cater to 20-somethings and up seeking outdoor adventure and leadership are a dime a dozen, so for BSA to enter that saturated field is not worth their time, especially in terms of time and money spent. 

 

 

When I was in college, I wanted to keep up with Scouting and not lose what I had learned. So, I found a local scout troop and volunteered my time with them and served in various positions (Assistant Scoutmaster, Committee Member, USR). As rewarding as it was, being in college and trying to also serve in scouting was a huge weight and I struggled to accomplish my core objectives (aka school itself and preparing for a career). The unit was great, other scouters were very supportive and I was enthusiastic, but there's a finite limit to how much a person can do and how much they spread their time before they stop being effective.

 

Scouting, if done correctly, sets the youth on a course that will carry them through the rest of their life because it's done during their most crucial years. If an adult really wants to incorporate the scouting values in their life, there's nothing stopping them from doing so on their own.

[Stosh 3452]

Gee, when I was in college, I went camping, fishing, boating/canoeing, skiing, hunting etc. all the time with my new buddies.  One doesn't need a structured program to do that.  It doesn't take long to find the outdoorsy type people with like interests.  I always got asked because I could cook on a campfire.  The stove was one less thing to drag into the woods.  I even got invited to a fishing trip to Canada because the people knew how to fish, but didn't know the first thing about camping.  My trip was free, they all chipped in for my share of the trip because I could camp and cook. 

 

Maybe it's different these days than what it was back then, but I can assure you that the weekend before finals weeks was not a good time to get out into the woods.

[EmberMike 144]

Gee, when I was in college, I went camping, fishing, boating/canoeing, skiing, hunting etc. all the time with my new buddies.  One doesn't need a structured program to do that.  It doesn't take long to find the outdoorsy type people with like interests.  I always got asked because I could cook on a campfire.   The stove was one less thing to drag into the woods.  I even got invited to a fishing trip to Canada because the people knew how to fish, but didn't know the first thing about camping.  My trip was free, they all chipped in for my share of the trip because I could camp and cook. 

 

Maybe it's different these days than what it was back then, but I can assure you that the weekend before finals weeks was not a good time to get out into the woods.

 

I went to college 1998-2002 and did plenty of camping in those years. But always with non-scout friends, and any scouts I knew who I camped with were from back home, not college area. I just think it would have been cool to connect with other scouts on campus. 

 

No one needs organization to go camping, for sure. I was thinking more like there are clubs, fraternities, etc., maybe there could be something on campus that brings scouts together. It doesn't seem like such a crazy idea to me. There's already NESA, but that's pretty broad being at the national level. Why not a University Scouting Association or something like that? BSA could try to establish chapters at some schools see if it gains any traction. 

[Gwaihir 198]

I went to college 1998-2002 and did plenty of camping in those years. But always with non-scout friends, and any scouts I knew who I camped with were from back home, not college area. I just think it would have been cool to connect with other scouts on campus. 

 

No one needs organization to go camping, for sure. I was thinking more like there are clubs, fraternities, etc., maybe there could be something on campus that brings scouts together. It doesn't seem like such a crazy idea to me. There's already NESA, but that's pretty broad being at the national level. Why not a University Scouting Association or something like that? BSA could try to establish chapters at some schools see if it gains any traction. 

 

Not discrediting your ideas, but why does the BSA have to do anything?  With the available tools the internet provides us, I would think industrious and prepared scouts would be able to form up their own unofficial scout alum clubs on their campuses.  Also, and I have no idea here, but isn't that what BSA's whole Alumni program push is for, to reconnect scouts who've moved on to adulthood?  Or is the Alumni program just another FOS knock-off? 

[Rick_in_CA 401]

The focus of my point was that the YMCA, now the Family Y, had to change totally away from it's original mission in order to make the change, is that what BSA is up to?  Sure things changed, they merged, they went co-ed, they invited in families, etc. etc. etc. all for membership the the bottom line.  I was hoping BSA had more integrity than that.

Actually, I wasn't disagreeing with your main point, I was just pointing out something that I thought was of interest. I always thought that the two Ys had merged. But recently found out that they hadn't.

[Stosh 3452]

Actually, I wasn't disagreeing with your main point, I was just pointing out something that I thought was of interest. I always thought that the two Ys had merged. But recently found out that they hadn't.

 

They have at a local level in many places, but not nationally.

[desertrat77 1144]

I don't think the YMCA or the organizations we are discussing changed their practices because they wanted to.  Times and expectations changed and they had to adapt.  Things may not resemble the original configuration.  They could have stayed exactly the same and withered on the vine.

Edited August 3, 2017 by desertrat77

[Sablanck 26]

I watched the live stream from National last night about the possible change to allow girls.

I listened to the discussion at our council office via the web stream and it was the same discussions that are on this thread.

 

I also agree with an early reply in this thread with a mock timeline of when this change will happen.

National has already made its decision I feel the video was more lip service than anything.

Girls will be allowed in very soon.

I am curious though has Girl Scouting done any studies to see how many they wiill lose to BSA when this happens.

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Yes I wonder what reaction GSUSA will have, if any...

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I watched the live stream from National last night about the possible change to allow girls.

I listened to the discussion at our council office via the web stream and it was the same discussions that are on this thread.

 

I also agree with an early reply in this thread with a mock timeline of when this change will happen.

National has already made its decision I feel the video was more lip service than anything.

Girls will be allowed in very soon.

I am curious though has Girl Scouting done any studies to see how many they wiill lose to BSA when this happens.

 

Sablanck, I am wondering if you drew the same conclusion that I did from the video presentation, that the BSA is NOT considering allowing girls to join Boy Scout troops, and that if any change is made at that age level, it will be a separate girls-only program.  That was definitely my impression, but there are some in this forum who still seem to think that units will be "coed" at all age levels.  And then there is at least one person who thinks that the "separate unit for girls" at the Boy Scout level is just a ruse and that the all-boy troops and all-girl units will just meet together and it will be effectively "coed".  I am just wondering what impression you got.

[qwazse 4344]

Sablanck, I am wondering if you drew the same conclusion that I did from the video presentation, that the BSA is NOT considering allowing girls to join Boy Scout troops, and that if any change is made at that age level, it will be a separate girls-only program.  That was definitely my impression, but there are some in this forum who still seem to think that units will be "coed" at all age levels.  And then there is at least one person who thinks that the "separate unit for girls" at the Boy Scout level is just a ruse and that the all-boy troops and all-girl units will just meet together and it will be effectively "coed".  I am just wondering what impression you got.

 

Boiling frogs slowly. That's what it sounds like.

[Sablanck 26]

Sablanck, I am wondering if you drew the same conclusion that I did from the video presentation, that the BSA is NOT considering allowing girls to join Boy Scout troops, and that if any change is made at that age level, it will be a separate girls-only program.  That was definitely my impression, but there are some in this forum who still seem to think that units will be "coed" at all age levels.  And then there is at least one person who thinks that the "separate unit for girls" at the Boy Scout level is just a ruse and that the all-boy troops and all-girl units will just meet together and it will be effectively "coed".  I am just wondering what impression you got.

The impression was that National is missing the point, but that girls will be a part of all ages of BSA programs.

 

Girls want to earn the same merit badges and ranks as the boys and they want the Eagle rank.  Girls dont want some different program so they can go do things outside. People can talk all they want about venturing and other coed programs.  Those ranks may be harder to achieve but they do not have the same reputation as the Eagle rank.  Eagle has a wiki page listing all of the famous men who have earned Eagle.  There are no wiki pages dedicated to highest rank of Sea Scouts or Venturing.  Eagle is more known and respected in many facets including movies and T.V.  How many characters are eagle scouts?

That is what the girls want.

I honestly dont know what National will dictate.  Discussing with my wife they will probably do the same thing and leave it up to the chartering organization to decide.

 

I still remember when Mr. Gates announced in May that nothing pertaining to the homosexual topic for leaders was going to be changed but then in September BAM it was changed.  I feel they will do the exact same thing with this.

 

Girl scouts will do nothing to change their program until their cookie sales drop but I dont see that happening.   

[EmberMike 144]

If National is sincere in their motivation for this being to make scouting more accessible to families and creating an environment in which the whole family can participate, it doesn't make much sense to only do that at the cub level and then split up a boy/girl family after cub age. Kind of defeats the purpose of the plan. 

 

I suspect this is National's way of easing into co-ed at all levels. They know that most concern about this is focused on the troop level, so maybe they're trying to start off easy and work our way up to co-ed troops in a couple of years. 

 

The problem with this strategy would be that you could have girls join a pack at age 9 and then National didn't really buy themselves a whole lot of time to think through the troop problem. But I guess they're hoping it will mostly be 6 and 7 year old girls signing up at first. 

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Boiling frogs slowly. That's what it sounds like.

 

Maybe.  But I have to tell you, as cynical as I usually am, and skeptical of pronouncements from National, when I watched that video of the CSE explaining what he wants and doesn't want (a program for girl Cub Scouts to cross over to, but not coed troops), it struck me as having a great deal of sincerity.  Maybe he is just a good salesman, but I got the sense that he was saying what he really believed.  Of course, I am not betting any money on this, so it doesn't cost me anything if I'm wrong.  I hope I'm right.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

The "Finnish Model" as I call a coed Cub Scout program, separate Boy Scouts and Girl Guide programs, and coed Venturing program, will not work in this country. Here are a few reasons.

 

1) It rings of "Separate but Equal." Let's face it, a separate Girls Scout program is already not working. why rehash the same thing within BSA? 

 

2) Those folks demanding coed Scouting will not accept anything less than total integration. If national decided to to this, we will keep revisiting this issue over the years, further hurting our boys, as well as any girls in the programs.

 

3) A separate program will mean additional Scouters needed, most with no Boy Scouting experience. While we cwill get a lot of dissatisfied Girl Scouts and their volunteers, will it be enough to have a separate program? Also will they have the knowledge, skills, and experience to run a proper BSA program? Some existing units today already have challenges getting enough volunteers.

 

4) Units will ignore the "separate but equal" programs and integrate no matter what national decides. With the emphasis being "More Accessible to Families" why create 2 separate programs at that level, when Cubs and Venturing is already coed?  Why have to double the efforts and time?  

 

When I discussed this with 3 individuals who have an interest in girls coming into the BSA, All three said they would do the separate but equal units on paper, but ignore it in practice. If BSA wants to be "Family Friendly" they will need full integration. Otherwise we will be boil;ng a frog.