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Out of the mouths of young men....sigh

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The drama continues. Son Still does not have SMC or board of review for Eagle. SM is nitpicking at meeting plans son sent to him. Have not had PLC in three months. Called one this week. Told son to have meeting plan written up and email to SM the next night. Meeting is the 24th, next Sunday. Son could not put the details in plan because the scout he was supposed to get first class requirements needed from will not get back to son (SPL).


Son sent what info he had and SM sent back email stating he wanted the details for scout needing first class requirements on sheet, why weren't they on?


Son emailed back with the fact that scout never got back to him and he needs to talk to ASM for homework details yet to put those in. Son also said that he is looking forward to SMC and board of review at same meeting because he has been trying to get this since before summer camp in late June.


SM sent last email telling son he will have someone else take care of the meeting plans!! WTH??? Just because son said he needs to get the info from the other peopke yet. Son also told SM in email prior that because they have not had a PLC in three months, that the scribe has no details for him. SM requested info from scribe.


SM also belittled son because he was not paying attention to ASM talking about what hexis,working on for Eagle badges in meetings and homework needed for scouts. Son said wrong thing to SM. Sorry, I wasnt paying attention, I already have that badge. SM told son he still needs to teach, he's not done yet. So son explained that he didn't hear what was being said about homework and that he took offense to SM saying he is not teaching the scouts because he is,


So now I am thinking SM is not going to give SMC or board,of review.


If son goes to another troop, would they be able to give SMC and board of review? Will he have to be there for awhile before they would do this?


The hate this troop. Last thing son said last night before going to bed was. "The only thing I have learned while being a LIFE scout, is to take care of myself, look out for self. As soon as I get my EAGLE, I am out of here!"and goodbye to scouting forever." My heart aches for him and for scouting. I did not want him to ever think that way let alone about scouting. He l9ved it at his last troop. This troop has sacked the scout blood out of him.

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He. Needs. To. Find. A. New. Troop. Right. Now.

+1   Say adios to the old troop as soon as possible. 

Something struck me as I've been reading all of this - the Scout has said that he is done with Scouting - that he is no longer enthusiastic about it and now just wants to get his Eagle and get out - n

Oh boy.

In my view the question is, has YOUR SON concluded that he is not going to be given a Scoutmaster Conference for Eagle.

And I guess another question would be, would an objective observer looking at all of the provable facts, conclude that your son is being DENIED an SMC for Eagle. Not simply "delayed", but delayed and delayed and delayed to the point where one would conclude that it is never going to happen. Personally, if there is no 18th birthday coming up, my rule of thumb would be that if your son asked for an SMC at least 3 months ago, and it hasn't happened, it is being denied. Others here might disagree on the time frame. But it isn't up to us, it is up to the objective observer.

And who might that objective observer be? No offense, but it's not you. It's someone like your District Advancement Chair, because in my view, your son's situation is at (or getting close to) bringing it to that person.

If your son is actually being denied an SMC, my next question would be this:

Has your son passed EVERY requirement for Eagle except for the SMC and BOR? And I mean every single one, and he can prove it. His handbook has signatures for all the requirements.  His Eagle project workbook has every signature that it needs, including the SM and CC of his troop. He either has the fully signed blue cards for 13 Eagle-required merit badges and 8 other merit badges, or he has some other proof (which will satisfy council) that he has earned all of those badges. He has written the "life goals" or whatever the requirements call them these days. In other words, literally, every single requirement has been completed and your son can prove it, except for SMC and BOR.

If that is true, I think that joining another troop in order to finish the very last requirement for Eagle probably is not the right answer. The right answer is probably in the Guide to Advancement (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf), section, Eagle Board of Review under Disputed Circumstances. There is a procedure there, and it will probably require contacting the District Advancement Chair or perhaps an employee at council, or both.

It seems to me that that procedure, which I have never seen used in real life, may be tailor-made for your son's situation.

I would also suggest that if your son decides to pursue this course, that he should be his own spokesman.

I may be wrong, but I think joining another troop at this moment may distract from the real issue at hand. If your son has actually earned Eagle but the SM is obstructing the completion of the SMC/BOR requirements, the focus should be on finishing Eagle. Once he has that, then he can decide what else he wants to do in Scouting. I can tell you that if I was a Scoutmaster of another troop and had a Scout show up with a transfer application and immediately ask for an SMC for Eagle, my first call would be to council/district to find out what to do.

Edited by NJCubScouter
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@@NJCubScouter, you make excellent points.   But I think the theme I've seen in Mom's posts over the last months can be summed up thusly:


- Conflict between SM and scout

- Unnecessary red tape and slow-leak-paperwork processing by unit and district

- Spontaneous policy changes

- Irregular meeting habits


I'm all for the benefit of the doubt and patience being a virtue.  However, there is a time to cut bait, and I think this is that time.

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First, NJCubScouter speaks my mind.  

1)  Scout Son must pursue this.  You must support him, but he must pursue.

2)  A Scout is Courteous.   Scout must make it easy, to the point of being impossible not to,  for the PTB (SM?) to do their job.   Scout must be ready, prepared, and  have all ducks in row at all times.

3) A Scout is Cheerful.   Scout must smilingly present and accept and present again, as often as necessary, what SM requests.

4)  A Scout Thrifty.   (couldn't find a really appropriate one here).   Document everything privately.  Save emails.  Keep a diary, if you haven't already.  Save calendars and entries for meetings, etc.  Collect names of possible witnesses to events.   Decide who, if anyone, might be willing to write a letter or appear with you to speak to the other PTB (District Adv. Chair,  Council Adv. Chair, etc.) if it becomes necessary to go the next level.

5)  Have you spoken to others in the Troop hierarchy?  Have others approached the SM to see what's up?   Make sure it isn't just Scout, you and him. 

 6)   Be patient.  Prayer does lubricate things.   The Lord will provide.   Again, make sure you are making it as easy as possible for the SM to Do The Right Thing.  

It will happen.  

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Son has ALL requirements...only needs SM conference and signatures on application. He is just tired on being pushed around, not lead, pushed like a little Marrionette. And when he tries to be assertive and try to be a,real SPL, he is put in his place by the ASM And SM. They dont do things here that way he is told. He just wants his signatures and to be done, and it just is not happening.


The meeting g is,supposed to be after their campout that evening on Sunday and this troop has been known to cancel meetings on a whim. Football games, nice day, bad day, holiday etc...he cannot pin point an actual appointment to have this stuff done.what if they cancel the meeting, then it's another two weeks and if that is the COH, it won't be done then either. Besides, two other scouts need conferences and reviews, would look good I would think if it was done before the COH.


They are supposed to have a COH in August, their first EVER but there has been no mention to anyone, don't even know a date yet. Also elections in August, another first, they always do yearly election season in January. He is so tickled that he will be done as SPL in August and not January.


Reason he wants to wrap things up soon is because football starts in August with practices and games and then open gyms for basketball in late October. He will be stretched for availability and knows it. Has been able to make sports and scouts work up till now but thecsports,are really demanding with their practices.


I grew up thinking very highly of scouts, my brother was a cub. But all this red tape and be aura racy is rediculous...

Edited by NJCubScouter
Fixing a distracting typo
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In my opinion, Scout's best course of action would be to at least TALK TO the Scoutmaster of another Troop, preferably one that has had little to no history with the current Troop.  Explain the situation, past & present and how its making him feel about himself and about Scouting in general.  Ask this Scoutmaster if he has any suggestions for how to proceed.  Perhaps this SM will suggest contacting Council and going that route.  Perhaps the SM will hand Scout a transfer application.  Perhaps he'll tell Scout "you know.. your SM isn't being unreasonable.. buck up, young man."  Don't know.



Yes, this Scout could "go over his SM's and CC's heads" and follow the route of a "Disputed Circumstances" board of review.  However if he does so, he will permanently burn bridges between himself and those two adults. 


If he receives his Eagle this way, he'll need to find a new Troop, because based on what we've heard so far, the current SM will treat him like crap afterwards.

If he does NOT receive his Eagle this way, he'll never get an SMC/BOR out of this Troop.  They'll hold his side-step attempt over his head until he ages out.


Either way, he'll be looking for a new Troop, if he doesn't just outright quit the program.

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The ASM And SM have made it very clear that he is to do what THEN want and HOW they want. Everything son does is,wrong and they let him know it. All the boys are scolded repeatedly. Even the SM son swears at him and calls him names put of ear shot.

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Mr. Bob, SM already treats son like crappie. Mainly because son wants to be a real SPL and lead. I am so sad about this,whole thing right now.


Hubby found out SM never even took Oak leaf, so how,is he,qualified to lead? He has had this troop now,for going on 4 years with a man exodus of families 3 years ago.

Edited by zuzy
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No, not at all. Council got wind that they don't even have COHS and only elect once a year in January. So council told them to start doing elections biyearly. Hubby is unit commissioner. They are not pleased with hubby and seems like son is paying for it.


Who knows if they will actually even have the COH the way they do things.


Actually son was,doing a great job working with the other scouts and has two of them ready to rank up right now. Something the other SPL have not been doing the past three years. One scout still does not have first class and he has been in the troop 3 years now. This is the guy that got son in hot water right now. It was his,requirements that were supposed to be put in the meeting plan and said scout will not return phone calls or email to SPL. But his Momma sent the Information directly to SM. When SPL sent Email to SM asking g for that info, SM simply returned SPL email telling him someone else else,will do the meeting plans and for the ASM to send his info on the house work to SM not SPL.

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I guess I don't understand why this scout's advancement, or lack thereof, would be the subject of a meeting.  In my unit, scouts aren't required to participate in the advancement program if they don't want to.  

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