jpc763 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Hello, I am a Scoutmaster and I have an issue with one of my MB Counselors. Here is the issue. A scout in my troop began the Personal Fitness MB in January. He documented his 12 weeks of fitness program and then was not able to attend the group re-test. He tried to contact the counselor (probably not very hard) but was unable. The counselor has stopped attending meetings and rarely answers his phone. Fast forward, the scout got ahold of the counselor who showed up a meeting only to tell the scout that too much time has elapsed since the end of his 12 week program so he has to start over. The scout updated his document to show 17 weeks of program (varsity swim season) but the counselor said the he would not perform the retest. Requirement 8 states: Complete the physical fitness program you outlined in requirement 7. Keep a log of your fitness program activity (how long you exercised; how far you ran, swam, or biked; how many exercise repetitions you completed; your exercise heart rate; etc.). Repeat the aerobic fitness, muscular strength, and flexibility tests every two weeks and record your results. After the 12th week, repeat the three tests, record your results, and show improvement in each one. For the body composition test, compare and analyze your preprogram and postprogram body composition measurements. Discuss the meaning and benefit of your experience, and describe your long-term plans regarding your personal fitness. There is no time limit that I can see. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks, John Scoutmaster in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 My thoughts are to find another merit badge counselor for the lad, and contact the District and/or Council Advancement Chair and tell them that this guy does not have the temperment to be a merit badge counselor. I would also contact every single scout troop in the District to tell them to steer clear of this guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Well, in a sense there is a time limit, but I see no requirement to do the tests in front of the counselor.. Did the Scout do, record, compare and analyze exactly as it says in the requirement? If so he is ready to talk to a counselor, discuss and describe as it says, and pass that requirement. The first counselor quit on him. I think he is entitled to a substitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Some questions Did this scout receive a partial blue card from this MBC? How many other scouts from your troop were in this particular class? Was his son one of them? What goes around, comes around applies to more than just toilet paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 There is no "time lapse" for MB requirements. He could have done it in 2009. As long as he's not yet 18 the prior work counts. Find another MBC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc763 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 All, Our troop along with another troop held a "Merit Badge University" in January. This counselor is a young man from my Troop. He is a former Eagle from our troop (with 5 palms) and has come back as a leader after college. His father was the scoutmaster 10 years ago when he made Eagle and was rumored to be tough. We have had to correct him in the past for "adding requirements" to Boards of Review and Merit Badges but all in all, he is a very good scouter. I should have said this in the first post, but this scout is my younger son. I did not direct the counselor to "follow the requirements" as it was my son. Instead, I told him to talk to the committee chair before he made any decision. He did not take that advice. The Counselor is not readily available. All of the boys from both Troops received partial blue cards. This is the only requirement left for all of them. About 3 months after the MBU, the counselor sent an email out saying that the final test would be on this date. My son had a swim meet and could not make it. The counselor told him to arrange another time so my son waited until after swim season to arrange another time. My son owns responsibility for not "hounding" the counselor but the counselor also owns responsibility as he does not attend meetings or answer the troop email. Here is the rough timeline January 24 - MBU and first test Early to Mid April - Counselor schedules final test Mid May - My Son completes his swimming season and tries to meet with counselor at meeting. Mid June - Gets alternate contact info from Advancement Chair Mid June - Calls and leaves message for counselor July 6 - Counselor comes to troop meeting and tells my son that he cannot do the final test and needs to restart his 12 week program because it has been too long. July 7 - My son sends counselor 17 week program showing continued work until Mid May and asks if he can have his final test administrated by someone else. July 8 - Counselor sends email to my son with the following. "You are 12 weeks past the end of the merit badge testing date. I will not test you for this merit badge till I have a chance to talk it over with Mrs. X. ... If Mrs. X approves your delayed testing she will sign for the completion of the merit badge not me." Mrs. X has been on vacation since July 3 and will not return until July 22 so his final testing will be delayed further by a month from when he went to Mrs X to get alternate contact info and 2 months from when he began trying to schedule it after swim season. I firmly believe that the kids need to do the work, but I also believe that it is not fair for counselors to interpret the requirements. I expect the committee chair to agree and this will likely result in the counselor being dropped from the list. He will likely drop completely out as well. I just wanted to get other opinions on this situation. Please feel free to ask more questions. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc763 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Well, in a sense there is a time limit, but I see no requirement to do the tests in front of the counselor.. Did the Scout do, record, compare and analyze exactly as it says in the requirement? If so he is ready to talk to a counselor, discuss and describe as it says, and pass that requirement. The first counselor quit on him. I think he is entitled to a substitute. He did do the compare and analyze. He has all of his documentation and was trying in June to talk to another counselor since the original one was not available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc763 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Some questions Did this scout receive a partial blue card from this MBC? How many other scouts from your troop were in this particular class? Was his son one of them? What goes around, comes around applies to more than just toilet paper. He received a partial card with only requirement 8 left. There were about 8 other scouts in the class from two different troops. Two other scouts from our troop attended his "final test" date. He does not have kids. He is an Eagle Scout and former member of our troop. His father is a former scoutmaster from our troop as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) As a Dad, Eagle Scout, and Scouter, a scout salute to you for not punching SuperScout in the nose. As you know, one of the Methods of Scouting is Adult Association. Some adults can be difficult, arbitrary, unfair, and well you know. No matter, scouts learn how to work with adults or around them. Working around this MBC and finding a second MBC seems a good life lesson. Second opinions and second chances are part of life. As for SuperScout, you, the Troop Committee, and Council have options which have been mentioned. A scout salute to your son for his hard work, My $0.02 Edited July 21, 2015 by RememberSchiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr56 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 This counselor is being a total jerk. Get rid of him immediately, and have the scout go to another counselor. This should have been done months ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prof Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I agree that the best course of action is to find another counselor. Luckily, you have blue card partials in hand, so finishing this up should go easily! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Always amazed at how fast this group is to throw a fellow Scouter under the bus based on one side of the story. Consider this: Read together, the intent of requirements 6. 7 and 8 is to show the Scouts how to develop an exercise program which focuses on strengthening their weaknesses. It's not just go out and exercise, its test yourself, develop a plan based on the test, work the plan, test again, modify the plan, work the modified plan and then see where you end up. While I understand that by the book you can do the 12 weeks at age 11 and take the final test seven years later, that misses the overall grand lesson of the program. No surprise BSA literature is less than clear and somewhat contradictory. How about your son go back to the second counselor -- a young guy who clearly got a lot out of the program and is now trying to give back, who you guys derisively label "Super Scout" -- and reiterate that it hasn't been five weeks plus since he finished the exercise plan, but that he has in fact, continued exercising through those additional weeks and he HAS gone above and beyond the requirements. And I don't think it out of bounds for the SM to offer a friendly aside to the counselor that it was rather unfair of the first counselor to dictate one date for the final tests with no other options for a make-up. Given the opportunity, most folks try to do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Always amazed at how fast this group is to throw a fellow Scouter under the bus based on one side of the story. Re-read the OP. The kid only had a few months pass and seemed to do the work in question. The MBC did not seem to do the right thing and he was given the opportunity. On the face of it, the group advice seems sound....find a new MBC. Edited July 22, 2015 by Bad Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 You're probably right. Anytime I've had a difficult boss or client I've always found it better to just move on rather than try to work things out. Bail and shop for a better venue is the life lesson I'd want my son to take from the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 You're probably right. Anytime I've had a difficult boss or client I've always found it better to just move on rather than try to work things out. Bail and shop for a better venue is the life lesson I'd want my son to take from the situation. No one is saying to summarily leave without confronting the situation and trying to resolve things. It seems that is exactly what the scout did and that the adult was pretty unreasonable. At some point you should look elsewhere when people of good faith cannot resolve their differences. Seems this MBC was being a pratt for no good reason. The life lesson of when to stop beating your head against the wall is ALSO a good lesson to learn; it avoids wasting time with people that have no intention of meeting you half way or being reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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