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pamalam

?? about insurance for Troop trailer

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Yeah! Our troop just purchased a 6X12 trailer to store and haul all our gear. The trailer will be stored on the property of our Chartering Organization.

 

Do any of your troops have such a trailer? If so, what do you do for insurance? We would like the insurance policy to belong to the troop and not be tied to the church or any individual troop family. Is this possible?

 

We are having trouble finding and insurance company that would be willing to let us sign.

 

Thanks for your help,

Pam

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Hi Pam,

 

Although insurance is differant state by state, the basic premise is the titled owner of the vehicle needs to insure it.

 

Since by your charter, the troop and its eguipment belong to your charter partner for Scouting purposes, they are the best source to get it insured.

 

We just did this with my troop. It opened up the doors of communication to better understand our relationship with the chartered partner. We pay the little extra it cost to add it to their insurance. The liability would extend from the vehicle that is towing the trailer. The comprehensive and collision coverages from the chartered partner.

 

I'm sure others may do it differently. I'm curious what other advice you'll get. As an insurance agent, I knew of only one way to do it in my state and have proper coverage.

 

Bob

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Overtrained is correct. Go through your chartered partner for the insurance. It's the best way and the BSA way.

 

DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

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I think it depends on your CO. We are chartered by a PTO organization and they wanted no part of insuring or titling our trailer, so we put it under the Troop's name. State Farm insures it for about $30.00 per year.

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The problem is that in the etes of the law the PTO's troop is no different than the Basdketball teeam or the Chess Club. Can you imagine what would happen if you tried to indure something in the name of the ches club. The troop is not a legal entity, it is a youth group belonging to the chartered organization. What is happening is that the insurance agent has no idea that the troop doesn't belong to the BSA and thinks they have insured a unit of the BSA. You could be in real trouble if you ever needed to colect and someone realized that the policy was not owned by a valid entity.

 

 

Bob White

 

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Now we get back to the age old question. Who owns the equipment owned by the troop? We have debated this question till we are blue in the face and no one has ever been able to provide a solid no BS answer. According to the State of New York, Our trailer belongs to the Troop, Not our charter Organization. Same as our Bank Account, the charter Org is not on it in anyway.

 

So DS Maybe you can provide us something in the national rules that can once and for all answer the question.

 

Pamalam,

As far as insurance goes, ownership has nothing to so with When insurance companies pay. Have one of the Leaders put int on thier insurance policy if you have to. Just have a written agreement and have troop pay then for cost.

 

A word of advice, don't leave it at the CO unless it is in a secured lot or chained to a BIG immovable object. LOts of troops have had them stolen that way. We store all our trailers at scout leaders houses for security.

 

Paul

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Remember, when the trailer is stored at the individuals home, theft or damage will fall under their home owners insurance. A trailer in tow is protected by the insurance of the vehicle towing it in most cases.

 

The Congressional Charter of the BSA states that the scout unit belongs to the charter organization. Scout units are youth outreach programs of community organizations that contract to use the BSA program. No scout unit is a legal entity unto itself, not even in New York.

 

Want proof? Read the rules of fundraising. No individual or Scout unit may sign a contract representing the BSA or it's units. Why because the unit is not a legal entity of scouting. Only BSA Councils and their legal representatives can sign a contract as a scouting organization. That insurance policy is a contract and if written to a scout unit and signed by an individual representing that scout unit is illegitimate and proabably illegal.

 

You cannot get an insurance company to insure the robes of the church choir under the choir's name. The robes would be covered in the property insurance coverage of the church. The troop is no different.

 

So why do insurance companies write coverage for scout units? Because they don't know about the congrassional charter or the ownership of the unit and properties. that is our responsibility as scouters. It is also our obligation to be honest and forthcoming with that information when purchasing insurance.

 

When the Choir holds a fundraiser for new robes they do so not as an independent organization, but as the Church's choir. When the choir changes members, leadership or disbands the robes are owned by the church. Your scout unit is no different.

 

You earn money either using the name and image of your charter organization or that of the BSA. Any money raised or equipment purchased with that money is first the property of the Charter Organization of which you have been allowed stewardship over. If there is a change of membership, leadership, or if the unit disbands the money and equipment remains in the ownership of the Chartered Organization.

 

The BSA also has a responsibility for the stewardship of that money and property since you used the image and identity of the BSA in raising the funds (an image you do not own, but are allowed to use as a registered unit within the regulations of the BSA). The BSA will contact that Charter Organization and request that the money and equipment be used by the charter organization for the benefit of a youth program within the organization OR that the local BSA find another youth group which would benefit from the money and or property.

 

Bob White

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I was just sitting here minding my own business and nldscout calls me out.

 

Okay, I'll see what I can find. It's going to take some digging so it might be a little while.

 

DS

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Bob White is correct. Scout units are not legal entities and cannot own property or insurance policies. Any insurance agent or company who sells a policy to a troop is doing so in complete ignorance of whom they are dealing with. If there were a claim the insurance company would probably have a perfect out from paying any claim. Do it right and do it legally or risk having no real insurance at all.

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The mighty mage has returned with the final answer. When requested, he set the top of his staff alight and descended into the catacombs in search of an answer. And danged if he didn't find one!

 

Are you sure you want me to end this debate? I'm about to start one on camoflauge, so maybe it's a tradeoff.

 

I thought it might be as easy as reading the disposiiton of unit funds and property section of a red sheet. Actually, a red sheet is an Unreregistered Unit Report No 26-403K.

 

It said Refer to Article XI, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America.

 

Now all you have to do is find them. They're in the catacombs!

 

DS

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I thought I'd let the above tease people for a couple of days, but reconsidered. I didn't want to start a stampede of people demanding copies of the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America.

 

Most of it does not apply to units, but some of it does. Reference to finance and property of a unit is found in Article X!, Section 1, Clause 2, item (b) . . . and I'll quote:

 

"ARTICLE XI. BUSINESS, FINANCE, PROPERTIES, CONTRACTS, REGISTRATION

 

Section 1.

 

Local Council and Unit Finance

 

Clause 2. Disposition of Funds Upon Termination of a Local Council or Unit.

 

(b) Unit Obligations. In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the local council, if there is one, or if there is no local council, dispose of the same in accordance with the direction of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. In the case of a chartered organization, any funds or equipment which may have been secured as property of the unit shall be held in trust by the chartering organization OR the chartered local council, AS MAY BE AGREED UPON, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America."

 

Period. End of report. End of debate? I doubt it.

 

Here's how I interpret this policy -- if the troop dies, the council gets the money. The Chartered Partner gets the equipment and property, if it wants it, if not, the council can do with it as it sees fit.

 

You'll notice that the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America sounds like leagaleese. They are written mostly for the governance of the national organization of the BSA and establishment of councils. Some people think they're literally a list of what you can and can't do as unit leaders of the BSA. Not realy. Most Scouters never need them. In 15 years in the profession, I've referred to them maybe 3 times -- and this was one.

 

They are available only through your own local council -- so the folks who want to be able to quote "chapter and verse" which for the most part isn't found in the Rules, are looking for the wrong document. There isn't 1 there are several.

 

My suggestion to pamalam is to enjoy the new trailer. Get it insured, realize that your chartered partner is "in the will" for the trailer, and keep on serving Scouts.

 

Have a nice weekend.

 

DS

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Our CO won't allow us to store our gear at their location.  We would like to insure the trailer and contents in case of theft since the trailer is stored at an unsecured location.  I know all of it is owned by the CO.  Could they purchase an insurance policy for us and we'd reimburse them?  We're in New Jersey.  Thanks.

 

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.  Could they purchase an insurance policy for us and we'd reimburse them?  We're in New Jersey.  Thanks.

 

Yes, they could and they should.  As you read above, since they own the trailer/equipment they are the "proper" ones to hold the policy.  

 

HOWEVER - in my case, like many others, the CO does not understand the relationship.  Not only will they not pay for the insurance, they wont even add our trailer/gear to the policy they already have for their own trailer.  They insist they dont want any part of our "stuff" and I cannot get them to understand that they own it whether they want to or not.

Edited by RememberSchiff
spelling

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Is this trailer dead storage or is it  tagged and registered by X for the road? If the latter, the trailer must  already have some insurance paid by X and adding coverage for contents should be straight-forward.  Should be?

 

It is common here for the unit to acquire a trailer and pass ownership from one adult leader to another.  Typically CO's want  nothing to do with maintaining, inspecting, insuring, registering,..., parking, securing,  reporting it  stolen :(

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What if someone else buys a trailer, it's titled to them, they pay the registration and insurance on it, but it's used by the Troop and has the Troop name and BSA insignia on it. Is it still the CO's trailer, even if it's titled to an individual?

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