NickP412 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Scoutfish where can I see this facebook stuff? the only link I see is to the news article. Also if he gos to church maybe he can talk to a religious leader and be guided back to the right path? He has a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 I am sorry if this is off topic, but I feel it must be mentioned. The topic of the thread is what to do with this scout now that he has been awarded Eagle, yes his scoutmaster posted: "The boy has major maturity issues and believes that as long as you don't get caught it's okay. I don't feel comfortable having him set any examples for the other boys, that's all. Has nothing to do with his sexuality, but he's using that issue to go public." We keep arguing if he's gay, what if he's gay and other attributes related to his "gayness" To me the real issue is how did this guy, having major maturity issues and believing that as long as you don't get caught it's okay ever get in a position to be awarded Eagle in the first place? Someone who isn't a good role model for other boys in the Troop is an Eagle? We may need to dump the gay talk and talk about how a program founded in charactor and honor can have one as described reach this top honor I don't care if he is a raving heterosexual, he should not be an Eagle(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 OGE, Problem is that even if you do have issues with someone who is not living up to the Oath and Law, if they appeal the BOR's decision, they usually win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanKroh Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 "Also if he gos to church maybe he can talk to a religious leader and be guided back to the right path? He has a choice." Oh boy. Nick, first of all, there are now many churches who don't consider homosexuality to be "the wrong path". In fact, depending on the church he attends, that religious leader that he talks to may him/herself be gay. He has a choice? About being homosexual? No, he does not. He does have a choice about whether he wants to live a lie and deny his orientation, and try to live his life as a heterosexual, thereby increasing his likelihood of severe depression and suicide. Oh yeah, that's a great choice. I think this is a good example of why the "love the sinner, hate the sin" argument fails. There is no evidence that this boy has actually had a homosexual relationship. He has declared his orientation, we have no idea if he has ever acted on it (unless jblake has more info). And yet, several people are willing to convict him on a simple declaration that he was born with this orientation. Where's the love? On the other hand, jblake now reveals that "The boy has major maturity issues and believes that as long as you don't get caught it's okay. I don't feel comfortable having him set any examples for the other boys, that's all. Has nothing to do with his sexuality, but he's using that issue to go public." Jblake, I have to ask, you say it has nothing to do with his sexuality, but did you consider him immature and a poor role model *before* you found out about his orientation? If so, I have to agree with OGE, what about his behavior before his revelation made him Eagle material?(This message has been edited by DanKroh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 OGE: However, he IS an Eagle. Nothing that the aggravated SM can truly do about that fact at this point. Attempting to do something, using the sexuality question as fodder, looks like petty revenge (at best). We all know cases where a boy made Eagle who we aren't too happy about - and some of them grow into it, while others probably never do. Here's hoping this boy grows into it, whether he stays registered in scouting or not. As to the FB page - Nick, people should NOT be trolling for some kid's page. That's creepy. I agree with NJCubScouter that we need to safeguard this boy's privacy, too. He is a child, who may have written things on FB that he didn't intend to share with the whole wide world. Having his name and hometown "out there" via the news article makes further discussion of his personal life and what he might or might not have written or said in other venues, seriously problematic. Maybe he isn't interested in being quite so far "out" as this thread has now made him? From a parental perspective: Can you imagine how you would feel, if a bunch of people whom you have never met, sat around discussing the most personal aspects of *your* child's life, in permanent, public, written form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well-up-in-his-60s-guy Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Old Gray Eagle - "To me the real issue is how did this guy, having major maturity issues and believing that as long as you don't get caught it's okay ever get in a position to be awarded Eagle in the first place? Someone who isn't a good role model for other boys in the Troop is an Eagle? We may need to dump the gay talk and talk about how a program founded in charactor and honor can have one as described reach this top honor" Why would that be of any consequence to the majority of posters on this forum? It seems to me that the majority of them cheered when the young man referenced in "Eagle Problems.....Big" was awarded the rank of Eagle by National over the protests of his troop, district and council who were concerned with issues of character and honor. Lying, or being untrustworthy, is apparently not something that should be held against today's scout. A "good role model" sounds like something that you would have to be subjective about and I don't think that fits in with the big picture on what we are allowed to decide in today's scouting program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanKroh Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 One more thing on the comment that he "believes that as long as you don't get caught it's okay." Where could he have gotten that attitude from, do you think? Perhaps from the fact that for the last 17 years, we have told the members of our military that very thing. As long as you don't tell, it's ok. As long as know one finds out, it's ok. As long as you don't get caught, it's ok. But if anyone sniffs it out, if anyone even has a hint, if you tell, you are fired. And haven't many said that the BSA policy is also really a DADT policy? You can stay in as long as no one finds out. As long as you don't tell, as long as no one finds out, as long as you don't get caught, it's ok. Mixed messages, much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 >>And haven't many said that the BSA policy is also really a DADT policy? You can stay in as long as no one finds out. As long as you don't tell, as long as no one finds out, as long as you don't get caught, it's ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanKroh Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Barry, that may be the way *you* interpret the DADT of the BSA, but others certainly interpret it differently. And the military version of DADT doesn't say that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 As to the FB page - Nick, people should NOT be trolling for some kid's page. That's creepy. I agree with NJCubScouter that we need to safeguard this boy's privacy, too. He is a child, who may have written things on FB that he didn't intend to share with the whole wide world. Hmmm.... If he doesn't want the world to see things he has written, he shouldn't post them were the world can see them. And at 16, he isn't a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Ed, in the eyes of the law, and of the BSA, he is a child. Ed, do you use facebook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 >>Barry, that may be the way *you* interpret the DADT of the BSA, but others certainly interpret it differently. And the military version of DADT doesn't say that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted May 28, 2010 Author Share Posted May 28, 2010 Jblake, I have to ask, you say it has nothing to do with his sexuality, but did you consider him immature and a poor role model *before* you found out about his orientation? If so, I have to agree with OGE, what about his behavior before his revelation made him Eagle material? >>> He went through all the motions, fulfilled all the requirements and thus was signed off. There's nothing that states the boy has to be mature and he did not get a glowing recommendation from me for his EBOR. Basically I said he fulfilled the requirements. While he may not be mature, he's very smart and knows how to get the minimum accomplished to get by. One cannot add or subtract anything from the requirements.... Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Lisa, Yes I use Facebook. Why? In the eyes of the law he is a minor, but he is not a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP412 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Lisa if he didnt want to be the center of attention maybe he should have thought twice about speaking out to the press? Also if its on the internet its in public domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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