USA Today

[evmori 11]

So are most of the boys Methodist then?

 

No they aren't. Actually none of the current Scouts are Methodist. Presbyterian & Catholic for the most part.

 

Does the CO prefer that you discuss specifically Methodist ideas (whatever those might be)?

 

No. Our CO is not as involved as we would like.

 

Does the troop have a specific religious character to it, which would be evident to people when they are looking for a troop to join in your area?

 

Well, some people think I am a real character but other than that, no.

 

Within 5 miles of our CO, there are 8 other Troops all chartered by churches of various denominations. All are a little different. Most recruit from the local public schools so we all sorta "fight" for the same population of boys.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SR540Beaver 116]

Ed,

 

Ahhhh, a Presbyterian....therefore a Calvinist. Why not just cut to the chase when a boy joins the troop and ask if he has been Elected to Salvation by God thru Predestination and Foreordination? If not, he is depraved and therefore could have no desire or ability to do duty to God. Get all of that out of the way up front and you don't have to worry about failing the boy on his BOR after having done all of those requirements.

 

Do you see why asking a boy a blunt and pointed question of whether or not he believes in "God" and then holding a theological discussion with him is the wrong way to go in an organization that is non-sectarian? As I said, you are more than welcome and within guidelines to ask him how he personally has done his duty to God (as he understands God as taught within his family or church) in his daily life and to define his understading of how a scout is reverant.

 

You do realize that your method could be appealed and you'd most likely lose don't you?

[evmori 11]

SR540Beaver,

 

You really make a lot of assumption, don't you. Christian, sir , Christian. Presbyterian is just the denomination. The discussions I have had with Scouts regarding their religious beliefs usually don't delve into denominational differences. Nor should they.

 

So I ask

 

"How do you show your reverence to God?"

 

and the Scout answers

 

"I don't believe in God."

 

How is that any different than asking

 

"Do you believe in God?"

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SR540Beaver 116]

Ed,

 

Your denominational preference (doctrinal difference) is the flavor of Christianity that you subscribe to. What one denomination believes is differnt from what another one believes, yet both call themselves Christians.

 

You changed your story. You said that you ask them if they believe in God. We said you should ask them how they do their duty to God. You said no, I ask them if they believe in God. You never said that you ask about duty first and then are told by the boy that they do not believe. If you are indeed asking about duty to God, then you were already doing what we suggested....yet disagreed with.

[evmori 11]

SR,

 

I am a Christian that worships at a Presbyterian church. The flavor of Christianity I subscribe to is "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior."

 

Didn't change my story. That whole thing was a question.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt 11]

Ed, the difference between your two conversations is that one starts with a rude and improper question, and the other doesn't. I can't understand why you refuse to see this. It is like the difference between asking, "Tell me about how you earned the Camping merit badge," and "Did you lie to the counselor to get the Camping merit badge?" Now, if you ask a boy how he earned the Camping merit badge, and he confesses he lied to get it, you'd have to deal with that--and if you ask him how he does his duty to God, and he confesses he doesn't believe in God, you'd have to deal with that too. But a BOR is not an inquisition.

[evmori 11]

Ed, the difference between your two conversations is that one starts with a rude and improper question, and the other doesn't. I can't understand why you refuse to see this. It is like the difference between asking, "Tell me about how you earned the Camping merit badge," and "Did you lie to the counselor to get the Camping merit badge?" Now, if you ask a boy how he earned the Camping merit badge, and he confesses he lied to get it, you'd have to deal with that--and if you ask him how he does his duty to God, and he confesses he doesn't believe in God, you'd have to deal with that too. But a BOR is not an inquisition.

 

Do you believe in God? is a rude and improper question? I don't agree. Asking "Did you tell the truth when you signed your application?" is a rude and improper question. Asking "Do you believe in God?" is not inferring there is not a belief present.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[evmori 11]

Duplicate post.(This message has been edited by evmori)

[SaintCad 10]

"Do you believe in God? is a rude and improper question?"

 

I wouldn't call it rude, but wouldn't it be awkward if the scout replies, "I don't believe in God. I'm a Buddist."

[MarkS 11]

In its original forms, Buddhism did not teach of the existence of transcendent, immanent, or any other type of God, Gods, Goddess, and/or Goddesses. However, many Buddhists -- particularly in Japan or those of Japanese descent -- do believe in a pantheon of deities.

 

As far as the issue with the "Do you believe in God?" question is concerned. I don't think it should necessarily be considered an adversarial question. Especially if you already know you will receive an open and honest answer in the positive.

 

However, given that one of the guidelines for properly administering a BOR is to make every effort to put the Scout at ease while ensuring that he has completed the requirements for rank and encourage continued advancement, to determine the quality of his troop experience, and discuss how the Scout sees himself living up to the Scout Oath and Law, I think there are much better ways of phrasing this question that are more compliant with this guideline and intent of the BOR when the answer is not already known. I prefer asking, what does "duty to God" mean to you?

[packsaddle 753]

"Do you believe in God?" is a question I have heard asked and have had asked of me often. The answers have varied from a flippant "sure.." to nervous discussions of what it is they are really asking. I never ask this of the boys. My religious background is irrelevant to whether I ask or not...they could give me any answer and I could never know if they were sincere or not. It is a waste of time.

 

And the day that a voter registrar in NC asked it of me and informed me that in NC I would not be allowed to vote if I didn't believe in god, was the day I stopped giving a direct answer myself. Now, depending on the way it is asked, I inform them it is none of their business, politely..and in some cases very rudely. There is not one single other person on this planet who can know what I believe or see into my heart regardless of what I might choose to say to them. For them to ask such a question indicates a presumption on their part that they are far greater than they really are...an arrogance that I always decline to honor.

 

Edited part: BTW, a Baptist minister once informed me that a Methodist was just a Baptist who could read. Moreover, I think Darth Vader was a Presbyterian, "...join with me Luke, it is your destiny." Somehow SciFi and religion always seems to mix easily. Such fun.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

packsaddle writes:

And the day that a voter registrar in NC asked it of me and informed me that in NC I would not be allowed to vote if I didn't believe in god, was the day I stopped giving a direct answer myself.

 

That would've been the day I'd've filed a lawsuit, if not several.

[Vicki 11]

Oh, yea, Merlyn and Ed in a "god thread". We're in for some fun now, eh?

 

Stop baiting Ed. He's a good egg, just a little hard-boiled:

[evmori 11]

Oh, yea, Merlyn and Ed in a "god thread". We're in for some fun now, eh?

 

For me, it's God and for Merlyn, who is an atheist, its, well I don't know what a god to Merlyn would be. Maybe money. Maybe his Vega! I do keep praying for him, though.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

Did anyone note that General Motors is in trouble?

(*Note-the American orginal(s) post)

FB