Are there any cases where the ACLU supported Scouts?

[dsteele 20]

I'm not sure when this American Nazi (what a horrible oxymoron) march through Skokie was supposed to occur.

 

But if it happened between 1999 and 2003, when I lived in the area, I can tell you that there weren't a bunch of holocaust survivors looking out their windows in horror in Skokie.

 

By then, most of the Jewish population had moved to Buffalo Grove or Arlington Heights and weren't there to see it.

 

There were a bunch of Indians, Pakistanis and Hispanics, looking out their windows wondering what the heck was going on.

 

Skokie hasn't been predominantly Jewish for more than 10 years.

 

Unc.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

It was the mid 70's unc

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Uncleguineau, there were several proposed marches starting in 1976, and the final decision that the Nazis could march was issued in 1978 (at which time the march was cancelled.)

 

See http://www.skokiehistory.info/chrono/nazis.html

 

So the "target audience" had not moved away yet.

[fgoodwin 23]

Merlyn_LeRoy writes:Since the BSA is a private organization that can discriminate, the ACLU is making sure government agencies don't practice discrimination by sponsoring BSA packs and troops.I disagree that mere sponsorship of of a BSA Troop means that DoD is discriminating. First of all, there is legal and illegal discrimination; what BSA does is legal discrimination, according to the SCOTUS.

 

In any event, the mere sponsorship of a Troop that denies membership to gays or athiests should not, by itself, be considered discriminatory. If a Scout-like organization came along that admitted only gays and atheists, to the exclusion of straights and Christians, seeking DoD sponsorship, and the DoD denied the request, then that would be discrimination (i.e., unlike treatment of similarly situated groups).

 

But of course, ACLU isn't out trying to encourage atheists and gays to form their own clubs -- ACLU wants to do everything it can to tear down the BSA and the moral principles it stands for.

 

Fred Goodwin

Alamo Area Council

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Well Fred, you're in a good position to be a test case; your Pack 2003 is chartered by Blattman Elementary, which is a public school. Since the school "owns and operates" the pack (to use the BSA's terminology), refusing membership to an atheist boy would set up a court case to settle the issue one way or the other. Are you game? Because I'd say you'd lose for sure.

 

Just for your own information, ask your school if the school would be willing to own & operate a youth group that only allows atheists to be members; please note I'm not talking about just allowing a student group to meet, but have the school "own & operate" it in the manner of a Cub Scout charter - the school chooses the leadership, is responsible for making sure members meet the membership requirements, etc.

[Its Me 10]

I thought my public school was a atheistic youth group organization. Which according to you is a religion.

 

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[fgoodwin 23]

Merlyn_LeRoy writes:ask your school if the school would be willing to own & operate a youth group that only allows atheists to be members.I've got a better idea: since you seem so concerned about gay and atheist youth, why don't you form such a group, then ask your child's school if they will sponsor it. Then you can report back to us.

 

Fred Goodwin

Alamo Area Council

[dsteele 20]

OGE and NJ --

 

Thanks for straightening me out on the timeline. It makes more sense to me now. I stand by my statements that Skokie, IL is no longer predominantly Jewish -- I know neither of you denied that claim. In the 1970's it was.

 

There is still a Jewish presence there, but nothing like it was 40 years ago.

 

I'm glad I learned at least something in this thread. A stupid guy like me . . . you know.

 

Unc.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Actually Fred, I'm going to test it from the other angle; I'm working with various state ACLUs and American Atheists, and possibly Americans United for Separation of Chuch & State and Lambda Legal, to find plaintiffs with standing over the 8,200+ Scout units chartered by government agencies.

[fgoodwin 23]

Merlyn_LeRoy writes:I'm working with various state ACLUs and American Atheists, and possibly Americans United for Separation of Chuch & State and Lambda Legal, to find plaintiffs with standing over the 8,200+ Scout units chartered by government agencies.OK, so rather than creating something that would actually benefit those you claim to support, you'd rather work to destroy an organization that benefits thousands of youth?

 

So, tell me again why you hate BSA so much?

 

Fred Goodwin

Alamo Area Council

[Region 7 Voyageur 10]

Jake and Elwood took care of those Illinois Nazis.

[dsteele 20]

This question is directly addressed to Merlyn. I wonder if he has the guts to answer a question from a man he dubbed "too stupid to be in the military."

 

The question is:

 

So what does Rob Sherman's personalized liscence plate say today?

 

In 1998, it was "ATHEIST 1"

 

By 2000, it was "LIBERAL 1"

 

Of course, that was after a rough patch with the law that he'd gone through.

 

I only ask because he was or is the President of the American Atheist Association and I wonder what value he would have had to the BSA as a role model.

 

I apologize if you only think I'm a little ticked off. The fact is that I'm not ticked off -- I'm angry.

 

Unc.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Hey Fred, you'd rather deceive your own elementary school into practicing illegal religious discrimination and exposing them to civil rights lawsuits. With Texas being the biggest offender in chartering BSA units to government agencies, they're one of the main targets. To each their own.

 

Hey unc, I don't know what Rob Sherman's license plate says. He lives in Illinois, I live in Minnesota.

[fgoodwin 23]

Merlyn, why do you hate BSA so much?

 

Fred Goodwin

Alamo Area Council

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Fred, I'm an atheist activist and I work for atheists' rights. Right now, government support of the Boy Scouts' discrimination against atheists is one of the most blatant violations of the first amendment, and I'm working to change that, either by the Boy Scouts allowing atheists, or by stopping all government charters to BSA units (and other unlawful government support).

 

If there was, say, an all-white group that had public schools "owning and operating" their all-white youth groups in public schools, don't you think a few people might work against that?