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Dad will not rise for pledge of allegiance

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Hey Pack: several homes in my town fly their flags the same way, while others only fly the confederate flag.


In regard to the original post, I wouldn't say a thing to the Dad. If everyone is asked to stand at the beginning of the meeting and he chooses to remain seated, that's his choice.

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Dissent is patriotic when you're disagreeing with an action or policy of the government.


When you dis-respect the whole country by refusing to honor the flag, you need to find a country more to your liking. If you don't like your USA citizenship, we've got thousands of Mexicans who will gladly take your place and proudly pledge their allegiance in exchange for the privilege of living here.


Git! JoeBob


lol....another Beckaholic who's been sipping too much Rushade...so, what part of the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights has you confused?

Maybe this person's refusal to stand for the Pledge irks you, but whatever reason he has for not meeting your standards of jingoism are his, and his alone. You need to work a bit more on being a wee bit more open minded, as the world just ain't all black and white and easly squeezed into that elitist Nationalistic box you're rattling around in...still lol

(This message has been edited by Le Voyageur)

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So many fires! Which one to fan?



Your neighbor who flies the Confederate Flag over the US Flag is clearly wrong. CSA was defeated by USA, and implying otherwise with your flags merely feeds an anti-Southern bias. As much as I hate to see an honored symbol of my Southern heritage be despoiled, the Confederate battle flag has been co-opted by fringe racist groups. I don't have the Stars and Bars on any of my trucks, but I do have a couple folded in a cabinet for special occasions.

There won't be a confrontation with your neighbor, Pack. A couple of sixpacks later and we'll be weeping for the good old days.


le Voyageu: Your argument degenerated to name calling so quickly that you failed to notice the irony of your using the 1st Amendment to decry my exercising of - the 1st Amendment. Am I the closed minded one?

I fully understand that the world is not all black and white. Do you understand that the world is not all grey? There are extreme believers on both sides of most issues who are willing to speak up. I have an extreme love for the USA, and I'm not ashamed of it.

If a father in BSA, a group which holds a special place in the lore of the US Flag (Flag Retirement), chooses to openly mock the reverence held by the rest of the group for the US flag, he should be confronted. It doesn't have to be tar and feathers from the start. "Back hurting you? Can't stand up?" If he still chooses to sit out the pledge, that's his 1st amendment right. But it's my 1st amendment right to make him uncomfortable.


PC manners would have us always compromise towards the middle, and tolerate anything. If you always compromise, eventually you will stand for nothing. Scouting is one of the last places where we can teach our youth how to make a stand.


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JoeBob wrote: If a father in BSA, a group which holds a special place in the lore of the US Flag (Flag Retirement)...


Can you explain what you mean by this? The BSA does not have a monopoly on flag retirements. It's not one of a select few groups chosen to perform them. Flag retirements aren't even a mandatory part of the Scouting program. Someone could conceviably spend years in Scouting as a youth and adult and never even see a retirement ceremony. I'm just a little confused.

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"A couple of sixpacks later and we'll be weeping for the good old days."

I'm curious, which days were those and why were they so good?

I can already tell you that my neighbor wishes that slavery was still legal - he openly admits this. THOSE would be his good old days.


Oops, need to mention that he doesn't drink alcohol in any form. Sorry.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

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Hey Shortridge,


Although not codified, Scouts and Veterans groups have always been the two traditional sources for proper civilian flag retirement.



Pack - Sounds like I may not like your neighbor, after all. I can't defend slavery in today's world.

When were the good old days? Heck, I miss Bush!

But I was referring to the absence of courteous manners, chivalry, and other charms associated with Southern culture.

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GWD - I don't buy into the Politically Correct version of history that slavery was totally and completely evil. For instance, the decendants of slaves in the US are certainly doing better than the freed slaves who returned to found Liberia.


But that argument doesn't belong in this thread, or even on this forum; so I'll defer for now.


(Actually, I don't type well enough, or have the time to invest in winning you over to my point of view. Maybe over the holidays.)

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Which point of the Scout Law does that fall under?


Almost all:


Trustworthy: Not lying about how I feel.

Loyal: To my country and the flag that represents it.

Helpful: Can I remind you of why we stand and pledge allegiance?

Friendly: I didn't just ignore you, like others did.

Courteous: I said it nice!

Kind: This is probably for your own good...

Obedient: Doin' what Mama taught me.

Cheerful: While smilling.

Thrifty: er - maybe not.

Clean: Not being dirty about it.

Brave: As opposed to others who hide behind PC to avoid confrontation?

Reverent: See loyal.

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Any time someone's told me "It's for your own good," I look at them kinda squinty. It's never true ... not even when my mom told me to drink that awful cherry-flavored medicine!


Re: the BSA's place in "flag lore," I'd have to disagree. Yes, some units, camps and local jurisdictions do perform retirement ceremonies. But it's not part of the program. Just because a few do it doesn't mean we all do. Trying to wrap that argument in terms of a universal practice just doesn't fly for me.

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