? about adults required

[IM_Kathy 32]

I cannot seem to find what I'm looking for and wondering if any of you know the answer to my question.

 

Son's BSA troop has cancelled once before because of not having an adult male on the campout though we did have enough adults - they just all happened to be female.

 

I know with GSUSA a female is required.

 

I know with Venturing that if there is COED then an adult for each sex is needed.

 

But, for BSA is a male required?

 

I hope someone can get back to me soon as final signup for our next campout is tonight and the male has had to drop.

 

Just for the record, I do prefer there to be a male and we've only once not had a male and the troop cancelled that campout. If a male is not required then we don't have to cancel. As for experience, yes the female adults going are experienced and well trained.

 

thanks in advance.

[BartHumphries 10]

There must be at least one adult of the same gender as every youth who goes on a Scouting outing. This mostly comes up in mixed-gender Venture crews, where you need at least one female adult leader if there are girls going on the campout, but yeah if it's a regular Scout troop and there's a boy going then you need at least one of the adults to be male.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Yo bart, man you are going to have to provide a reference for that one. I know of nothing in the Guide to SAfe Scouting that comes close to what you purport.

 

Not saying that there isnt such a reference, just one I have not seen. This is what I would follow:

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx#e

[JoeBob 606]

I'm with OGE. The relevant text from his link is:

 

"coed overnight activities even those including parent and childrequire male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA."

 

But since you are describing a BSA Troop, which I presume is NOT COED, I can think of no reference requiring a man.

 

We are superfluous!

[BartHumphries 10]

Perhaps I am reading more into that rule that was meant. Perhaps a man isn't required when boys are going camping as long as you have at least two women.

 

That being said, why do co-ed crews require co-ed leadership? Because some things are more easily discussed with a member of the same sex. To be blunt and avoid beating around the bush in response to the inevitable, "but only girls have periods and bathroom problems", etc., for a boy this might involve having to air out his sleeping bag after a wet dream. I remember one nine-year old home-schooled boy on a church campout who had no idea how to urinate while standing up -- the possibility of such had apparently never even crossed his mind since his father had run off when he was a very little kid. He had no brothers. He was about to go in his pants before it was explained to him that he didn't have to wait for an open stall but could go off into the woods. When asked later, his mom said simply that men who stand up to urinate always make a mess so she'd just taught him that you always have to sit down. I could go on with other examples, but lets just say that girls aren't the only ones who can get really embarrassed when trying to explain something to an adult leader of the opposite sex. I may be reading more into the rule than is explicitly mentioned, but I think the spirit of the rule is that you have to have at least one adult of "matching" gender for the youth that are going, and at least two adults of whatever gender overall.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

bart, man, you are correct about your concerns. I understand them and agree. But the original question is does a male HAVE to be present on a Troop campout and the answer is, no, there is no explicit rule that says that.

 

That its be a very very very good idea that there be one, is something I very much agree with,

[ScoutNut 147]

While the at least "one adult of the same gender" as the youth on the outing, might be a good idea for your unit to follow, and it might be required by your Charter Organization, it is NOT required for either Cub, or Boy Scouts by BSA.

[T2Eagle 902]

My interpretation is the same as those above: two women is fine for leading an all male scout unit on a trip. It passed muster for our Cub Pack this past summer when the Webelos II female den leader and the mother of one of the other Webelos took their den to our council summer camp for a three day Webelos II camp.

[IM_Kathy 32]

thank you all for your input. I did track down a dad that would go since was still a little confused by it. Normally this isn't an issue for us, but the last year or so the active adults are parents of boys that are beginning to age out so it's getting a bit harder, but normally have at least 1 except the 1 we had to cancel (but that one was right at homecoming and had only a few boys going so not that big of a deal)

 

and yes, do prefer to have a male attend, just wondering about whether would have to cancel without 1.

[BartHumphries 10]

I guess the short answer is, "Ask your Chartering Organization -- if they're ok with it then go with whatever you like because the BSA has no official policy on it."

[JoeBob 606]

Anybody else wishing they lived in Iowa?

 

I've never had a bunch of female camping afficionados come begging after me to go to the woods with them.

 

(Good thing Mrs. JoeBob doesn't read this forum...)

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Is this heaven?

 

No, it's Iowa...

 

And I thought that was about baseball...

[Kudu 186]

BartHumphries writes:

 

He was about to go in his pants before it was explained to him that he didn't have to wait for an open stall but could go off into the woods.

 

Get with the 21st century, Bart.

 

Allowing boys to go off into the woods when the latrines are full is not "inclusive." Camp Woodruff banned the practice last summer when the teenage girl staffers complained.

 

BartHumphries writes:

 

When asked later, his mom said simply that men who stand up to urinate always make a mess so she'd just taught him that you always have to sit down.

 

Given their remarkable victory over the Real Patrol Method last year (just in time to celebrate the BSA centennial), this sounds like a worthy goal for the Wood Badger Den Mothers and Paper Eagles who dictate the Guide to Safe Scouting!

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

[KC9DDI 11]

And here I was worried about whether or not we would be able to tie the decline of the Patrol Method with a man's posture while urinating...

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Kudu,

 

Camp Woodruff, huh? Well I guess we violated that one many times last summer.

 

We have have a few she-woman mountain-mom's in our Troop who are more experienced than 80% of the ASM's. They have come on a few trips (like canoeing) when we wanted more qualified adults. Most of the time they stay home.

 

It does change the complexion of the trip some. We have stated that the tree-peeing will continue; the ladies response was "well not on our tent OK". Reasonable.

 

I find the problem, for us, is the introduction of another woman into the mix sometimes causes blow-back at home for the ASM's. It is one thing to leave her at home for the sake of the boys but fraternizing with another woman all weekend can feel a bit icky.