ECOH Ettiquete

[Akutan]

Greetings to all,

 

Just a little background. Our Scouting program has been re-energized for the past three years, some of us are still learning our responsibilities and some have oodles experience. We just had our first ECOH this past October in who knows how many years. We are looking forward to at least 2 or more this year. With our program finally getting its legs under it I was wondering, besides the obvious pomp and circumstance, is there really any thing different between what is caled a normal COH and an Eagle COH? The reason I am asking is that (as Murphey would have it) I received an email the day after we held a cout of honor that our Varsity Team as well one of its members took first place in a Winter Biathalon back in February. These are the kind of awards that should be handed out at a COH for two reasons, First to acknowledge the boys in a public setting for their achievement, and second, to encourage the older boys to come to COHs. Since we had just had a COH the previous night and knew we had an ECOH two weeks later I thought why not present them with the awards at the ECOH at the beginning of the ECOH, especially since we did not have another normal COH scheduled in the near future. Of course the first person I checked with was boy who was receiving his Eagle, if he didn't want it included in his ECOH -- case closed. But I am stil curious, can/should awards to others within the troop be given at ECOHs?

 

Thanks.

[OldGreyEagle]

I beleive you answered your question already and quite well, ask the boy(s) whose Eagle Court it is, if he/they are fine then do it. If you get any sense of reticence at all, dont do it, its the youth's choice

[packsaddle]

I agree with OGE. In this unit, the ECOH is entirely left up to the boy and his family. Sometimes we celebrate more than one new Eagle in a single ECOH but we have never awarded anything but the Eagle at an ECOH. I suppose that it is possible for a boy to make such a request but I don't expect ever to see that happen.

[gcnphkr]

It will depend on your unit's custom. In most cases the ECOH is separate from other COHs and it would be unusual to make an award to someone other than the Eagle(s).

 

You should have a COH at least every 3 months and you can recognize the youth at any troop/team meeting. In this case, I would have recognized the victory in the team meeting and possibly again at the COH.

[Scoutfish]

It would be up to the Eagle Scout...but I wouldn't ask him.

 

Think if you had a small gathering after having a new baby. Your showing it off and then one of the guests stands up, starts handing out pictures of their dog's new pupies.

 

Maybe Your having a big to do dinner reception to announce your engagement and marrage plans and one of the attendants stands up and starts talking about meeting a new girl.

 

Point is, Eagle is THE big deal. Not saying others aren't, but come on..are we really gonna put Eagle on the same plain as any other award?

 

Eagle is pretty much the culmination of a scout's - scouting career. He is the graduate with his PhD or Masters degree.

 

Do not put him beside the paralegal certificate.

 

Okay, my wording or terms may not be exactly right on, but you know what I mean.

 

 

Like comparing a splinter you get while chopping wood to the battle scar a vet gets in Iraq.

 

Just not cool and just not the same!

 

That's my opinion anyways. For what it's worth..maybe a $1.45?

(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[FScouter]

I think it would be rude and inconsiderate to even ask a boy if it was "OK" to present other awards at his Eagle court of honor.

[moosetracker]

It is the Eagle's day.. But, some troops I have heard do the normal COH, then clear everything out and then do an ECOH afterwards. That is there tradition. Other Eagles get to choose what they would like, and not wanting alot of trouble just ask for something after a normal COH, that is the boys preference..

 

But, if you are not doing a full COH (you just had your COH).. And unless you start making it a troop tradition that all your Eagles will get their awards after a normal COH.. I would not even think of doing it once, and for just one award.

 

I guess I look at it similar to Scoutfish, but on the other side of the coin.. The Varsity first place is a BIG thing when celebrated in the right place.. To put it on the day of the Eagle court, you have kindof made is a small thing in comparison. Let them both have their time to be honored at the right time, at the right place..

[Twocubdad]

I disagree.

 

Somewhere in the 20 years between the time I aged out as a youth and returned to the program with my own sons, Courts of Honor where Eagles are presented joined the ranks of other over-the-top, I Love Me celebrations. Right up there with $10,000 birthday parties, $25,000 bat mitzvahs and $250,000 weddings.

 

Why is an ECOH "his day" to do as he pleases? Why not for Life? Star? Tenderfoot? We all -- especially on this forum -- give great lip service to "the journey not the destination" and that "Eagle isn't the goal of Scouting" and the like. So why do we feed the beast?

 

I received my Eagle along with five very good friends and a bunch of other kids who worked hard to earn the awards they received that night, too. My Eagle wasn't dimished by sharing the spotlight. In fact, the photos from that night with the six of us backed by 12 parents is a pretty good memory of my Scouting career.

 

If you have a new troop and are starting new traditions, why not start the tradition that the Eagle is an accomplishment shared by the whole troop? That because the journey is as important as the destination, it is fitting that the other Scouts still on the trail are recognized too. Certainly there can be added pomp and traditions surrounding and Court of Honor with an Eagle, but why not make that in addition to the other ceremonies and traditions of the troop?

[Scoutfish]

TwoCub,

 

I don't think anybody is saying that several eagles can't have their ECOH at the same time..at least, I did not take it that way. But myself and others are saying that we wouldn't hold a regular COH within or together with an ECOH.

 

I don't see any problem with holding ECOH after a COH is finished either.

Not saying there has to be a $5,000.00 dinner ceremony either, but I am saying that a scout getting

Tenderfoot or Star does not put him on equal ground, nor is the playing field the same. If it was, scouts would stop at Tenderfoot or Star and that would be the end of it.

[SeattlePioneer]

I'm with TwoCubDad.

 

 

A Court of Honor is a Court of Honor. It's there to transact the business of the troop.

 

 

Schedule whatever you need to in a tasteful way.

 

Let's see now, when will that Friends of Scouting solicitation fit in?

[shortridge]

Twocubdad hit the nail on the head. A Court of Honor is a Court of Honor.

 

This thing we call an Eagle Court of Honor is just a local tradition that has ballooned into something bigger over the years thanks to - IMHO - //begin rant// pompous, ceremony-happy adults who get off on writing elaborate and meaningless symbolic rituals and passing them around for others to use. That just perpetuates the cycle and leads to questions here such as "Does anyone know a ceremony for presenting the Marbles Belt Loop?" //end rant//

 

There's no protcol manual involved with an ECOH. It's not a presidential inauguration. Just ask the Eagle what he wants to do.

[Scoutfish]

"Does anyone know a ceremony for presenting the Marbles Belt Loop?"

 

 

Well, you get a bag of marbles...then draw a 30" circle on the floor, then.....

[Eagle92]

ROTFLMAO gotta remember that one. although after my Den worked on Marbles Belt loop, I'm thinking a 3-4' circle.

 

As to ECOHs, They have been around longer than 20 years. I was a brand new CS when two cousin's got theirs, and a Webelos when the third cousin got his. So it's not a new phenomenon.

 

Can some ECOHs go overboard, absolutely. I've heard of, and seen some duesies. But on the opposite end, I don't think just handing someone the certificate and presentation kit is also correct either. Seen that one too.

[packsaddle]

I agree with the sentiment that SeattlePioneer just wrote about First Class. I would add that I do not diminish ANY rank earned by a boy. All of the ranks are good achievements. I still remember the first gold star my piano teacher gave me long before I was a scout. And I remember my Eagle ceremony - about 5 minutes long as part of a Scout Sunday church service, as I seem to remember.

[GKlose]

We've got a CoH/ECoH coming up in a few weeks. Our two Eagles (the dads are CC and SM) and the others did not have a problem with two CoHs -- the Eagle CoH by itself may take 20 minutes or so, so why not add an extra 15 minutes on top to recognize those who earned something since the prior CoH?

 

One thing our SM has done in the past has been to do a symbolic closing of the CoH in order to do a symbolic ECoH. Just a statement really, and I think it is kind of silly on a pomp & circumstance front. Since it is his son this time around, I'm not going to argue. We were going over the script at a committee meeting last night. I suggested editing out a few minutes of "blah blah blah" :-) so that we weren't artificially extending the ceremony.

 

As an aside -- it was an overwrought script with what I call "context switches" -- the SPL does a welcome, tosses the opening to two different scouts (pledge/oath & law), then tosses it to an MC, who then tosses it to a pastor for an invocation, and then tosses it back to someone else, who tosses it to someone else. So I was more or less suggesting that the SPL act as the MC who would then toss it to our advancement chair (an Eagle; soon to be our next SM) for the Eagle Ceremony. I actually cut at least two "context switches" out of the picture. I cut myself out of the original MC duties, not because I had a problem with handling those duties, but just because I didn't want to belabor the whole ceremony. The SPL will do a great job on his own. I'm supposed to see a reworked script today or tomorrow.

 

(the hardest single part of jump-starting a troop on youth-led patrol method has been to convince the adult leadership to take a step back -- had to work on the SM again the other night!)

 

Guy