3 yrs in Boy Scouts, Tenderfoot not awarded..

[concernedparent]

Hi there - I'm so glad I found this site!

 

So here's my question - I have boys that bridged over to Boy Scouts 3 years ago that still haven't earned their Tenderfoot because the scoutmaster insists that they have to do a pull up. However, I believe that the book states that you have to make progress towards it and not necessarily do it.. some of these boys will never do it, as they are on the larger side but they do try.. Do you see a problem with this or am I the only one?

 

If they are not going to be able to advance then why would I feed the troop? That's like setting them up for failure...

 

Thanks!

[John-in-KC]

Here is Tenderfoot Requirement 10:

 

10. Record your best in the following tests:

Current results

Push-ups ________

Pull-ups ________

Sit-ups ________

Standing long jump (______ ft. ______ in.)

1⁄4-mile walk/run _____________

 

30 days later

Push-ups ________

Pull-ups ________

Sit-ups ________

Standing long jump (______ ft. ______ in.)

1⁄4-mile walk/run _____________

 

10b. Show improvement in the activities listed in requirement 10a after practicing for 30 days.

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/tenderfoot.aspx

 

The requirement is to baseline, PRACTICE for 30 days, and then re-baseline, with improvement.

 

I'm not going to say 3 years is beyond long. I think if it had been my son, we'd have had a talk long ago, and he'd have been in a new Troop, long ago.

 

Now, if your son is doing nothing towards physical fitness at all, that might be another story.

[Stosh]

A few years back we had a scout that couldn't do a pull-up to save his soul. He tried the first one and everyone in the troop cheered him on. No way was that kid going to do a pull-up.

 

He worked at it for 30 days and once again he tried out the pull-up routine. Everyone cheered again, but to no avail. After a couple of tries, one of the boys yelled out from the back, "I saw his elbows bend, that shows progress!"

 

He got credit for it, went on to become Eagle and the last time I heard about him he was defensive lineman for a Big Ten College school.

 

When it comes to pull-ups watch the elbows!

 

Stosh

[Troop24]

I am with Stosh on this one. It clearly says show improvement! If one the first attempt the Scout can only pull himself up a quarter of an inch and then on the second attempt 30 days later he pulls himself up a half inch that is an improvement! I have always hated pull ups. That was the least favorite exercise routine I had to face during my 12 years in the Army. I would do my best until I was allowed to fall off the bar then I would go do something else. Not everyone can do every exercise as well as everyone else.

 

Hopefully these Scouts have been doing all the other advancement and having it noted in their books so when they move to another troop they can get moving on the way they should toward their next rank goal. This Scoutmaster needs to reconsider his role.

[Gary_Miller]

The requirement is really quite simple.

 

10a: Record your best, your best could be ZERO.

 

10B: After practicing 30 days later show improvement. Improvement in this example would be ONE, not trying.

 

I have yet to see any boy who really tried (practiced for 30 days) not do at least one pull-up, of course if they have a physical handicap thats a different story. Obesity is not a handicap.

 

In my group of boys this is one of the first things we did. Then every meeting we took the test (practice) again. In 30 days we recorded the results in most cases everyone passed.

 

If these boys have been active in the troop then all the other requirements for Tenderfoot, 2nd Class, and 1st class should be completed and once improvement in a pull-up is completed the scouts will be 1st class scouts.

[moosetracker]

I was going to hold off until others answered your original question. I did not have a handbook to say for sure.

 

Agree with Troop24, if they have been having the other things signed off, then they can progress very rapidly once they get past this bottleneck, I think they can have all 3 ranks awarded in the same BOR.. But, that may take a move to a different troop, if you can not get this SM to follow what is stated in the book.

 

I also wanted to add, this will come up again when doing the physical fitness MB. In there it is also only to show improvement, so these boys may have to sound out a potential MB counselor about the problem before deciding if they are the right counselor for them. Just so the same issue does not resurface.

[Frank17]

We have the same problem with our new 5th / 6th graders completing pull-ups. So we record fractional increments, to show the effort being made (1/4, 1/2 etc.). If they work at it and can show improvement, that is all that is required.

[Eagle92]

Yes you can conduct 1 BOR for T-2-1 ranks simoultaneously. I learned about that after my troop conducted 3 BORs in one nite for a scout shortly after the time requirements for the T-2-1- ranks were removed. Either the DAC or CAC, sorry can't remember which one, got a good laff out of my unit b/c this was a very new situation for us, and we didn't want any problems with the scout getting his rank from Council.

[gcnphkr]

That seems to be an odd interpretation of that requirement.

 

"Show improvement in the activities listed in requirement 10a after practicing for 30 days."

 

The requirement can certainly be interpreted the way that the Scoutmaster is doing it. It might not be the most reasonable interpretation but you are not likely to get him to change his mind.

 

The boys can train to do a pull up, but it takes work. The simplest method is to have them do assisted pull ups until they can do it on their own. This can be done by a person or by using surgical tubing/bungee cords to stand on while doing pull ups. This latter technique is used by climbers when they train, not only does it allow them to do more reps but it minimizes tendon strain.

 

Now you might be able to convince the Scoutmaster that at the beginning of the 30 days that the scout was able to do 10 pull ups while standing on a bungee cord and could do 20 pull ups while standing on the bungee cord after practicing for 30 days. It is worth a shot anyway.

 

Have they finished everything else through First Class?

[rdclements]

If this is an example of how your scoutmaster operates, you've got bigger problems than doing pull ups. Three years?

[Stosh]

"Show improvement in the activities listed in requirement 10a after practicing for 30 days."

 

Now for the interpretation of the requirement.

 

Does it mean show improvement in the activities individually or as a whole?

 

I would think it should say: "Show improvement in each of the individual activities listed...." Or it should say: "Show improvement in general in the activities listed...." As it stands it could be read either way.

 

Stosh

[FScouter]

Can the Scoutmaster do a pull-up?? Perhaps he could do the requirement with them.

[moosetracker]

This is one of those things that National posted, and the statement is too general and subject to interpretation. It is really up to the SM to decide how he interprets, because there are several interpretations.

 

Does improvement mean from zero to 1, from nothing to bending the elbow a little, or as jblake states show improvement on everything over all.. This SM is not wrong in his interpretation, but the others are equally right. You could only state it is wrong a wrong interpretation if the SM wanted the improvement to be from zero to seeing the boys do 5 or 10.

 

Therefore these boys may need to change troops if they have an SM that just wont bend to a different interpretation. Before hopping though you should sound out the other troop on how they interpret this, or the transfer is for nothing.

[dg98adams]

I have had a few not even come close to the traditional pull up..... so here's how I worked with some Scouts.

 

Sometimes called an "Australian pull-up", "reverse push-up", "inclined pull-up" or "inverted row", this is performed with the bar 2 to 3 feet off the floor. The user lies on the ground under the bar, face-up, and grasps the bar with extended arms. The exercise is performed by pulling the chest up to the bar. The body is held in a rigid plank position while the heels remain on the floor.

 

I ll have a couple bigger Scouts hold a staff across the Scout just out of easy arms reach laying on the ground and let them have at it. No, they don't get to pummel the Scout, just hold the staff horizontal while the supine Scout works the "Aussie pull-up".

 

It's actually a little harder than it looks (to do it right), but it's less intimidating and easy to do without a chin-up bar.(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[evmori]

To me the key to this requirement is "show improvement". That can be interpreted in a lot of ways. Do one more pull up, do the same amount of pull ups but faster, have better form, etc.

 

It makes no difference if the Scoutmaster can or can not do a pull up, Frank. He is not earning a rank.