Board or Review Members

[cdroberts94]

I recently saw the newsletter of another local troop and it said that every boy who was going up for a Board of Review needed to bring a parent to serve on another scout's board of review. I can't believe that every parent in that troop is a registered Troop Committee member (the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures states "This board of review is made up of at least three and not more than six members of the troop committee.") I went looking online for an official policy, or definition of Committee Member, and could not find one. So my question is am I interpreting it correctly that the BOR members need to have paid registrations with BSA (and cannot be a Scoutmaster or ASM)?

 

Thanks,

 

Carole

[The Blancmange]

You're right and have already done the work to demonstrate why you are right. The only people who are "committee members" are those who are registered with BSA with the code MC or CC.

 

We have an active COR who also regularly sits on BOR's, and I can't imagine a legitimate complaint to that practice. He has previously been CC, SM, and probably every other role in the troop. That is, of course, different from a parent who has absolutely no training in the purpose or procedure for a BOR. The troop that you mention probably doesn't have enough active members and is using this as an inferior alternative.

[jr56]

Yes, I have seen several troops do the same thing.

[Eagle92]

At one time, non-registered folks could sit on BORs, and I "visited" several EBORs where we had community leaders on the EBOR (I was a DE at the time hence the "visiting").

 

Also I don't know if it was policy or not, but knowing my troop I believe it was allowed, I remember sitting BORs for T-2-1 ranks as a Star Scout PL. I also remember older scouts sitting on my 2-1 BORs, I earned Tenderfoot in another troop and transfered. Policies do change, and sometimes the changes do take a while to filter down, a good example is the new chemical fuels one that came out in Dec. as not many people know about it still.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, Eagle92, it's different for Eagle BOR's, eh? Any community member can sit on an Eagle BOR (other than a parent/relative of the scout). It's only for the lesser ranks that they're nominally supposed to be Committee Members.

 

Generally speakin', I think that's honored more in the breach than not. If I were to guess, I'd say that most troops use unregistered parents or community members on BORs in addition to MC's, just as they would for an Eagle BOR. It is odd, isn't it, that we allow a more open BOR for Eagle?

 

So while the letter of the guidebooks is only MC's on a Tenderfoot to Life BOR, the actual practice is more diverse. In some units, there just aren't enough committee members to handle the number of boys, eh? And they want to keep the committee small and focused for other reasons. So such troops must add outsiders. For others, it's just a nice way to help plug parents into the program and get 'em an understanding and appreciation for what's goin' on.

 

I agree with Blancmange that it's nice to have folks on BORs who actually have a bit of training in what they're doing. Some folks just aren't great at talkin' to kids, and it helps to know the program. But Committee Member training isn't required and doesn't include how to run a BOR anyways, so most MC's don't have a clue. Just like a non-MC parent, they tend to learn OTJ.

 

I wouldn't let it bother yeh, cdroberts94.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[cdroberts94]

I'm not looking to admonish anyone - in fact, if it is "legal" to use unregistered people it would sure make my life easier trying to find enough people to sit on the board. We have about 10 BOR a year and with many of our MCs traveling for their job, it can get tricky. Two of my best ones just got promoted to ASM.

[infoscouter]

I vaguely resent the implication that being an Assistant Scoutmaster is more important than being a committee member (which I am). It shouldn't be the case that becoming an ASM is a "promotion" from Committee Member. They are just different functions in support of the youth program.

 

As to the original question, no its not O.K. to use unregistered parents on Boards of Review. However, some units *do* require one adult from each family to register - for a variety of reasons. So these adults may be legitamate committee members.

[eisely]

As Beavah points out, many units do not adhere to this requirement. That is fine as long as every thing goes along smoothly. I can see a source of controversy arising when a BOR turns down a boy for rank advancement and that board composition does not meet the formal requirements. If there is a shortage of registered committee members, then I would suggest registering more parents, if only to meet this need.

[The Blancmange]

 

I can see a source of controversy arising when a BOR turns down a boy for rank advancement and that board composition does not meet the formal requirements.

My concern comes more from the opposite end of the spectrum. I would guess that these parent-comprised BOR's rarely, if ever, deny advancement. (Although it certainly could happen, I doubt the district advancement committee would have to put to much time or thought into reversing the decision). If a BOR is conducted with untrained people who are not MC's, the scout loses out on meaningful discussion of his progress, goals, and attitude with people who understand the program and the committee loses out on receiving meaningful feedback about the success or shortcomings of its program.

[OldGreyEagle]

Beavah, I apologize up front for this:

 

"...that they're nominally supposed to be Committee Members."

 

Its not a nominal thing, the Board of Review Members are supposed to be registered Committee Members, thems the rules and to the original poster I have to say that the use of "parents" who are not registered Committee members is wrong, not right, against BSA policy however you want to say it

 

Remember, the function the Board of Review is as much a review of the Troops program as it is the Scout. That's why the Scoutmaster and Asst Scoutmaster's are not allowed in, so the youth feels free to talk. It takes the Troop Committee to understand what is going on in the Troop

 

Now, would I use an unregistred parent for a Board of Review if it would help out a youth? yeah. I would. But I would certainly not want it to be common practice either

 

[cdroberts94]

My aplogies, infoscouter. I work very hard as Advancement Chair and I know that every single commmittee position is important to our troop. I'm just bummed to lose two really great guys from the BOR.

[Stosh]

How can a BOR refuse advancement to a scout that has fulfilled all the requirements? Obviously they shouldn't be retesting to see if that's true. If the boy produces his handbook with everything approved how can a BOR refuse? Sounds like adding to the requirements by a group of leaders who are not hands on with the boys in the first place.

 

In my previous troop, on occasion I was asked to sit in on a BOR when I was serving as ASM. I would normally remain quiet and sign off at the end. The boy was cheated some feedback, but at least he had his BOR and moved on. It was interesting however, that the first words the CC spoke to the boy as he came into his BOR was, "Congratulations for advancing to the rank of ______. Sit down and let's talk about it."

 

Stosh

[Beavah]

Its not a nominal thing, the Board of Review Members are supposed to be registered Committee Members

 

Could you find a citation anywhere in da BSA literature where it states "registered" Committee members? And if we really feel it's that important, why do we explicitly allow and encourage non-scouting community members on Eagle Boards of Review?

 

Remember, the function the Board of Review is as much a review of the Troops program as it is the Scout.

 

Can yeh find anything in da BSA literature which states that review of the Troop's program is a function of the Troop Committee at all? It certainly isn't listed as a responsibility of da Committee in the Guidebook, eh? Or in da Committee training materials. ACP&P contains one indirect sentence on the matter, but that's more with respect to general and non-advancement reviews, eh?

 

But if that's the case, can yeh explain why the Eagle BOR, which would be the best one to sit on for program evaluation, is not included? And why in many places is done by da district, not the unit committee at all?

 

That's why the Scoutmaster and Asst Scoutmaster's are not allowed in, so the youth feels free to talk.

 

Can you find any statement anywhere in da BSA literature which says or even suggests that the SM or ASM are not allowed in or otherwise forbidden from observing any BOR?

 

Of course, those are all loaded questions, eh?

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[NealOnWheels]

Beavah writes: "Can yeh find anything in da BSA literature which states that review of the Troop's program is a function of the Troop Committee at all?"

 

From the ACP&P: "The review also reveals what kind of an experience the Scout is having in the troop. With that knowledge, the troop leaders can shape the program to meet the needs and interests of the Scouts."

[AlFansome]

Sorry, Beav...you've stepped in it on this one:

 

 

From Board of Review Training at http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/18-625.pdf --

 

"The board of review is a chance for the troop committee or other

adults in the community to get a sense of how the troop is doing and to permit them to offer

support where needed."

 

And from the same document:

 

"The Scoutmaster can introduce the Scout to the board members and may sit with him to hear the

boards decision, but should not be present during the actual board of review."

 

 

You can of course equivocate and parse "forbidden" and "should" and get all lawyerly on us, but the gist is pretty clear. The BOR is a chance for the Committe to evaluate how the troop is functioning and is typically done outside the presence of SMs and ASMs.