What would be your definition of Active?

[Oak Tree]

Ok, say you were in charge of the national committee responsible for coming up with a definition of active. What would your definition be?

 

You can use your own troop's definition if you think it would be suitable for all troops everywhere in the U.S. to use.

[BklynEagle]

This is not a Troop Policy, just my personal thought process -

 

Assuming you go camping fairly often (say, 7 or 8 times a year), a simple majority's worth of attendance on Camping Trips, i.e., 50% + 1 would probably be acceptable (Let's face it, High School kids get Weekend Jobs, which is another element in their personal growth); if you go camping less often, then the attendance factor would have to be larger.

 

Meetings I'd be a bit more strict about, say, 80% cumulative attendance, assuming absences are infrequent.

 

Exceptions, of course, could exist to these rules, but that would have to be looked at on a case by case basis (Divorced parents with joint custody, medical conditions, etc.)

 

I don't pretend that the above is ideal, but we must do better than Active=Registered.(This message has been edited by BklynEagle)

[evmori]

The Scout must be registered.

 

The Scout must participate in Troop meetings and activities (outings).

 

The Scout is responsible for maintaining contact with his unit.

 

If the Scout is absent from his unit for three (3) months without being in contact with the unit leaders, he is declared inactive and his status is changed at his local council office.

 

If the Scout holds a POR and becomes inactive (see above), he relinquishes his POR and time served.

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Kind of like the subjective Scout Spirit, active should be based on the stated expectations of a given SM.

[Eagle92]

"Since becoming ____rank____, attend 75% of your unit functions for a continuous period of _____#____ of months."

 

You can use the wording above or similar wording for S-L-E.

 

Personally would also like to see time requirements for T-2-1, but that is another thread

[Apache Bob]

Per nationals website:

Question: For the Star, Life, and Eagle Scout ranks, how is "Be active in your troop and patrol" defined?

Answer: A Scout is considered to be active in his unit if:

 

He is registered in his unit (registration fees are current).

He has not been dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons.

He is engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (Scoutmaster conference, informs the Scout of upcoming unit activities, through personal contact, and so on).

The unit leaders are responsible for maintaining contact with the Scout on a regular basis. The Scout is not required to attend any certain percentage of activities or outings. However, unit leaders must ensure that he is fulfilling the obligations of his assigned leadership position. If he is not, then they should remove the Scout from that position.

 

 

[artjrk]

Honestly, I don't get bent over the requirement and Active=registered. Considering the active requirment is the same time period as the POR requirement, I just focus on seeing if the scout is active enough to fulfill his duties for the POR. These responsibilities are laid out in the handbooks.

 

I ask myself:

Does he get the job done?

Am I constantly wondering where is he?

Why is someone else doing his job?

 

If in the end, he has fulfilled his POR requirements then he must have been active in the troop.

[BrentAllen]

I've posted it many times on this page, borrowed from Green Bar Bill, who wrote it back in 1937:

 

"The real price of membership in this Troop will be unfailing regular attendance at its meetings and outings, and steady progress in all the things that make a Scout "Prepared." If we put our own time into the activities of this Troop, we shall certainly expect you to do your part with equal faithfulness. At Troop 494, Scouting is a way of life, not just an activity."

 

If I had to write a specific definition, I would use 70% attendance at meetings and campouts for the previous 6 months to earn the next rank. If you are holding a POR, the percentage would be higher, at 83% (5/6).

[Twocubdad]

If I were on the NATIONAL committee, I would NOT try to create a national definition of active, rather I would provide units with guidelines for reasonably defining the requirement for their units.

 

Unit policies should be reasonable and designed to encourage boys to get the most out of the program by participating in it. They should acknowledge that Scouts have other priorities including family, church and school. Policies should be flexible enough for boys to participate in other activites, such as sport and music. I tell my Scouts that if they are going to miss several months of Scouts because of a sports conflict, fine. We'll see you at the end of the season. You should not, however, expect to advance during your time off and you most certainly can't earn credit for a Position of Responsibility if you're not coming to Scouts.

 

Unit policies should allow leaders to consider a boy's individual situation and make reasonable exceptions and not be bound by strict, numerical percentages. I have a Scout with divorced parents. He dad absolutely does not want his son in Scouting. So weekends when he's with his father, he can't go on campouts. I can't hold that against the Scout. Same story with a boy (now aged out) who lived with his elderly grandmother who didn't drive. He was dependant on others to get him back and forth. Of course we would cut him some slack.

 

Policies should not be punitive. Boys should have the ability to make up missed meetings and campouts through attendance as special activities, OA functions, jamboree and Philmont shakedowns, etc. For example, I have an ASPL who missed several meetings earlier in the fall and is a bit short of our expectations for a leadership position. But he's also attended special leadership training, PLC meetings and has met several times with the SPL and the other ASPL for extra planning sessions among the three of them. Does he still met the requirement? Dang right he does!

 

Along those same lines our troop only looks at the most recent six months in determining a Scouts participation. Say a boy didn't attend one single meeting January through June. Starting in July, he attends every meeting. By the end of September, because we would only look at the most recent six months, his average would be back up to 50%

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

To be fair, should we not also look at Scouts who earn a rank and then go MIA? Say you have a real go getter scout, makes First Class in less than a year, then makes Eagle at 14 years and 6 months. At his Eagle Court of Honor reception he is heard to say, Boy am I glad that is over, Scouts is so lame, I only did this because my father wanted me to, leaves the building and is never seen again.

 

He was active at the time he was in scouts, but once he gets Eagle, he leaves and is never seen again, should there not be recourse against doing this?

 

I think a scout who gets Eagle should get it only on a probationary status and must stay active (according to the Troop) for an additional 12 months before he gets it awarded "permanently"!(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[acco40]

Scoutmaster discretion.

 

This question seems to come up on this forum and other forums time and time again. Instead of quoting BSA policy let's look at it from the Scouts point of view. The participation requirement is explained in The Boy Scout Handbook by TO GAIN FULL ADVANTAGE of all Scouting has to offer, you need to be present when things are happening. Take part in meetings, in planning activities, and in the fun of adventures. If youre there, you can do your part to make your patrol and troop a success.

 

During a SM conference, ask the Scout if he feels he has met this requirement. As for myself, the Scoutmaster runs the advancement program and they determine if a Scout is active. It is also understood, with a history of appeals from the national council, that set percentages may not be used to determine active. That said, I take attendance and have at my fingertips during a SM conference the boys attendance records at troop meetings, service projects, camping trips, fundraisers, etc. I use 50% or above as a rule of thumb but not a hard definition of active.

 

An alternative approach would be to "rubber stamp" active and use the "shows scout spirit" requirement to signify if the scout was actively participating in patrol or troop events.

(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Eagle92]

OGE,

I think that's what my unit did to a degree. The until the time you received everything: Eagle certificate, card, and presentation kit, you were called "eagle candidiate." Some folks had their ECOH as soon as it came back from national. I waited about 4 months after the pw came back( 6 months after the EBOR) in order to have a friend and menotr at teh ECOH who was active duty attend. Friend of mine waited a full year for me to attend his ECOH. A very good friend and mentor waited 4 years to have his ECOH. He enlisted in the USAF and didn't have the ECOH until after his enlistment. He spent more time as a "Eagle Candidate" than as a Life scout.

[John-in-KC]

Two comments:

 

1) I like Brent Allens'.

 

2) Be careful of what you ask for ... you just might get it. Several years ago, there was lots of consternation in the field (meaning us volunteers) about what "Active" meant. Well, the consternation got to National, and in 2006-7, National gave us an answer. Now we have to deal with it. Period.

 

Sometimes it's best to let the sleeping dog lie.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[emb021]

"If I were on the NATIONAL committee, I would NOT try to create a national definition of active, rather I would provide units with guidelines for reasonably defining the requirement for their units."

 

This would be my preference.

 

My Fraternity leaves it for each Chapter to define what ITS active requirements are and their pledge requirements (tho they should be in-line with our National Pledging Standards). But chapters can vary WIDELY on the amount of basic parts of active/pledge requirements such as meeting attendence, service hours (we ARE a service fraternity), event attendence, etc.

 

So why can't troops?

 

Heck, it would be easier to allow for troops to do this. You don't like troop X's active requirements? Go to troop Y. Maybe if troop X looses too many prospective members, maybe it's change its requirements (or prehaps the requirements work just fine for its members, thank you very much). This is harder with my Fraternity, because unless you plan on changing schools, you're stuck with the requirements at the chapter at your school...

 

National could simply set down some basic guidelines so some units don't go overboard, require that they be set down in writing and all new members are told what they are. Then if anyone tries to appeal, its simple:

 

1) are their requirements in line with the national guidelines?

2) where the requirements set down in writing?

3) where the parents/scouts told the requirements in advance?

 

If the answer to all these is YES, appeal is denied. End of story.

 

 

 

 

[scoutldr]

Green Bar Bill's words are nice...if you want to see membership dwindle to nothing. It's a different world from 1937. Some are still "all ate up" with Scouting...but we are becoming a rare breed.

 

I think if a scout has a POR, then he needs to attend. The first step to responsibility or leadership is to show up. For other scouts, probably the younger ones, what we do is treat each one individually. If they are regularly advancing, attending some meetings and outings, but are also busy with other things, that's ok with us. We have one scout who thinks he's gonna pitch in the majors one day...so we don't see him much during baseball season. That's ok with me, as it was with my own sons...as long as he's not sitting on his kiester playing video games and wasting his life away. He's got goals and he's working on them...that's what life is about.