Undeserved Life

[ASM59]

I just found out about an incident that took place a several weeks ago. Let me explain:

 

One of our Scouts, Scout1, was ready for his Life BOR and called some of our Committee Members to see if they'd be able to meet him at a Troop meeting for a BOR. They agreed and he had his BOR.

 

One of these Committee Members let her son (Scout2) know that there were going to be Committee Members present and told him to be ready for his Life BOR as well.

 

Here is my first problem: Scout2 made no contacts to assure that he could have a BOR and the Committee Members present for Scout1's BOR stayed to give this other BOR.

 

Now for the really big problem:

Scout2 sat down with the Committee Members for his BOR and presented his book to them. None of the Life requirements were checked off, initialed or signed. The Committee (probably due to lack of training) passed him and signed off on his BOR. His book was presented to the SM to have all the blanks checked off and signed after the BOR was over. I just asked the SM tonight if Scout 2 ever had a SM Conference. The answer was, "No, but what was I supposed to do? The Committee already signed off on the BOR!"

 

I don't think Scout2 deserved his Life rank; at least not that night.

Am I off base for thinking this?

I know there is probably not much that can be done at this point, but this is really disturbing to me.

 

Have any of you ever heard of anything like this happening?

 

ASM59

[sst3rd]

ASM59,

 

Yes, I've heard of other Troops having this problem. But I'll admit, as the current SM at the Troop that I serve, I keep on top of advancement. I know when a Scout is approaching completion of a rank. No, we don't ask the Scouts to set up their own Boards of Review. But we don't spoon feed BOR's either. The Scout has to make the move, but it usually happens as the Scout is having his Scoutmaster's Conference.

 

Which leaves me with the following questions:

 

1) Can we assume that the Scoutmaster who said that he didn't have the Scoutmaster's Conference with this Scout, actually sign off that requirement? If not, and even with the Board's signatures, the rank is not completed. The Scoutmaster is charged with making sure the book is signed off before he has the Scoutmasters Conference, as this feeds into the notion that the Board also has to be sure all requirements are signed off.

 

2) You're correct, the Board is supposed to "review" the book for signatures for the requirements, and make sure everything is complete BEFORE they execute the Board.

 

So, you see. There are several checks and balances in the rank advancement process. Your Committee is not following common sense procedures.

 

 

Your Scoutmaster needs to "pick it up a notch." He's not following the "program."

 

Again. You have my permission to change Troops. You can fix all of these problems. And I think you being overwhelmed. Your son deserves better. "Just Do It."

 

 

sst3rd

[FScouter]

It seems to me that the boy should not be arranging for his own board of review. That's a bit like bypassing the Scoutmaster. If I was on the committee, I'd tell the boy, "Great, have your Scoutmaster call me and we'll make the arrangements." There needs to be some communication with the SM.

 

The boy is told in his Handbook that "... your Scoutmaster will arrange a board of review for you." Sounds good to me.

[Venividi]

ASM59,

 

The problem with the BOR giving a "social promotion" and ignoring the lack of requirements sign-off is an indication to me that BOR has raised advancement to an Aim, or that they do not want to be seen as the "bad guy" by telling the scout that he is not ready for the BOR or the next rank.

 

If/when what you described happens, a potential approach would be:

SM have conference with the scout for a heart to heart talk on why the scout went to a BOR without signoff by SM on SM-conference, Scout Spirit, etc., with an emphasis on the disappointment, and giving him an opportunity to "make it right" by not accepting the advancement until things are completed properly.

Since that didn't happen, the next thing would be to honor the advancement, but for this to be discussed with the SM, CC and advancement chairman to come up with an agreement and plan on how to prevent this from happening again.

Given what you have posted in other threads, I surmise that many on the committee don't care and/or dont want to know or be bothered, and don't see scouting for what it can be.

My take on the description that you have given of the SM is that he may be in the position only because no one else will take it, has prior experience with lack of support from the committee, and does not have the desire to continue to try and do things by the book, since he figures he wont get committee support anyway.

 

The more I read, the more I am with the others advising you to take your son out looking for another troop. Ask around at round table, or ask your district commissioner for recommendations on troops with great programs.

[evmori]

FScouter is correct. Plus, as someone else posted, if the other requirements aren't completed the rank isn't completed. The BOR made a big mistake & it needs to be corrected.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[ASM59]

Thanks for the info.

 

FScouter, I guess that's something that I've overlooked and/or Troop tradition has blinded me to - Our Troop (from before I was involved) made it the boy's job to contact the CC or other CM's for the purpose of arranging a BOR. Of course this is supposed to be with the SM's approval and is normally discussed at the SM Conference.

 

Venividi and evmori,

 

Unfortunately, the Scout has already been awarded his Life rank at a COH. You are correct with your assumption that the SM is in the position without really wanting to be there, yet will not give it up. What happened here was due to a lack of training of the committee members present. All of the CM's have been spoken to and now understand that what happened was not correct, but too much time has passed and I don't know of a way to go back to correct this problem.

 

Yes, we will most likely be looking for another Troop. I guess I'm trying to tie up all the loose ends that I am aware of with our current Troop before I totally step down from responsibilities.

 

Thanks again for your input and understanding,

 

ASM59

[Crew21_Adv]

ASM59,

 

I expect we all have had similar issues, Where well intentioned adults or leaders jumped the gun and break with procedures.

 

I would think this string topic should have been more appropriately named, Untrained Committee or Untrained BOR rather than Undeserved Life. It appears the problem was with the committee not understanding their job.

 

Specifically responding to your questions....

 

Am I off base for thinking this?

 

I would share in the fustration, but my direction would be aimed at the members of the BOR.

 

Have any of you ever heard of anything like this happening?

 

Well similar, My council and district have well published procedures from Life to Eagle. They've been emailed out and reside on a few webpages in the Council. Still one Troop (SM, COR, and Troop Committee) does it their way, say ooops, and ask for forgiveness time and time again. Will they ever learn??? lol

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[John-in-KC]

I have to agree with Crew 21 Advisor.

 

Where was the advancement coordinator in all this? Above and beyond the handbook, a quick records check would show the young man had not been to a SM conference. Further, a call from the CC, whom I assume chairs BORs (or else the Advancement Coordinator) to the SM saying "is this young man ready for his BOR?" is certainly in order.

 

ACTIVE LISTENING, folks. We have to SEND information to each other about the youth; equally we have to RECEIVE and PROCESS it.

 

Mom should never again be allowed to sit a BOR.

 

As far as the rank goes, the CC can have a discussion with the District Advancement Chair, but from all my experience, adults screwing up by the numbers is NOT a considered reason to withdraw rank.

 

Sounds to me like the SM, CC, and Advancement Coordinator need to go offsite, have a cup of coffee together, map out a united position, and then present it to the ASM's, Committee, and non-Committee adults as a fait accompli.

[scoutingagain]

"All of the CM's have been spoken to and now understand that what happened was not correct, but too much time has passed and I don't know of a way to go back to correct this problem."

 

As far as this particular problem goes, it appears it has been solved. The resolution that needs to be considered is educating the committee on the proper role of a BOR and the appropriate sequence of advancement. It should not be to somehow remove advancement from a scout who did what he thought he was supposed to do as told to him by adults within the unit. This is an adult leadership problem, not a scout advancement problem.

 

As noted before, if you do not have the time to completely change this unit around, you probably are better off looking at other units.

 

SA

 

[ASM59]

Crew21 and John,

 

Just to clear up a couple of points.

 

I do find fault with the Scout. Consider how many times he has gone through this process to get to Star and how many times the SM and ASM's have stressed that they must have everything completed in the book before going into a BOR. He knows what is necessary for a BOR to take place. He did not approach a SM or ASM to let them know he was ready for a SM Conference, nor did he let a SM or ASM know that he intended to ask for a BOR. Does he deserve his Life rank? Ultimately he has met the requirements, and would still be Life rank even if this had been handled correctly. The BOR should have turned him away with instructions to make sure he is ready next time. He could have had another BOR the next week or even two weeks later and still had it in time for the COH. But did he deserve to walk away from that BOR with a completed Life rank that night? I think not.

 

And yes, there is fault to be found on the side of the Committee. First, the CC was not even notified that a BOR was taking place that night. If she had been there, this would not have happened as she is very meticulous and would never have let this slide. Secondly, those who did show up for the BOR did not apparently know what they were doing; like I said, there is a lack of training/understanding.

 

Now, regarding the Advancement Chair, she was one of the Committee Members present at the BOR. Sadly, she too is in need of training. She also really does not have access to advancement records. I know, this is not right, but we track advancements using Troopmaster software and the CC has ruled that only SM and ASM's should have access to this data.

 

ASM59

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

Seems like everyone except the forum is getting blamed for this mistake. But the job descrition of the BOR is to verify the scout completed all the requirements, so that is where the cog failed in the machine.

 

Clearly the scout needs some counseling if he didn't say anything and the adults need training to understand their role and policies of their responsibilities.

 

I'm not sure why having a scout arrange the BOR for himself is like bypassing the SM, he still has to prove he completed all the the requirements, which includes a SM signature. Arranging the BOR doesn't mean it should be out of the scouts hands. In a world where everything is done for our youth, initiating action is a skill that needs to be learned and that still doesn't take away from the SM talking with the AC.

 

Every unit makes mistakes, the better units change to prevent the next mistake.

 

As for the scout, I'm not sure taking back the rank would be a positive move for anyone, but I certainly would counsel him with my disapointment and ask him for suggestions to what he can do about it. If he thinks he is man enough to take advantage of the situation, he certainly his man enough to answer the tough questions.

 

Barry

[Vicki]

OK, I read all the replies and most of what's had to be said has been said.

 

But I'm AC for a troop at present and I don't understand how anyone could do that job without access to advancement records? Huh?

 

I also can't imagine any of the SMs I've been privileged to work with signing off on requirements just because a BOR got signed off. Those blank boxes in a book would bring everything grinding to a complete stop until questions got answered.

 

Vicki

[ASM59]

Vicki,

 

I agree totally with you. I cannot answer your questions as I am equally perplexed.

 

ASM59

[EagleInKY]

The BOR absolutely dropped the ball and need to be trained.

 

The SM needs to get on top of the advancement in his troop and make sure this doesn't happen again. The SM should be the person to give the okay to the BOR. I follow the process as described in the handbook and help arrange it. But the boy has to ask me to.

 

 

As SM, I would sit down and have a SM Conference with the lad. I'd explain to him that he broke the rules. If the missing requirement had been something tangible, like a required MB or time in rank, we'd have no option but to bump him back to Star until he completed it. He would also need to understand that he needs my support to make it over the next challenging hurdle, and he needed to start working "with" me instead of "around" me.

 

I've got an Eagle candidate that pulled a similar trick on getting his project approved. The DAC was willing to pull the plug on his project, but I handled it more like I suggested here.

 

In the end, if this is a boy or family that operates like this routinely, you're going to have some real challenges ahead with his Eagle rank.

[ASM59]

EagleInKY,

 

I totally agree with what you say. The only advancement requirements missing that either did not happen or I am not sure of are:

- The missing SM conference

- Req. 4; While a Star Scout, take part in service projects totaling at least 6 hours of work.

 

I don't know if these would be considered tangible, but at this point, there's nothing that I can do; it's looking like I will not be around to see how this family handles the Eagle rank.

 

ASM59