dkurtenbach

Barry, I never did the the research, but my experience is right in line with your conclusions. Active, interested Webelos den leaders cross most of their Scouts over to Boy Scouts. Burned out Webelos den leaders don't. I'm not trying to suggest that this is another factor that makes it the pack's fault if the transition doesn't go well. Rather, I'm suggesting that this is another reason why the "troop-shopping" model is defective. In what BSA considers an ideal situation, where there is a strong and continuing relationship between troop and pack, the troop would be aware of the Webe

Well, as I said, most of the activities described -- before we started Webelos Workshops -- we took on in an extraordinary effort to build a relationship with that Webelos den and, we hoped, that pack. And that didn't work out. I must say, though, we did have a lot of fun with the catapults and pumpkins.

DLChris71 asked: "Can you quantify how much time and resources your troop spent on Webelos? And also if you spent time and resources that were wasted, what would your troop used those instead if not the opportunity to work with Webelos?" The last time, as I recall, we provided the Webelos den with a night hike event, a catapult-building event, setting up a catapult range at one of their campouts and providing catapults and pumpkins, hosted the den at dinner at the district Camporee, and provided dinner for their entire pack (about 60 people) at their pack overnighter, and helped with a f

We always used the rough estimate that each person's personal gear plus their share of troop/patrol gear took up the same volume as an adult in a car seat. So you do a 'mob hit squad' calculation: in addition to the people in the seats, how many dead bodies could you load into trunks and storage spaces in vehicles? So you could pretty much just look at a vehicle and know what it could carry. A standard compact or midsize sedan -- 4 people (comfortably) and gear for 2, or 3 people and their gear. A 7 seat minivan or SUV -- 7 people and gear for 3, or 5 people and their gear. Full size pic

Unfortunately, in a "troop shopping" environment in an area where there are multiple packs and troops, it isn't cost-effective for a troop to do outreach to just one pack. We were "burned" more than once by Webelos dens that asked us to do campouts, help with advancement, and otherwise invest a lot of time and resources to work with them -- and then went "shopping" and decided to join another troop. What I see more and more is district-wide outreach by troops through special events, advancement workshops, etc. Dan Kurtenbach Fairfax, VA

I remember my District Commissioner some eleven years or so ago emphasizing that "There is no such thing as a 'Feeder Pack'!" But I don't know where this "Webelos Scouts should go troop shopping" notion came from. Maybe a misinterpretation of the Arrow of Light troop visit requirement. Wherever it came from, it is NOT what BSA teaches about the Webelos to Boy Scout transition. Take a look at the transition materials on the National web site, http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/boyscouts/improvedwebelostransition.aspx. The message is clear: "The key factor to improved Webelos tran

Had to laugh about this discussion. I'm generally philosophically opposed to troop trailers because I'm afraid of the slippery slope effect described in previous posts. Now, I've rented U-Haul trailers (cheap, cheap, cheap) a couple of times for troop outings; one was to transport bicycles, and the other was when the campout was a four-hour drive away and we couldn't get enough drivers to haul Scouts and gear that distance. A year or so ago a couple of my ASMs who had been in the troop for a couple of years started making noises about the need for a troop trailer. I told them and the t

The _original_ supplex nylon Switchback pants were an olive drab green (at least when new) as opposed to the somewhat darker green of the current Switchbacks. The main distinction between the two versions is that the original Switchbacks had hemmed zip-off legs of standard lengths with zippers at the ankles, while the current Switchbacks have unhemmed legs and no ankle zippers. Difficult to shorten the legs of the original Switchbacks because of the ankle zipper at the bottom and the leg zipper at the top. You could run a fold around the middle of the leg (above the ankle zipper) to sho

Well, the OA states that one of its purposes is to encourage high personal standards of conduct through _recognition_, that is, membership in Scouting's honor society: " . . . through that recognition cause others to conduct themselves in a way that warrants similar recognition." http://www.oa-bsa.org/misc/basics/ For that to work, Scouts have to know about the Order of the Arrow and perceive it as prestigious and desirable. That means _marketing_. The OA sash is a highly visible, instantly identifiable, and highly distinctive symbol of OA membership. It marks the wearers as

I am a former Cub Scout and Boy Scout Roundtable Commissioner. As expressed in many of the comments here, there is some confusion and a wide array of opinions about what Roundtable is for and what it should contain. For district leaders (District Executive, District Commissioner, District Chair, committee and activity chairs), Roundtable not only allows them to check off boxes for their job requirements, it is the ideal forum for information and announcements. Roundtable IS the ONLY regular meeting of unit representatives. (Ideally, this need would be met by all CORs attending the Di

Interestingly, another one of the four purposes of the OA is to: "Recognize those who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives and through that recognition cause others to conduct themselves in a way that warrants similar recognition." Maybe the folks trying to limit sash wear aren't talking to the folks who want to use "honor society" membership as a means to encourage high personal standards of conduct. Dan Kurtenbach Fairfax, VA

When I was Scoutmaster, I looked for ways both to promote the Order of the Arrow and to give Arrowmen the opportunity to carry out one of the purposes of the OA: "Promote camping, responsible outdoor adventure, and environmental stewardship as essential components of every Scouts experience, in the unit, year-round, and in summer camp." And so every Court of Honor was declared an OA activity for all of the Arrowmen in the troop, as they were to do something at the CoH related to the promotion of camping, responsible outdoor adventure, and environmental stewardship. Thus OA sashes were expec

I would also suggest that Barry's story is a powerful lesson in why preventing burnout or dealing with it early is so important. The deeper the burnout, the longer the vacation or recovery period and the greater distance the individual puts between himself and the activity. The greater the distance, the fewer and smaller the contributions from that individual during that "break." And if the break is lengthy, how does that person with a wealth of skill, knowledge, and experience find his or her way back into the program in a sustainable way? We all know stories about someone (pro foot

Excellent point by Barry on the effects of constant stress as a contributor to burnout. Even at low to moderate levels, even when you're having a lot of fun in the job, it is wear and tear. By the way, Barry, our Commissioners College has regularly offered a course on "Commissioner Burnout." Dan Kurtenbach Fairfax, VA

Burnout is what its name suggests: The fuel is getting used up, and the output of energy is way down. The thing about burnout is that the "fuel" consists of things like personal satisfaction, fun, new experiences, learning, and personal growth. When those personal rewards are no longer coming from the activity (such as when the individual has been at it so long that there is nothing new), or when the rewards begin to diminish but the work required does not, or when outside circumstances prevent or overshadow those personal rewards, no new fuel is being added to the fire. There are alwa

You don't suppose they read this thread . . . ?

Well, at least if my thousand bucks is in the endowment fund, only the interest (a mere pittance) is available to be misused each year. But since I can see that at least some council money is going to program (maintenance and improvements at our camps, campership money for kids in my troop, our helpful and knowledgeable DE's salary (a mere pittance), etc.), I think it is a safe assumption that at least some of the income from the gift given in my name to the endowment fund is going somewhere worthwhile. Kool-Aid? Nah. More like Mountain Dew -- it tickles my innards. Dan Kurtenbach

Before the District Committee meeting last week, I was talking to a relatively new member, who said something along the lines of: "You know, we're legitimately checking off all the boxes and got 'Gold' [Journey to Excellence] last year. If we can do that with all this [colorful metaphor for "problem areas"] going on, what are the non-Gold districts like?" Well, they're kinda like our district was two years ago, and four years ago, and seven years ago, and . . . well, you get the picture. District are just like units, in that the real key for them to work is having good people in the ri

There has to be an administrative interface between units/chartered organizations and the council for things like rechartering, activity registration, summer camp registration, and new member registration. More and more, these functions are being handled online through council or National systems. The last vestige of rechartering via the District Commissioner is turning in a signed paper printout of the recharter roster -- and I can't imagine that that will last long. And there has to be a framework for recruiting and organizing volunteers to carry out functions such as training, fundra

"Hey, Mr. K, what is that knot for?" "That's the James E. West Fellowship knot. That's for donating money to the council endowment fund." "How much money?" "Well, for the James E. West Fellowship, at least a thousand dollars." "Are you crazy, Mr. K? You bought a knot for a thousand dollars? Do you know what you can do with a thousand dollars?" "I'm crazy enough to be hanging out with Scouts like you. Do YOU know what a thousand dollars in the council endowment fund can do?" "What's an endowment fund?" "It's a permanent pool of money that sits there and earns interest, and the

The underlying problem, as I see it, is the flip side of what many folks see as a great strength of Boy Scouting: BSA allows, tolerates, even encourages infinite diversity in how troops and their programs are operated. There is no single vision -- much less a standard -- for what an Eagle Scout should be or should be able to do. Equally at home in Boy Scouting are those who run a highly regimented, advancement-oriented program full of merit badge clinics, and those focused on the acquisition of a high level of outdoor and preparedness skills, with advancement as almost an afterthought

I really don't mean this to sound like another "Scouting was better in the good old days" comment -- you can actually look this up in the 7th edition of the Boy Scout Handbook, which I used when I was a Scout. (I note that this same handbook was spoofed by The History Bluff website ("Making a mess of history"), http://www.thehistorybluff.com/?p=2391.) Anyway, under that handbook, Second Class rank was centered on hiking, while First Class was centered on camping. Excerpt from the table of contents (see http://www.troop97.net/bshb_ed6.htm): Hiking Trail to SECOND CLASS -Second Class Te

Since you've now registered with the lodge, you're probably now on list of Ordeal members eligible for Brotherhood -- and will likely be chased down by your local chapter, because Brotherhood conversions are a "quality" factor. But you can just ask your Unit Commissioner or District Executive to give your contact information to the Chapter Adviser or Associate Adviser and have them get in touch. Dan Kurtenbach Fairfax, VA

OwntheNight wrote: "Now if they could get all the coloring the same for all the uniforms, so we could actually look uniform wearing the different combinations, then supply would be onto something." Back when they were moving to the newer version of the Switchback pants, I bought four more pairs of the original Switchbacks on the ScoutStuff buy one/get one free sale. That made five pairs altogether that I own, and I wear them a lot -- and wash them a lot. They have all faded to different degrees and to different shades, ranging from light gray/green to brown. But they are all still goi

Last summer I offered to counsel the Hiking merit badge for Scouts in my troop. Had an introductory meeting with about six interested Scouts AND their parents to go over the requirements. Lots of enthusiasm, particularly from some of the guys going to Philmont this summer. I loaned out some books describing hiking trails in the area, asked the guys to figure out where they wanted to go and start working on hike plans, per the requirements. And pretty much nothing happened after that. I'm convinced that had _I_ planned the hikes and all that the boys had to do was show up, there'd be h