David CO

25 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

A scout told me not to worry as the "statue of imitations" has expired.

Now back in the day, we challenged other troops to play Buck-Buck...

The statute of limitations may have expired, but a lot of people don't want us to talk about how things were in the old days. This is particularly true if some of those activities or practices would be seen as youth protection violations today. 

I have no advice to offer, but I will say that I am bewildered when I see children dressed inappropriately. I am not just talking about temperature. I would include overly casual dress. I don't understand why these kids are making such a fuss about their clothes.

I was wearing a coat and tie to church by the time I was in 1st grade. We wore rain coats and galoshes to school on rainy days.  No complaints.

Back then, we were always expected to wear hats outdoors. I had a cute little newsboy cap in grade school. Later on, I wore a baseball cap. Not the one-size-fits-all kind. It was one of those fitted caps with a short peak. Again, no complaints.

I don't understand any of this talk about letting kids go out into the cold, half naked, in order to help them develop a sense of personal autonomy. It sounds like a bunch of self-help psycho-babble to me.

If it was scheduled just a few days later, you might be shouting, "May Day! May Day!"

29 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I'm sorry, I am taking things to personally of late..I admit the past 2 weeks have been stressful at work. I was hoping to have a relaxing weekend camping to bleed off the stress.That didn't happen and several things happened that made the stress worse.

Again I apologize.

No need to apologize. You made some very good comments in both of your posts. I agreed with almost everything you said.

I intended my comments to be about arguing and fighting at scout meetings/ OA elections (in general), and not specifically focused on any of the 3 examples discussed in this thread. My mistake. I didn't make this clear enough.

Sure. Call the IH. Call the council. Call the police. Call anyone and everyone you feel you should call... just so long as you walk away from the fight. Do not fight at scout meetings.

7 hours ago, ae6963t said:

I am looking for a good online source for beads and leather lace.  Does anyone have a source that they like for these types of products?

If you have an island to trade, I'm sure there would be some settlers out there who would be willing to accommodate you.

4 hours ago, Peregrinator said:

Those are all the hardest things though - especially the last.

I was upset when BSA first required us to sign up in and help pay for its insurance policy. My CO already had plenty of insurance.

My opinion was that the BSA insurance policy was just another lame excuse for BSA to step in and tell us what to do. It was a power grab by national and the councils against the Chartered Organizations. 

1 hour ago, Chisos said:

Wow.  If I were the Chapter Adviser in either of the situations described by @Eagle94-A1 or @Oldscout448 there'd be a phone call in to discuss the issue with the COR and/or IH.

Yes. When I was an IH, I would have wanted to receive that phone call. I'm sure that I would have already heard something from several of the scouts/parents. If the janitor was there, he would have called me too. 

Depending on the OA advisor's actions at the incident, I may have also had a chat with his IH.

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Since I believe below is addressed to me, I will give my responses. 

I am a little confused by this. Why would you believe I was addressing my comments to you? I gave an up-arrow and a positive reply to your post. 

5 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I full expect the OA advisor to stand up to the SM.

Most likely, the CO doesn't care one iota about the OA or it's elections. It might not even care much about the scout unit. It does care about arguments and fights taking place on it's premises. 

I tend to think first and foremost about the CO. If I gave the scoutmaster the keys and left him in charge of the building/gym/hall, I would expect all visitors to obey him (or leave). No exceptions. 

If other volunteers disagree with my scoutmaster, they have every right to say so (somewhere else), but not in my building. Once they leave the property, they are free to say whatever they want to whomever they want.

3 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

When the scoutmaster is red in the face and screaming in the OA scouts face, demanding that he fudge the vote count so that the scoutmaster's son can be elected,  I am absolutely getting between them. I call that defending a 14 year old  from a 40 year old bully. You can call it condescending  or whatever you want.

Things should never get to that point. If it does, it is a clear indication that the OA advisor messed up. He should have packed up his OA team and left the meeting long before that happened.

We have the same problem in sports. Even though coaches and umpires have been trained to call off a game before letting things get too far out of hand, many people are overly reluctant to do it. They place too much importance on finishing the game. A game isn't worth fighting over.

So, when an argument occurs at a scout meeting, who should walk away? It is certainly not the scoutmaster. The scoutmaster is responsible to the CO to supervise the building and lock up afterwards. The scoutmaster can't just walk away. The CO requires him to stay until everyone else has left.

The OA advisor, on the other hand, has no need to remain in the meeting. He has no obligation to supervise or lock up. He is usually not even a member of the CO. He and his team are free to leave any time they want to.

The only reason an OA team and an OA advisor would stay at the meeting, in the situation you describe, if foolish pride. They just don't want to walk away. They want to stay and win the argument. They want to argue and fight rather than walk away.

It is more than condescending, it is prideful and arrogant. 

22 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

The one in front looks just like one of my Webelos Scouts actually. I think it's the begging expression on his face.

Please sir, I want some...s'more.

1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

Besides, if we can't trust a scout to treat such information with respect, then who can we trust?

Was that a joke? 

1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

That’s right, those other planets don’t send their best. 😇

Those extra-planetary visitors really aren't so bad. It's the ones from alternate universes that give me the most trouble, as they tend to become scout executives.

3 hours ago, scoutmom86 said:

SO...In conversation with the Scout Master about attendance to an overnighter scheduled for this Saturday, I was asked not to leave him alone--for this function and any other functions. Not that I intended to, but I felt like that was a little out of line and extremely pointless since he will be taking both my and his 2 year old daughters home for the night.

He has a son who will be scout age next year, so you mean to tell me he can't attend functions with his son without supervision?

You have the right to invite or exclude anyone you want from your home. Likewise, others have the right to invite or exclude you. Under the circumstances, I think the scoutmaster is being very tolerant by allowing him to attend with supervision. The scoutmaster doesn't have to allow him to attend at all. 

My CO would not regard someone you are dating as being a family member. He is a guest. I would expect a guest to remain with the person who invited him, regardless of his personal history.

Of course, next year, he would be considered a family member of his son. 

21 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

then it is time for the OA election team to calmly leave like I did.

Absolutely right. Just calmly leave the meeting.

5 hours ago, silent-warrior said:

 If that is not condescending, then what is? 

An OA advisor thinking he has the right to confront a scoutmaster at his own meeting.

49 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

If you want to send that suggestion to National, I’m sure they will give it due consideration.

Nope. I doubt they're Heinlein fans.

6 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

I actually prefer "As a citizen of the world."  I don't expect that to be a very popular view here.  But the "outdoors" does not begin or end at a national boundary.

Why stop there? How about Citizen of the Galaxy? 

46 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Kids are going to generally gravitate towards spending time with those people who they feel at ease and comfortable with.  17 year olds live in a very different world than 11 year olds.  High schoolers live in a different world than middle schoolers.  Sure, they can and do spend time together - but it's different than "hanging out" with friends.

That's true. 

But I have seen younger scouts and older scouts become fast friends because of them sharing a common interest or hobby, particularly if that activity is something that only a few members of the unit might fully appreciate. 

People of very different worlds (ages, backgrounds, intelligence, and maturity) can sometimes find a special niche where they can interact and enjoy each others company as friends and equals.

Scouting encourages boys to develop interests and hobbies, and share them with friends. That's why we have so many different merit badges.

2 hours ago, fred johnson said:

What do you think?

I think it is rude to walk out on a merit badge counselor. 

A scout should put some though and effort into selecting a merit badge counselor. He should not only take into account the MBC's expertise and experience, he should also consider whether or not the MBC is someone he would be interested in getting to know (adult association). If a scout is too lazy or too disinterested to take this selection seriously, then he deserves to pay the price by sitting through a few boring sessions. 

3 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Yet we do that in Scouts.

I think this may change with the inclusion of girls.

43 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I’ve actually never seen a school in my area where junior high and high school are in the same building.  I guess it varies by region.  I personally am not a fan of Jr High kids hanging around high school students.

It happens sometimes in rural communities. It is usually more of an issue of economics. The community has to make a choice between losing their high school and consolidating with a neighboring district or bringing the JH into the HS building.

Personally, I think it is odd that this generation of parents is so keen on age-separating and compartmentalizing their kids. Forget about adult association. They don't even want their kids associating with older boys.

21 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Other side of what?

I can think of several possible answers to that question, but I think he is referring to the other side of the political spectrum.