David CO

2 hours ago, Bobbys_mommy said:

 

He was recently dual registered in a 2nd pack that is more geared towards special needs. Upon finding out, his cub master at his original pack started telling us this was a problem and it was not allowed. I knew this not to be true but he gave us a hard time about if for 2 months. 

 

I don't know if the cub master was talking about BSA rules or unit policy when he said that dual registration is not allowed. While the original pack cannot stop you from joining another unit, it can drop your son from membership in their unit.

I also don't know what you mean when you say he gave you a hard time. 

Most of the time, the councils don't have any valid reason for closing a camp. The execs just want to cash in on the properties to pay their own salaries. I can't see any valid reason for closing Camp Sunnen.

I'm not saying that there is never a valid reason. One camp closed because the state built a highway along side the property, and the noise from the traffic made it unusable as a campground. That is a valid reason.

Some of these old camps survived the Great Depression. It's hard to believe that they couldn't still make a go of it today.

It looks like the YMCA has a right of first refusal to buy the property.

8 minutes ago, qwazse said:

 

I had no idea BALOO insisted on a wholesale confiscation of a cub's card. No merciful clips. No warnings. No temporary suspensions. Just cruel zero tolerance.

OH THE HUMANITY

 

Yikes! 

1 hour ago, ItsBrian said:

Probably cheaper for the government to just give the money.

No, not at all.

My town has a man-made lake that has to be emptied and dredged out about every 15 years or so. Emptying the lake is a simple and inexpensive process. Doing the dredging work and making repairs to the bank are the expensive parts of the project.

Just like other properties, man-made lakes require maintenance. If a camp owns a man-made lake, they should be budgeting for maintenance. They shouldn't be neglecting their property and sticking the tax payers with the bill.

1 minute ago, Gwaihir said:

This.  If there is a immediate public need, the gov should use tax dollars to fund whatever repairs/mitigation are needed.  Otherwise, cut taxes and let the citizens have more of their earned capital to fund whatever private orgs they wish. 

If there is an immediate danger to the public, the government should safely drain the man-made lake and then allow the camp to refill it only after they have met all of the applicable safety codes.

3 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

If scouters of good conscience can't agree on a standard that would be "too much" then the best and only objective standard is "not at all."

One could very easily use the same reasoning to reach an opposite conclusion. If scouters of good conscience can't agree on what hazing is, then we shouldn't have any hazing rules at all.

3 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

If scouters of good conscience can't agree on a standard that would be "too much" then the best and only objective standard is "not at all."

In my experience, scouters can't agree on anything. If we required agreement, nothing would get done.

37 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

The cost of the card is a Red Herring. Would you change your position if the card cost $200? If you would, then you have to admit that cutting a corner is still not proper, regardless of the cost.

Let's apply your logic to paper napkins. Would you throw away paper napkins if they cost $200 each? If you wouldn't, then you have to admit that you shouldn't discard a paper napkin, regardless of the cost.

25 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Would you change your position if the card cost $200? 

There wouldn't be any issue if the cards cost $200. We wouldn't be handing them out.

You gave me the impression that your son has his eye on the JASM position. I'm sure you know that an appointment to this position requires the approval of the "adults" in your unit. I think your son is taking his eye off the ball. He should be trying his best to prove to the "adults" that he has the right stuff to be a JASM.

9 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

In the past I have tried to talk to him, and it  is like talking to a brick wall.

...or posting advice on scouter.com.

But since your son is resisting advice, to the point of him contemplating quitting the unit, you should not be talking about brick walls. There is more than one brick wall in this patrol. 

33 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

But when no one else was able or interested in running against the Scout, he jumped in. He had major concerns about the Scout being PL.

I really can't blame the scout for being a little miffed if your son didn't really want the position, but ran only to oppose him. A person might take that personally. 

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Son told me he was extremely ticked off, made some smartaleck comments, refused to shake my son's hand when he offered it, ignored the entire patrol, and  gave my son some negative vibes  the rest of the meeting that made him uncomfortable to the point that he is going to talk to the SM about the situation next week. 

Why?

This is the sort of thing a PL should handle on his own. 

5 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Use the “St. Crispin’s Day Speech” from Shakespeare’s Henry V.  In it King Henry exemplifies manliness in action as he rallies his army against the highly skilled French knights

Always a crowd pleaser...

Sure, if you're Kenneth Branagh.  I'm not sure the rest of us could pull it off.

2 hours ago, FireStone said:

I wouldn't regard the comment section of any news website as a good indicator of, well, pretty much anything, especially not what the general public thinks. 

True. But neither are the opinions on this forum.

16 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

 I'm sure I have a reputation as one of the most liberal people in this forum

Is it a contest?

2 hours ago, Chisos said:

Unfortunately, modern "risk management" seems to have morphed into "risk elimination," which results in program elimination or banning of certain activities, given that for any event risk can't (by definition) be zero.

The article said that the university will continue to offer these activities through their staff supervised outdoor program, so they are not totally banning the outdoor activities. They are requiring these outdoor activities to be organized and supervised by staff.

This sounds similar to BSA banning units from organizing and supervising their own shooting activities. BSA requires that some activities be organized and supervised by the council staff.

So, I would argue that the university is not eliminating the activities. They are treating their college students like cub scouts.

Adults travel in pairs. What did the other adult say about all this?

1 hour ago, bearess said:

Sigh.  Talking more to my son, it seems the issue is he felt CM picked on him all weekend.  Apparently he kept calling him “Mr. Patrol Leader”, which really bothered him.  For example, son forgot to pack a flashlight— which he should have remembered!  So he was asking another boy if he could borrow a flashlight, CM overheard and said “Oh, Mr. Patrol Leader forgot a flashlight.  Well, you won’t borrow mine.”  Now, I’m not defending him forgetting the flashlight— live and learn.  But I can see how, after a weekend of that, you would be frustrated.

What’s challenging here is sorting out what is good advice/helpful from CM vs son’s frustration at feeling picked on/mocked.

Your son is being picked on by an adult. I would drop all of the other issues and focus on that.

55 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

I try not to make that request very often because it strikes me as being at least mildly obnoxious when other people do it

It is a bit more than mildly obnoxious. 

I don't quote BSA, but I often quote the CO's guidebooks. The way our CO is structured, any teacher at our school can discipline any student, regardless of whether or not the student happens to be in that teacher's class. The teachers act as a team. Likewise, any administrator can give a directive to any teacher (or other subordinate), regardless of whether or not the teacher works in that administrator's department. The administrators act as a team.

If a person is an authorized leader, appointed by the CO, in any unit owned by the CO, my CO would expect the scouts to obey him/her. That authority comes from the Chartered Organization. The CO owns the unit(s).

I would not recommend that any parent challenge the authority of the CO, or of any appointed leaders to whom the CO's authority is delegated. But since bearess has told us that the units have different CO's, it is moot point as far as this discussion is concerned.

4 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

He is NOT registered with the troop, and has no authority over the Scouts.

Maybe. Maybe not.

7 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

If he is going to have any "authority" in the troop, he is an ASM.  

Not true.

1 hour ago, bearess said:

My son feels frustrated, like CM’s son always gets special treatment— which maybe he does, but that’s life!  OTOH, it seems absurd for a ten year old to eat/sleep with his dad, rather than his patrol.

This is none of your business. Stay out of it. There might be a good reason.

1 hour ago, bearess said:

So... would you say anything to the SM or ASM?  Was CM out of line? 

Your son is the patrol leader. He should talk to the SPL. The SPL should talk to the SM.

Was the CM out of line? Good question. If the two units are unrelated, then the CM is just a parent of a scout in the troop. He would have no authority to give orders to any boy scouts other than his son. But if the CM and SM share the same Chartered Organization, they might recognize the CM as having some authority in both units. 

You should find out where things stand before you speak up.