David CO

3 hours ago, fred johnson said:

I'd argue football and many other sports should be community based and not school based.  

My community has both. 

I don't think anyone is questioning the right of adult students to organize themselves and participate in an activity. The only issue is whether or not the organization/activity will be a school sanctioned club.

Personally, I don't like paying taxes to support other people's recreation.

3 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

Let's use a bit of hyperbole.

This whole thread has been hyperbole. Why stop now?

19 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

A scout is trustworthy is the goal. 

Yep. It has gone from a directive (A scout's honor is to be trusted) to a statement (A scout is trustworthy). Now that it is just a goal, it might be time to change it again to reflect our current beliefs (A scout should be trustworthy).

Maybe we should find some other word than trustworthy, like honest or truthful, since nobody is considered to be worthy of trust anymore.

16 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

But football is still ok, right?  

Right. Football isn't a student-led activity. 

I'm sure the university has a lot of potentially dangerous activities and classes, but they are supervised by professional coaches and teachers.

1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

when dealing with showers and water, someone could get seriously hurt

I can agree with that. We have rules for dealing with wet surfaces like pool decks and shower rooms. As a coach and athletic director, I have done my fair share of pool and locker room supervision. I would have never allowed someone to be carried over a wet surface like that, regardless of consent.

I just don't think this has anything at all to do with corner clipping. 

On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 9:40 PM, fred johnson said:

 

• Scouts sharing a tent should not be more then two years apart unless they are siblings.  We as a troop have always tried to do this.  We viewed it as another imbalance of power situation.  I don't think this affects my troop, but I'm wondering how troops that do mixed age patrols will succeed with this.  Often you have scouts missing from the patrol.  I don't think it would be unusual in a mixed age patrol to have scouts camping where there is no one within two years of age.  It seems the only good conclusion would be that those scouts have their own individual tent.   So this is do-able and a good change.

 

I am not opposed to this. I just think it is perhaps time for us to drop A Scout is Trustworthy. If we don't believe it, we shouldn't say it.

1 hour ago, blw2 said:

 

Anyway, so he forgot..... what to do...rip that patch off his shirt till he relearns the knot? 

 

That would be great! Do if with a drum role and all the ceremony. Make a big joke about it. Very funny. 

51 minutes ago, blw2 said:

 

That would be silly, right?

 

Right. That's the whole idea. It's supposed to be silly.

When scout units clip the corners or sing for lost items, they are being silly. They are turning an otherwise tense disciplinary/learning moment into a fun and silly moment. It is intended to diffuse anxiety, not create it.

Unfortunately, some people have no sense of humor. They take themselves too seriously. They just don't get fun and silly. They want too make a Supreme Court case out of everything. That sort of person would not do well in my unit. We like fun and silly. I would suggest that those people look elsewhere for their scouting.

3 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

 

I fail to see why corporal punishment of card is deemed an effective means of education. 

 

Corporal punishment of a card? 

I once saw an egregious example of corporal punishment of a rope. They gave it a real lashing. 

59 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

When the lawyer is a member of the church that sponsors you and does a lot of pro-bono work for that church, you say "Sorry sir, it won't happen again".

We don't make unit policy that way.

This sort of stuff is nothing new. There have always been pushy people who try to throw their weight around. It not only happen is scouting, it happens in sports programs too. In fact, it happens a lot more often in sports programs.

A scout unit needs to have a IH and COR who aren't pushovers for that sort of thing.

1 hour ago, CalicoPenn said:

Telling a Scout he can't have something back until he sings for it, the Scout saying go ahead and keep it, and the Dad (who is also a lawyer) coming to the next meeting reading the SM the riot act for stealing his son's gear.  Yeah - that really happened - our Troop never did the "I'm a little teapot" thing ever again. 

We would have shown him the door and invited him to find another unit. The SM is in charge. Nobody disrespects the SM.

4 hours ago, ParkMan said:

 

To me, this is easy - you cancel the event for all. 

 

No surprise there.

3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Along that thought, maybe units should first check adult leader availability before sending out permission slips to scouts.

...and maybe they should think about adult leader availability before going co-ed.

9 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

My unit has only 1 female who camps "regularly." And by that I mean car camping in fair weather. If it is not car camping, i.e. backpacking or survival camping, she and her son will not attend. And I stress fair weather, hint of rain and she and her son will not attend, even if paid in advance. And she is not reliable as she and her son will arrive late and leave early. Especially if she does not get her way.

Just imagine the leverage she would have over a co-ed unit. Do it her way or nobody gets to go camping.

2 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

And as a father of almost a Lone Cub Scout now

 

Welcome to Lone Scouting.

I was a 3rd generation Lone Scout. My great uncle was one of the founding members of Lone Scouts of America.

If you embrace Lone Scouting, with all of its history and tradition, in the same way that others do with BSA, you can have some real fun with it. Good luck.

2 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

I will assume that that is sarcasm.  But yes, I think Lone Scouting is sub-optimal.  Scouting is a group activity.  Doing it without a group should be a last resort.  I think the BSA agrees with me.

W. D. Boyce, who founded both the Boy Scouts of America and the Lone Scouts of America would have disagreed with you. Boyce did not consider Lone Scouting to be a lesser or sub-optimal form of scouting.

But yes, I do believe the BSA executives would agree with you.

31 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Lone Scouting?  Not optimal, but better than nothing, at least at the beginning.

Many thanks for your high praise of Lone Scouting.

I saw a similar situation once. In this case, a small public school was closed and the students were consolidated into a larger public school. The units wanted to continue and maintain some connection to the former school.

Their solution was to form an alumni association. The charter was transferred from the school district to the xyz school alumni association, thereby keeping the old school's name on the charter and preserving a large part of the units' legacy.

1 hour ago, ScoutingforAnswers said:

I know Elks, VFW, and KofC already charter other packs.

  

The Knights aren't chartering any new units.

9 hours ago, scoutldr said:

 The Charter Agreement is a contract between the PTO and the BSA local Council. 

How can a PTO enter into a contract if it is not a legal entity?

3 hours ago, ScoutingforAnswers said:

The PTO is now questioning how they can act as CO when they have no ability to provide equipment insurance or oversight of troop finances.  Any help or advice anyone has pertaining to this would be greatly appreciated.

The IH of this unit might be contemplating the possibility that he/she is personally liable.

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 2:16 PM, ScoutTN said:

She posted the same thing on at least four other sites recently. An odd topic for someone pot-stirring.

That may be true. But is it any less odd that you would have spotted it on so many obscure, diverse, and unrelated web sites?

I can't help but wonder if the two of you are actually acting together to tag-team us in some sort of inside joke.

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:48 AM, RememberSchiff said:

 

... is rather odd...

 

...as opposed to the rest of us sane, rational, and perfectly normal scouter.com members.

Some day, you must explain to me how I managed to sneak past your screening process. I thought using the sanitarium as my address might be a dead giveaway.

1 hour ago, mashmaster said:

Some of the boys have asked me why can't I stay as scoutmaster.  Adults and Scouters have told me that they think I have done a great job, I feel pretty useless right now.

Stop feeling useless.  

This is nothing in comparison to the changes you are going to experience later on in life. Empty nest. Retirement. Slowing down.