dan

I have been watching this thread and as far as I can tell trying to relate scouting to soldiers, politicians, etc. does not relate to scouting. A good leader will never follow. A good leader will assign the patrol member a job, lets say fire builder, if the leader follows this guy around to watch him build a fire, he is not a good leader. And the fire builder is not following he is leading himself. The patrol member is not following an order he is carrying out his assignment. I do not look on it as the patrol member is following a order to build a fire, he is doing the job that was assigned to him. The only time I can think that it would be okay to follow in Scouts would be on a hike. I think follower has 2 meanings. First would be the bad leader SM would tell the patrol member to build a fire and than the SM would go get the tinder, firewood, matches and the scout would be right behind him mimicking his every move. Second would be the person that follows the BSA AIMS or follows the teachings of the Bible, etc.. I do not see how the words leader and follower go together unless bad is in front of leader.

OutdoorThinker You said "we dont have to HEAR him sing" Are you saying that OGE cannot carry a tune in a bucket? Come on give us the lowdown on OGEs' singing!

3 years as a Boy Scout 2.5 years as a Explorer Scout 4 years as a Den Leader currently 4 years as a ASM

My post made it sound like if you where not from CFL I did not know anything about them and if you are I did. That is not what I meant!

Camp Freeland Leslie? TFC? If not I have never heard of sheepherder stoves.

If you love scouting GO FOR IT! Not sure what you mean by Try for it? All you need to do is to have your applaction and money in before the course fills up. Go in with an open mind and be ready to have some fun, meet some good people, and learn a bunch. You maybe a Beaver, Bob White, Eagle, , Owl, Bear, Buffalo or Antelope. But if you are real lucky you will get to be a FOX. http://www.geocities.com/foxpatrolc12/

I see nothing wrong with the Wiwelbelos saying both nor do I see anything wrong with the Boy Scouts saying the Webeeloys part.

Naw I did not really do much research on you, copied your location pasted it into yahoo maps. Just so I could give you a few suggestions. Also looked at your town using www.terraserver.com just to see the lay of the land, looks mostly like farm land, is it? Can you get the 2 ASM in college to go with you? Take the high adventure when they are on spring break or on summer break.

Ok hang on to your hats, I have a feeling that this one could get bumpy. I noticed that SPLT15 said that they could not afford to do a High Adventure. I say why? You could do a high adventure for 5 days for about 50 bucks per scout. How you ask? A High Adventure does not have to be halfway across the country, it could be in your county. Now I do not know much about Louisiana, never been there, but I see you are not far from the mighty Mississippi and I see there is a big lake by your town. Take a walk around the lake for a week, Hike by the Mississippi, you are not to far from the gulf, is there a state forest nearby? I am assuming that you have tents, backpacks, mess kits, and bag. All you need besides that for a high adventure is the food and possibly a stove, you can supply the food from a grocery store, does not have to be dehydrated backpacking food. Grocery Stores have dehydrated potatoes, hash browns, tuna in a bag, mac and cheese, rice, summer sausage, etc. Which would make better meals than the dehydrated stuff anyway. (Le Voyager could probably do a lot better menu than I can this way, and tell you how to make some food to take, along with many others on this forum) Purchase a cheap digital camera, you can get them for about 15 bucks from Wal-Mart or Walgreens, I have one myself. It will take 20 very good pictures outside in the sun, take pictures of your outings send them into the newspaper with a little write up about where you went camping over the weekend. Do some service project take pictures send them into the newspaper with a little write up. Now when you take that high adventure take that little camera along and take pictures and I think you know what to do with them! Other kids and adults will see that you are an active troop and I hope it will draw in new recruits. Now for the hard part! How many ASM's and MC's do you have? Are they willing to go camping and on service projects with you? Please do not just say no, ASK THEM, than let me know what they say. Some adults just needs a little asking or pushing.

48 11/12 When I am out camping with the troop, I do not feel like I am almost a half a century!

I say let them bring them! And than follow the program and see if they have time or want to use them! Idle hands are .... Have them hike into the campsite carrying their gear. Have a schedule to follow at the campout. Do not schedule free time, free time should be scheduled as a patrol meeting, to prepare songs and or skits for the campfire. Have games, skills, etc. If a scout is not participating have his PL talk to him. And if that does not work, SPL, than SM. Can you see where the Scout Oath would apply to a patrol member not helping or working with his patrol? In the vehicle we usually listen to some music, but whatever patrol I am riding with, we can usually talk for about 1 hour about the troop, them, the campout! Sing some songs!

Evmori If the BSA put in the rule that uniforms are required, it could hurt people who could not afford them. Which I why I think the uniform is not required. General statement not aimed at Evmori! Gee, maybe someday will learn how to communicate on this forum! I see it as out jobs as leaders to get the scouts in uniforms using positive methods, and have fun doing it! How to get your unit in uniforms? Show the PLC the SM handbook where it says all leaders should set a good example and wear the complete and correct unform, than ask them who the leaders are in the troop. This could be a very powerful training tool. I would love to see every unit in full uniform, but with units making up rules as they go and not understanding the program and rules, that is not going to happen.

Thick as a Brick? With some words changed?

I really think that this rule was put in for the less forunate scouts, there are scouts out there that cannot afford or have access to a uniform. Which is why I think the BSA keeps the wording vauge. Ed Would you deny a Scout eagle because of this? Now remember not all leaders may have the resources to obtain used uniforms. (This message has been edited by dan)

10 k MORE That means if they sold 100k last year they increased the sales by 1%.

If someone was to give me one of them campaign hats, I would pin the side brim up so it looked like a comboy hat! and than when things where not going well I could turn 90 degrees and be the goofy guy! And I would still be in uniform!

bumb for Fish

I like the first one the bestest! Some of it is a joke and some is someone just retyping the handbook or other BSA policies. Troop Bylaws New Membership New boys must attend two troop meetings prior to joining the troop. A parent or guardian must attend at least one meeting before the boy may join. Troop Meetings A troop meeting will be held each Monday at 7:00PM at the Lindbergh Schweitzer Elementary School west campus auditorium during the school year. During the summer, meetings will be held every Monday at 6:30PM at Lindbergh Park. If unexpected circumstances require a change or cancellation of a troop meeting, the scouts will be notified. Uniform Scouts shall be required to wear a Scout uniform at all scout meetings and functions, unless informed otherwise by the Scoutmaster. Neckerchiefs will be worn at all special functions. Dues Dues will be paid by all scouts. The amount and manner in which they are to be paid will be set by the Troop Leaders Council and Troop Committee. Dues will be based on 12 months/52 weeks per year. No scout will participate in camping and recreational activities, or receive any awards if he is one month or more behind in his dues. Patrol Meetings Patrol meetings should be held each week, with the scheduling of these meetings to be the best compromise among the members of the patrol. It is recommended that these meetings be scheduled on a regular basis; the Patrol Leader shall make the final decision as to the meeting time and place. Patrol Scribe will submit a report of activities to the Senior Patrol Leader. Discipline Discipline at troop meetings is primarily the responsibility of the Senior Patrol Leader, his staff and the Patrol Leaders. Discipline at patrol meetings is primarily the responsibility of the Patrol Leader and his Assistant. Disciplinary decisions by these leaders require approval by the Scoutmaster or adult leader in charge. Meeting Attendance A scout shall not miss more than one troop meeting and one patrol meeting in any one month. If he does miss more meetings, he may be excluded from the next campout. An exception may be made if the absence was due to serious illness or other circumstances beyond the control of the scout. This exception can only be made by positive action from the Troop Leaders Council. Board of Review A troop Board of Review shall be convened at the last troop meeting of each month. Special Boards of Review may be convened should the need arise. This board shall review Scouts for advancement in rank AND lack of advancement or participation in the troop or patrol. For reviewing advancements, a minimum of three adult leaders is required; however, members of a boys immediate family cannot be on his Board of Review. The scout will be required to appear in full Scout uniform, with his Boy Scout Handbook, and will be expected to display a general working knowledge of each of those activities completed as requirements toward the advancement presently sought as well as past advancement awards earned. Elections Elections of Patrol Leaders and Senior Patrol Leader shall be held each March and September or at the discretion of the Scoutmaster. The Patrol Leader shall be elected by the Patrol and the Senior Patrol Leader by the entire troop. The Senior Patrol Leader election will be held two weeks prior to the Patrol Leader elections. A Patrol Leader election may be requested by the patrol at any time. The Patrol Leaders may request a Senior Patrol Leader election at any time. Assistant Leaders The Assistant Senior Patrol Leader(s) shall be appointed by the Senior Patrol Leader and approved by the Scoutmaster. The Assistant Patrol Leader shall be appointed by the Patrol Leader and approved by the Scoutmaster. Other Troop Officers All troop offices (Scribe, Quartermaster, Librarian, etc.) shall be filled by appointment of the Senior Patrol Leader and approved by the Scoutmaster. The Scoutmaster shall appoint den Chiefs. Troop Leaders Council Meeting A Troop Leaders Council meeting should be held on a prearranged day of each month. The Senior Patrol Leader or Scoutmaster may call special meetings if a need arises. Too frequent absences from these meetings by a Patrol Leader may result in the Troop Leaders Council recommending that the patrol have the opportunity to hold a new Patrol Leader election. Campout Participation All campouts and troop activities will be subject to approval by the Troop committee, and should have a ratio of one adult per eight scouts, with a minimum of two adult leaders present for any activity, no exception. A scouts desire or intent to participate in a campout shall be made known at the troop meeting prior to the activity. Failure to do so may result in exclusion of the Scout from the activity. Menus shall also be submitted at the troop meeting prior to the activity. Any fees required must be paid at the troop meeting prior to the activity. Each Scout will present a permission slip signed by one of his parents or guardian prior to the start of the activity. Communication, A Scouts Responsibility Each scout is responsible for keeping himself and his parents (or guardian) informed of what is going on in the troop and his patrol. If the scout misses a troop or patrol meeting, it is his responsibility to find out what went on at these meetings. A scout is also responsible to notify his Patrol Leader or another troop leader when he is unable to attend a meeting. Court of Honor A Court of Honor shall be held every March, June, September and December to recognize the scouts who have advanced and for presenting awards (recognition of outings, skill awards, Merit Badges, etc.). Parents of the scouts are encouraged to attend these Courts of Honor. An advancement of rank requires parent/guardian attendance. Honor Patrol A system shall be established and maintained to grade patrols in various areas as designated by the Troop Leaders Council and Scoutmaster. Upon recommendation of the Scoutmaster and approval by the Troop Committee, funds may be used from the general Troop treasury once every three months to award recognition to the Honor Patrol in an appropriate manner. Service Projects It is an obligation of every Scout to participate in troop and patrol service projects. A scout need not participate in all projects, but should make every effort to do his share (preferably participating most of the time). Troop Equipment When troop or patrol equipment is used by a patrol or scout, the patrol or scout assumes responsibility for the return of such equipment in good, clean condition. If a piece of equipment is clearly lost or damaged by an individual scout or patrol, he/they will be held personally responsible for the repair or replacement of the item. Troop Treasury An account shall be maintained at the Scout Service Center trading post. All items charged to the account require a receipt to be turned in to the Troop Treasurer for entry into the troop financial records. Committee The Troop Committee shall meet during the second week of each month, unless otherwise designated. Any recommendation/complaint must be presented to the committee at a committee meeting. A quorum the number of committee members necessary to conduct troop business shall consist of at least three troop committee members from different families. A majority vote of the committee members present the number not to be less than a quorum shall be required to amend, suspend, add to or in any way alter these bylaws. Campership Funds and Fund-raisers Various methods of raising funds to be used by scouts for scout related activities such as equipment purchases or scout-sponsored functions are provided by the troop. Some of the fund raising activities might be: candy sales, scout fair ticket sales, popcorn sales, program sales or newspaper and can recycling. Participation in these events is encouraged and benefits the scout as well as the troop. As to each specific fund-raiser, the troop committee will decide in advance of the activity the proration of income between scout and troop general fund. Use of Funds Campership funds, at the discretion of the troop committee may be used for: Scouting related activities such as patrol, troop, district or council events or other certain special events. Uniforms and scouting related equipment purchases such as tents, sleeping bags, backpacks, hiking boots, etc. Receipts are required for reimbursement. Campership funds may be used to pay scouting dues, but the transfer must be requested at least a day prior to and Court of Honor to restore eligibility for awards. Transfers and Forfeitures When transferring to another troop, a scout may request that his troop campership fund be transferred to the new troop to be used for scouting activities. If a scout decides to leave scouting, the remaining funds in his campership will be forfeited to the troop general fund. These by-laws were revised January 1999. Enforcement of these by-laws is the responsibility of all members of Boy Scout Troop 1: Scouts, Leaders and Parents.

Eagledad You have me totally baffled! You wrote that great article on how the First Year Scouts need help coping with boy lead. Yet this post you totally blow it off?! Are you saying that some troops needs NSP and some do not? How could that be? I truly respect what you have to say, but I wonder what your motatvation was for that last post. You and Bob White say almost the same thing most of the time, but you 2 seem to rub each other the wrong way. I sit and read what you and BW say and think they are saying the same thing in a different way. A open mind is a learning mind.

I would not add any, but I would remove Obedient. You must obey.

NO It is a Eagle Requirement, while a Life Scout. Does not even give the SM the chance to give him a leadership project unlike Life and Star. So even if the SM said it would count it should not. Its spelled out pretty clear. Boy Scout Handbook page 446. Who is the "other" side?

scouter659 Sounds like we may be involved with the same troop. The one thing that really had me wondering is the troop correct or is the Mom, was this comment. For example, if she happens to see some random moment she doesn't like an older boy making some off color comment to a younger Scout, she will go ahead and just speak to the Scout. Where is the leadership when this is happening, if she was not to say anything would someone else? It does not sound like they would? I think any parent has the right to stop a scout from saying off color comments, if done is a scout like manner. But the SM should be informed by this parent what happened. I look as my job is to train new leaders and parents about the AIMs and boy run, this is a huge job, but this is where I get myself into trouble, the training that is given, I believe, does not enforce the BSA program enough. It has been watered down to the lowest common denominator. Now this may be the council I am in, I am not sure, but I did not get the information that I needed from Scoutmaster Fundamentals. We have this same Mom in the troop, her and I got into it over the no boy can sleep in a tent by themselves. I said that is just one of our silly unwritten troop rules, she just about blew a gasket, telling me how unsafe it was, I informed here that there are 2 boys 4 feet away on either side of his tent. At this time she just walked away. Some people are not trainable! And she just finished the Wood Badge course this fall. Now is the troop trying to train this mom? Are you still out there? I got the feeling from your last post that you have checked out of this forum. Have you already gotten the disease that many posters on this board have? The disease of: I know what I am doing, and no one can give me hints and ideas to help, after all I am highly trained? The closed minded disease! An open mind is a good thing. dan

Be Yourself

packsaddle thanks I am so far! I have had the same pair of BSA pants for 5 years. They still look good. You have a good day also. Dan Do you disagree with my previous statement?

ahhh andrewcanoe so much to learn as you will learn as you become a senior forum member. some people are not happy unless they are complaining! or cutting other people down or throwing mean and nasty insults around. But apparently the forum admin does not care what is said on this board.