Crew21_Adv

Jeff,

Greetings again!

WOW..

I've never seen a DE, with just a uniform shirt. I've met alot of DE's, and been to quiet a few different types of meetings with DE's and professionals.

I've never seen a DE wearing only half the uniform. Either full uniform or semiformal/casual dress. Even jeans and a council polo shirt. Especially when the meeting attendees know what the attire is. (It doesn't hurt my feelings if they are in jeans and a t-shirt even, but I personally don't like half uniformed)

Usually the District Commissioner and District Chairman are also semiformal when they have consulted with the DE before District meetings.

Maybe once in a while in a rush I can understand half a uniform. But you said your DE never wears a complete uniform. Ouch!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Gonzo,

Greetings!

Within my Troop it is only the adult leaders and SPL that do not yell "SIGNS UP". I'll explain.

During our regular meetings, we have skills instructions, patrol corners, interpatrol activity challenge, usually finishing with administrative notes, Scoutmaster's Minute and closing.

During the patrol corners and some skills instruction(when it's round robin style) we call it organized chaos. The volume grows louder as the patrols talk, learn or plan. (about 5 minutes of work, out of a 15 minute patrol corner, but hey, they are leading)

During the meeting, about half of the parents/committee members previously sat in the back of the hall. The parents in the back of the hall also enjoyed social chat. So we are now placing tables and chairs in the building foyer, so the parents can socialize out there and not cause more noise congestion.

Regarding Signs Up and I said SIGNS UP.....

After Patrol Corners, during Skills instruction or administrative notes, we need to bring the chaos back into control. When the silent signal is given for assembly, the SPL and the Adult Leaders have to remain silent as well, without yelling "Signs Up". Leaders have walked into the patrol formation and lightly tapped some boys on the shoulder and pointed towards the SPL. But the leaders usually remain silent while they are doing this.

Within our Troop, our normal practice is we don't encourage it, we don't discourage it, but we do allow the Scouts to say "SIGNS UP". However, we do not allow "SHUT UP" or similar comments, which crosses the line.

It is almost humorous, watching a new first time parent, trying to do good, but walking around yelling signs up. (The leaders usually roll their eyes as if; Oh good grief, that just defeated the purpose)

Granted it sometimes takes 2,3 or 4 minutes (which does seem like an eternity). But the organized chaos, usually results with an organized (semi silent) Troop, listening to the SPL.

Is there a trick to get a large Troop or Pack to quiet down in less than 60 seconds? Please let me know!! However, my Troop does average the eternity between 61-120 seconds.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Sue,

Greetings!

I can feel your pain.

Years ago, at a neighborhood Pack meeting and their annual Blue and Gold banquet, I was visiting to conduct the annual FOS presentation. The chaos started long before I got to the stage, but the Cubbies' older sisters started practicing gymnastics during their younger brothers Blue and Gold Banquet, which got their younger brothers running, which led to uncontrollable chaos. Whew!

And now having three nearly grown children of my own (one in college and two in high school), I've attended many Scout functions, school functions, sports banquets, PTA meetings, etc. Your description of events sounds more like a parental problem than just these Girl Scouts or their leaders.

These forums are for BSA, GSUSA, Scouts of Canada and a few other Scouting associations. But the largest population, would probably be BSA. I don't think there is any publications in the BSA (past or present) that will address proper procedures for discipline. There may be policies in the individual unit bylaws, but not any Scouting policy from National BSA.

Now regarding the BSA Guide to Safe Scouting. Scouts may be removed from that units membership, if the committee deems a Scout to be harmful to other Scouts.

Some unit bylaws will allow Scouts being escorted directly home, from a meeting or event, by their parents when discipline becomes a problem. (for whatever reasons that break the units tolerance and threshold).

Can you imagine getting a call, while your teenager is 200 miles away at camp, and being told to come retrieve your teenager right now? I've seen it happen a few times, and I've nearly had to make the call. Each time was justifiable.

In Boy Scouts, occasions like this would only be found in unit policies, so be cautious while searching for a national discipline policy in the GS/USA.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Jeffrey,

Greetings!

EagleinKY and Scoutldr gave you some great straight answers. It sounds like your DE is doing the basic job, whether it is dramatic or subtle, only time will tell.

So like Eagle said, I will follow up with some line by line resources out there. I've commonly heard "four functions of a district", but read below for some items I quoted.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

This is directly from Scouting.org.

What do professionals in Scouting do every day? The responsibilities are as broad as the tasks are varied and no two days are the same for a typical Scouting district executive. No matter where they work, in the city, the suburbs or the countryside, one thing is for certainthis is anything but a "cubicle" job. The job of the professional Scouter is to inspire, recruit, train, and support the BSA's adult volunteer's. In addition, they work with community leaders to rally public support for Scouting.

I have heard that DE's should professional guide the District Committee in concentrating on the four functions of a district. Which they learn in their Professional Development Courses. The definitions of these four functions differ on a few webpages. Here is just one quote, These four functions are from a council's webpage.

Membership Function

The membership function strives for growth through the organization of new Scouting units, and growth through new members joining existing units.

Finance Function

The finance function sees that the district provides its share of funds to the total council operating budget.

Program Function

The program function concentrates on helping Scouting units with: Camp promotion, Training, Activities and civic service, Advancement and recognition

Unit Service Function

The unit service function provides direct coaching and consultation by district volunteers for unit adults to help ensure the success of every Scouting unit

This is from another Council's webpage.

The professional Scouter in an entry-level position is assigned to a district or service area within a local council. The job responsibilities are broad and varied. Duties include promoting, supervising, and working in the district or service area through volunteers. Different aspects of the professional Scouter's job include:

Sales. The professional Scouter is responsible, through volunteers, for extending Scouting to religious, civic, fraternal, educational, or other community-based organizations.

Service. Major emphasis is placed on service. The professional staff ensures that all Scouting units are served through volunteer commissioners, regular roundtable meetings, training events, and activities.

Finance. The professional Scouter has responsibility for securing adequate financial support for Scouting in the assigned area. Working with volunteers, professionals recruit leadership for the Friends of Scouting and finance campaign efforts to meet the financial needs of the council.

Administration. The professional Scouter administers the Scouting program in the assigned district or service area.

Public Relations. Professional Scouters must recognize the importance of good working relationships with other professionals and with volunteers. Scouting depends on community support and acceptance. Professional leaders must have good communication skills and be able to tell Scouting's story to the public.

GNX,

Greetings!

My bottom line.. Yes.

I have sung with my critter and staffers in a few councils. It seems each Council sings it just a little bit differently.

Some councils have replaced the word "If" and replaced it with the word "While" (to make it sound more positive). "...work my ticket, while I can..."

Some councils don't run to the front and sing enthusiastically, but rather the Wood Badge'rs stroll to the front and sing it soft and emotionally (boy, did I look different when I ran to the front) I guess we can call that diversity.

If only one person from a patrol is represented, some councils don't let that single person sing a solo and everyone will join in for that verse. Other councils will make that single critter sing a solo.

The only disqualifier I can think of. On rare occasion, with weekend courses. Sometimes a learner does not return to the second session (work, illness, forgot, a multitude of reasons). But if they have not completed the six course days of wood badge, the may not yet be a permanent part of that patrol, and disqualify themselves.

If you have attended both weekends (or an entire week of wood badge). Yes, you are part of that patrol and should sing with your patrol each time. Regardless of participants (learners) neckerchief, completed beads, shirt and tie, dress suit, or jeans and a t-shirt.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Lisa and Fellow Venturers,

Greetings!

I guess like Emb021 and I recommended. National BSA and the Venturing Division should really consider releasing Venturing Program Helps for all five of the specialties. (Most of the info is already out there it seems to me, just not structured in a meeting plan.)

But bottom line, my Troop's PLC can appreciate a written plan from the program features, and use what they desire from it. But my older Venturing Crew Officers have a difficult time during our Crew Officers Meeting, writing a meeting plan (even if there are some vague program examples in the Venturing Leaders Manual). A Venturing Program Features/Program Helps would help stir their creativity and planning.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Lisa,

Greetings!

Without diving to far into the semantics, here is my opinion about how Venturing differs from traditional Scouting.

My crew has been to the pistol range, horse back trail riding, and COPES course. We've also been to a "Who Dunnit" theater and many other excursions.

Annually to reward them for their work and have fun. We go to a Gokarting. Go-karting is listed as a restricted item for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, but does not make mention of the restriction at the Crew level. The parents and youth are briefed on safety and wear the appropriate clothing and helmets. Next Summer we are planning White Water Rafting.

While our Venturers are enthusiastic. The advisors have to review what our limits are with the Age Appropriate Guidelines and the Guide to Safe Scouting. We find the small risk of go-carting and trail riding to fall within safe parameters of the G2SS; while we constantly explain that paint ball courses and participating in the youth rodeo are just too far outside of the safety zone.

Just like in the G2SS, prohibiting technical tree climbing appears to be a recent entry. Some Troops and Crews have probably attempted it, until BSA risk assessment decided it was too dangerous (for now). I recently watched a video of canyoning at a recreational office.(Imagine your local water park, except these are actually mountains and canyons) A relatively new sport with outdoor enthusiast, I don't see it prohibited by the G2SS (yet). I don't even plan on consulting my fellow advisors, lest showing it to the crew, because I expect the adults would cringe thinking of potential risk of injuries (even with the participants wearing safety gear).

Now, If I can also add an opinion regarding Venturing Program Helps. Emb021, made a great reference to a 90's edition of Explorer Program Helps. Comparing the Explorer Program Helps and our current Venturing Leaders Manual.

The Venturing Leaders Manual has many items similar to Troop Program Features or the annual Cub Scout Program Helps. Games, Ethical Controversies, Outdoor Plans, etc.

But it is divided into Chapters, rather than weekly and monthly themes. The Venturing Leaders Manual seems to have recommended themes to be used by Venturing Crew Officers. During its next revision, if Venturing Leaders Manual could be divided into monthly themes like its companion literature Troop Program Features.

I am not recommending adding or taking away from the manual, just restructuring. I truly believe a weekly/monthly style revision would enhance a Crews' creativity and program planning.

Thanks for allowing me to rank.. Cheers everyone!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

queenj02,

Greetings!

Here are a few amateur links below, I tried to find drawing or picture but no luck.

I usually bring a no.10 coffee can, with a nail driven hole in the bottom side. It is plugged with a golf tee. I tie this to a nearby tree, close to the cooking station.

Also tied to the tree branch. a bar of soap, sitting in the bottom of ladies nylon stocking.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

http://www.pack55.org/forms/Pack55-handbook.pdf

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/17798140/print/true/pging/true/page/2.cfm

http://www.naturesgarden.ca/sanitation.htm

Aidan,

Greetings!

I certainly concur with my fellow Venturers regarding the definition of a Venturing Crew. (with nothing more really to add).

I would like to address your second and third questions.

Do you use the resources avaialbe from a Venture(ing) Crew nearby?

How do you think a Venture(ing) Crew fits into the Scouting program?

Advancement is not really a method of Venturing, but Recognition is of the advancement program is. I interpret that to mean we encourage the crew officers to plan programs and events that will allow advancement in one of the five themed areas. However, some Venturers just enjoy the association and not motivated to advance any further. A year round program containing some elements of the recognition or advancement program is essential to a Crews success.

In Boy Scouting, a Scout needs to learn, tested, reviewed, then recognized in the Advancement program.

Taking a look at most of their advancement, part of their accomplishing the Venturing Skills is to demonstrate to others, as table top displays, speaking to a group or teaching. Many times this demonstration could be considered the same level as tested for a Boy Scout. When the Venturer is demonstrating the Skill. It can be aimed at a Den, Pack, Patrol, Troop, Summer Camp or Camporee, in addition to some of their High School classes just to list a few places.

As for now, most of the Venturers I serve prefer to instruct only to the Crew. Few will visit the Troops, none visit the Packs, however, these Venturers have assisted during Cub Day Camp.

Bottom Line. I believe some of these demonstrations the Venturers need to perform in the Venturing Handbook, should be to the benefit of neighboring Troops and Packs, teaching advancement skills at age appropriate levels.

So I believe all the Venturing Crews should be a resource to Troops and Packs.

And I believe it tightly fits into the Scouting Program, with its own style and diversity from the other programs.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Arrowmen,

A few additional comments to clarify my request..

We thought of making costumes, which isn't out of the question, yet. But purchasing would certainly be faster to expedite our Chapter.

I was hesitant to call them "costumes", but that is how the are referred as in the OA Guide for Officer and Advisors handbook. So in a rush, I stuck with that initial choice of words.

Finally.. Yes I would agree.. It would be equally fascinating to model Ceremonial Costumes after local tribes. And I have seen this in OA chapters as far away as the Puerto Rico Council and the Aloha Council, stretching the local island native legends slightly into native american OA ceremonies. Both fortunately and unfortunate, I am again in the Transatlantic Council. A very unique Scouting way.

To explain why I requested the Delaware Indians. We can camp and hike places that some scouts only dream about. We do have American Indian visits from military and US businesses during the October Native American month and rarely a very modest and diverse Pow Wow, but ultimately we have no local American Indian tribes nearby. So, without a local tribe to model, we would have to create our best model probably off of the Delaware Indians or the Lenni Lenapi Tribe.

All your advice is greatly appreciated. And, please continue to post if you know of good authentic native american manufacturers or their webpages. Thanks again!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

CNY,

Greetings!

If I may offer my own thoughts. (IMHO)

Was the CM smart? No

Was this hazing? Yes, I would concur.

Was this physical abuse? Yes

Was this emotional abuse? Id still say Yes, very low on the scale but meeting criteria.

Was this sexual abuse? No. From what I read, the CM did not further touch the 14 y/o CIT or was trying to obtain power over the youth.

In Scouting, there are no perfect leaders. Just leaders that may be near perfect, place the boys and their advancement as high goals. These leaders use the program to develop future adults with fitness, character and values. But still, none of them are perfect. The Committees just choose the best adult to serve at the Cubmaster, Scoutmaster or Advisor.

So CNYScouter asked, What should happen to this new CM?

(If I can borrowing from Eammons story telling style, thanks E..) A small and insignificant story which really struck me. It contains the benefits of honesty, accepting the blame and serving the punishment.

Not many years ago, but fairly recently. After the OJ Simpson trials a new cable network began. CourtTV. The only show on Court TV in the humble beginning, real traffic court. (How Exciting!)

One morning before I departed to work, I surfed over to the new CourtTV, a live traffic court show in California. Defendant after defendant were claiming innocence. It was a hilarious. A was in tear, laughing so hard at this defendants arguing with the Judge. The more they argued their innocence, the judge would impose 50 dollar, 100 dollar, 200 dollar fines.

Finally, a middle aged, mid income businessman approached the bench, his traffic citation was for Jay-walking in the downtown business district. The traffic court judge asked him how he pleaded. He said guilty. The judge had to ask him again. He said guilty again. He told the judge, he illegally crossed the major downtown road, the metropolitan cop saw him and issued a citation. The Jaw Jay-walking businessman admitted, he had no alibi, he was guilty as charged and ready to accept the financial punishment (fine) and move on.

The traffic court judge was stunned! The first guilty plea all day! The judge commended him for his honesty (first that day), gave the Jay-walking defendant a warning, cleared his traffic record and dismissed him without any fines.

Now, there is a large difference between a jay-walking businessman and a Cubmaster giving a teenaged youth a wedgie.

What should happen to this new CM?

Let me ask you (or your WB patrol buddy) Was this current CM the best adult for the job back in June? (Probably if the Committee asked him to be Cubmaster) Did this CM have a good record until this event? (I hope so)

In my opinion.. I would recommend the Committee reprimand him. Make sure he understand the Guide to Safe Scouting and renews his Youth Protection Guidelines training. And get back to a great Scouting year!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Baden and Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

This page should be a good resource for all our Scouters. I cannot find instructions for a Ballista, but there is a good image on this site.

http://www.pioneeringprojects.org/index.htm

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters and Arrowmen,

Greetings!

Simple question (hopefully), but for my education, could we discuss websites, stores and manufacturers of Ceremonial Costumes? Where can I look and purchase costumes for my Chapter and Troop?

Either for their Delaware Indians or any of the Native American Tribes. Thanks in advance for your input.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Brian,

Greetings!

During this and a few other strings you have been offended at what fellow Scouters have said.

"Seems like you are following me around to every thread, attacking me. The above is below the belt. It seems to me you are a terrible example of the values scouting teaches. Dissagree, yes, but you did not need to personally attack me. You are out of line."

"Looks like some folks fear they are loosing the battle so they are attacking me personally, which should never ever happen on a scouting board. SHAME ON THEM!"

But equally here are some insulting comments from you.

"Ding ding ding, we have a winner!"

"Ding Ding Ding, we have another winner."

"It seems to me you are a terrible example of the values scouting teaches."

You have even quoted me during a string ....

Brian stated "If some of you want to bury your head in the sand and keep scouting "the way YOU like it" you will watch it dry up around you. Someone above wrote "While I'm not excited over the Bee Keeping Merit Badge, I am happy that there is now Cinematography and Computers Merit Badges. I enjoy that the Climbing Merit Badge now has climbing towers and artificial climbing walls. " Scouting is NOT about what we leaders like."

You seemed to have missed the my comments about an attractive program (i.e. Snorkeling, Scuba, Freestyle Bicycling, Caving, Whitewater Canoeing, Snowboarding, Surfing, Tubing, Rollerblades, and Motorized Off Road Bikes). It appears while you were stating that I have my head in the sand. Ouch! Was that an insult directed at me? You missed the attraction of a merit badge program with climbing walls and climbing towers. Also, new merit badges being included each year.

If you view the Council Commissioners Top Ten List for 2005,

it was stated a thought called "Roots and Wings", keeping our roots in some tradition while encouraging wings for our adult leadership to keep Scouting relevant and look at a changing world. A year before you went to Wood Badge and started this thread, Scouting has been working to keep relevant.

Brian said "Scouting should not be about what we like as adult leaders. The kids should always come first. I am not getting much push back from kids, just adults!" Then it seems you contradicted what you said in this post "The danger, of course, is to not forget that scouting is first about the boys, second about what we like."

While there are many more Scouts are online these days and many may even have their own personal computer or laptop in their room, I believe the majority of registered users on this blog are adult Scouters. I don't believe many youth have registered to use this page. There have been just a few older Scouts (SPL's and JASM's) over the recent years.

Brian, If you have registered to use this Scouter.com weblog to interview Scouting youth, you are probably conducting your surveys in the wrong website. I say this just due to the low population of youth Scouts registering to use this blog. If you desire to survey youth, which is a good idea. This forum is probably not the best method to do it. I would recommend beginning with a reputable research and survey firm.

Such as, the Louis Harris and Associates, have done just a few focus groups on Scouts (and non Scouts) to find what they thought about Scoutings Values.

You stated that Scouts should be conducting focus groups. Rick Cronk was quoted in USA Today interview. "We're spending a lot of research money and time talking to kids of different backgrounds and their parents to figure out what gets those kids excited ... and what parents want. The people in the program already enjoy it. It's a matter of introducing ourselves to these constituents."

While I haven't conducted surveys, I do run into Scouts and families (and former Scouts and their families) at the high school sports games, cruising the mall stores or in the park. Of the few youth that have departed our Troop and Crew, they seemed to state they did enjoyed the fun program and friendship, while the parents removed them from the Troop and Crew because of homework or grades. Then again.. maybe they are telling me what I want to hear, who really knows.

I do think that most every Scouter will agree with you, that the (Scouts) program should come first. I don't know of anyone that would disagree. The program should allow young adults to build character, physical fitness and citizenship.

I would disagree with you about a comment; In my, Crew21 Adv, opinion; Scouting is about what all Scouts like, the youth, the adults, the parents and the Charterting Organizations. We would not have any Scouting if it were not for the Chartering Organizations and their ideals. I seriously don't believe we would have any membership if the program were not attractive and relevant to the parents of our youth.

Just in our own numbers in December of 2005 Scouting had reported 2.9 million youth and 1.1 million adults. I see that at just over a quarter percent adult leadership or one Scouter per three Scouting youth. My opinion again, I would expect Scouting is partially what the adult Scouters like and our Chartering Organizations like (as well as what the youth we serve like). As you said, "to not forget that scouting is first about the boys, second about what we like."

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

I believe that Scouting is moving towards some of these new sports, hobbies and professions that interest our youth for today.

Just like many of our schools, school districts, the various states Dept of Education and the Federal Dept of Education.

They (and we) should not run head into a curriculum or sport without research the credentials and safety records. But only after observing the safety procedures of emerging sports and recreational events, and conducting risk assessments; then should proceed with creating newly established Belt Loops, Activity Pins, Merit Badges and Varisty Pins.

If you take a look within the Varsity Program Planning handbooks and the Venturing Handbook and Venturing Quest Award and also the G2SS Age Appropriate Activities, there are some sports that were considered high risk to injury years ago, but with safety procedures and equipment we can now recognize our youth with these accomplishments (i.e. Snorkeling, Scuba, Freestyle Bicycling, Caving, Whitewater Canoeing, Snowboarding, Surfing, Tubing, Rollerblades, and Motorized Off Road Bikes)

While I'm not excited over the Bee Keeping Merit Badge, I am happy that there is now Cinematography and Computers Merit Badges. I enjoy that the Climbing Merit Badge now has climbing towers and artificial climbing walls.

Talk about the new Composite Materials Merit Badge, my son can shape his own surf board, and get a Composite Material MB along the way!! I call that relevant!

The entire speech that Rick Cronk gave was pretty good.. "Scouting must continue to offer an attractive program...But we should be more stalwart than those proverbial reeds blowing in the wind ..."

Should we offer change.. yes, when it does benefit all our Scouts. We have constantly been changing for nearly 100 years already. Should we get rid of tradition. Heck no.. With respect to leave no trace, I just can imagine sitting around a flashlight drinking hot chocolate. (Besides, the Mrs likes the smell of wood smoke, or so she tells me)

Meanwhile, I am content to wait for the BSA legal, risk assessment, professional teachers, recreational specialist and the handbook and merit badge committees to review their programs and offer an attractive program that is relevant to kids today. I trust their judgement that the a good blend of new challenging programs and traditional programs will excite all our Scouts.

Finally, I believe at Walt Disney World Amusement Parks Scout Troops (BSA, GSUSA, and schools) can preregister for the Youth Education Series (teachers and merit badge counselors). While learning many of the Science and Agribusiness merit badges, they can learn and have fun in an attractive program. I can't wait to book our Troop there!!

While there is not quiet a RollerCoaster Merit Badge yet, Scouts can earn a Space Exploration Merit Badge and learn about physics while riding the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad in Disney World. How attractive is that?

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

SMT376,

Greetings!

I am typing this quickly as I am on my way to my Venturing Crew meeting in 10 minutes. But....

I highly support the Trails End Popcorn... It's delicious!! And the Girl Scouts better bring a hand truck when they visit my front door with the cookies!

First, I do not believe it is blackmail till after the quid pro quo has occurred.

Second.. Neither the UC nor the DC have a signature on the Unit Money Earning Application Form 34427A.

And to help your PLC, Normally during recharter units are issued a Budget Planning Worksheet. If you haven't received that form, there is a Year of Scouting Budget Planner on the Trails End Webpage, which is downloadable in Excel.

I personally do believe you should sell popcorn, but my feelings and thoughts have no effect on your PLC or Troop Committee.. I have no power to deny a Money Earning Project Application, As a District volunteer, my signature block is no where on that application. Similarly, regarding what your UC stated, It may be a strong arm tactic.. But it has no value.

Bottom Line... Don't worry. Submit your Money Earning Project to the Council Service Office and speak with the DE and SE about their volunteer UC tactics.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

EL,

Greetings!

I have been Scouting for a few years, since I was a youth till now, my middle child and oldest son graduating from High School this year. Additionally, I have moved across the U.S. and resided in a few Councils and Districts during these years. I have been involved with just a few units that have had to seek other Chartering Organizations, and have had fellow Scouting friends who have had to do the same.

I've seen it based on disagreements, inadequate facilities, and finally legal. Our legal disagreement was over a residential charter. A residential members community center had it in their documentation that over 75 percent of any organizations/clubs had to reside within that residential community. We had best Troop for a few miles, and because of that, we had less than 50 percent of our youth were from the community neighborhood. Bottom line, we were told to move by recharter time.

It is unfortunate when a Unit Committee and Chartering Organization fail to have similar ideals and goals, and when their communications finally break down. But it has happened more than once and your situation is not the first time it has happened.

If communications and agreements have deterioate so far, the CO have usually been more than welcoming to release the Charter (to include equipment and monies)

To answer your question.. Yes. The CO owns the Pack and all materials. Without my library infront of me right now, I do believe the Chartering Organization owns the charter, unit equipment, and finances. The CO trust the committee to handle the equipment and finances wisely, and to the benefit of the youth.

My recommendation would be to inform your Unit Commissioner and District Executive. Both the UC and DE would prefer to apply a band aid to the issue. This may or may not work, so I'd caution the committee to be absolutely sure of what they desire. Then the next step would be a request (not informing but request) It would be to the Chartering Org, requesting them to release the Charter, equipment and finances.

I could only imagine a CO would decline if the equipment was mutual such as a CO purchased vehicle, trailer or storage shed. However a CO would have little use for Scout flags and pine wood derby tracks.

Hope this helps..

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Greetings Everyone!

Lisa'bob asked, What do you have to do get into your national contingent in order to attend a world jambo?

The Four Regions are tasked with managing the BSA contingents. Applications can be found on the national webpage, and also thru most every council office. The first couple of payment fees have already passed, but the should accept until filled.

So ask your council and region for an application to start the process, fill it out and submit a payment quickly.

Or can anybody go?

Just an FYI..

There should also be a day visitor passes available, (at a cost of about 15-20 British Pounds per day). Should be pre-registered for these Day Visits though.

Day visitors will probably not be allowed into all of the participant venues and demonstrations.

Rumors are that some family style leased campsites in the vicinity of Hylands Park, are leasing sites to BSA Councils and other country Scout assocations. So that they may conduct a London historic tour and attend a one or two day, Day Visits to the WSJ. This is not an inexpensive way to attend, just an alternative, and may just save a few dollars, euros or pounds.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

Jeffrey H,

Greetings!

My experience...

I am fortunate enough to have taken the old WB course in the 80's, and staffed the old WB course in the 90's. Then Staff the WB for the 21st Century a few more times these recent years.

I would say that the differences are simply cosmetic. They appear as "new and improved" games on the outside, but inside WB has the "tradition and tested" focus and agenda.

The BSA works hard with public and professional educators to keep up with the most current leadership styles. Essentially these are the same top dollar leadership seminars that you will get in New York City all the way to Los Angeles.

The leadership styles and literature have changed with the times. However, in the new WB a participant still learns leadership skills. The participant still reinforces them in a game or task at the den/patrol/team size, and then at the larger Pack/Troop/Crew size during the course.

The ticket process also has not really changed, you still write out Scouting goals and plans to improve yourself and your Pack, Troop, Team or Crew.

Scouters will attend Wood Badge for different reasons. But the bottom line is, there should be some skills that the participant can take home to improve their Scout unit; and allow our boys to grow into mature men with character, citizenship and good fitness.

Is the new course better or worse? I won't answer that. I will say it reflects current trends.

As you asked, Without saying the new course is better (or worse), I will offer a good sell.

You as a Scouter will improve, your Troop will improve and your son(s) will benifit from it. Take the course.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Mom-o

Greetings!

The story is true and became more public in 1988. It was taken from a speech that John McCain gave before the 1988 Republican National Convention.

Also recently on Veterans Day 2003 on the Senate floor.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?r108:./temp/~r108LJZago

Mike Christian

http://www.cfa-inc.org/flag_stories/stories4.htm

A couple of more books written by and about Vietnam POWs were I'm No Hero by Charles Plumb and Beyond Survival by Gerald Coffee.

http://www.charlieplumb.com/

http://www.captaincoffee.com/

Regarding your Camporee, Most Fall Camporees occur in October November time frame. It would be great if the youth could learn the significance of Veteran's Day. It is a federal holiday, and usually a work and school holiday.

The sigificance of 9-11 is recently known of course, but the Freedom Walk is on its second year. The large Freedom Walk is moving along the National Mall to the Pentagon, but it is being modeled in many other cities.

However, just after 9-11 is POW/MIA Day, which is Friday the 15th of September. There should be memorial ceremonies held at many military bases, and city memorials.

Finally, we should always remember the many sacrifices of both the fallen and living Veterans. A few years ago, our District Scout Camping Chair took from a Cub Scout theme of the month "Hometown Heroes". All of the competition events were named after a local hero. (i.e. Sgt Smith Fire Bucket Brigade, Cpt Jones Cracker-Whistle Relay) Each competition site had a picture of a local hero, and their personal award citation and short bio read by the event station staffer.

In mid day, the local metropolitan SWAT team and polices dogs demonstrated for the scouts.

Finally our evening campfire was a blast with all the usual skits and songs, it was dedicated to a Medal of Honor Recipient within the state. To calm the Scouts at the end of the evening, the campfire "Camp Commissioners Minute" was closed with a personal story from a visiting MOH recipient in the local area.

Good luck with the Camporee!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Lisa,

I almost forgot..

Some Troop Committees may be open to a Scoutership.

A Scoutership (similar to a Scholarship) is usually used to assist good and deserving scouts, that may not financially attend Summer Camp.

However, each year, I recommend to my units committees to authorize a Scoutership (either full or partial) to attend training. The committees may decide if they will provide a Scoutership and eligibility requirements.

This also may push a potential Wood Badger over the edge to commitment, especially if they know the Committee is supporting and encouraging them to attend.

Maybe in a course of 30-48 learners, you will have 1-2 that had a full ride "Scoutership".

Crew21_Adv

Lisa,

Greetings!

Using a Fishing merit badge analogy....

Really all you can do is bait them, and see if they bite.

Not everyone will attend Wood Badge. They should, but in reality they don't. If they did, in each council there would be about four - five courses a year. Still, there are quiet a few Scouters mildly interested. Only mildly though.

Sometimes there is a small desire to attend Wood Badge, but not at the expense of vacation and personal finances. (Weeklong courses and additional uniforms and camping equipment) As you testify about your experiences, you would need increase their desire to make a commitment and pay that first deposit.

Many times they have heard Wood Badge is a leadership and camping course. Many times our Troop (and Pack) leadership have attended Management Seminars in their profession. Equally many have been camping a few years, with their youngest Scout about to turn 18.

So, Here is what I "bait" during Roundtables.....

The most fun you'll ever have with your Scout uniform on!

If you want to have a successful troop, send the leaders to Wood Badge, send the Patrol Leaders to NYLT, send the SPL to NYLT and KODIAK!

Ever heard of

Steven Covey, Franklin Covey

"Seven Habits..."

Kenneth Blanchard.

"Who Moved my Cheese"

The Movie October Sky (anagram for Rocket Boys)

The true story of Homer Hickam

"Sometimes one dream is enough to light up the whole sky."

If you run a double feature on movie night, everyone loves a Disney flick! The true story of Coach Boone and Coach Yoast and their team working together to achieve one goal.

Also clips from another great Disney movie. Mr Holland's Opus.

Finally, You receive a PATCH at the course end. (Who wouldn't sign up for that alone?)

Hope that helps!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

Kelly,

WOW! Sticky situation eh?

I guess the saying "Nobody's perfect" fits.

He has been the mainstay of the Troop. But he has also made moral errors in his own home.

In short, alot of time we talk about a Scoutmasters Pay. That's when a Scout comes up and says thank you.

It happened to me after moving across country. By surprise, I was reacquainted with an Eagle Scout from 10 years earlier. This 26 year old man, kept calling Mr Crew21_Adv and said thanks for being there.

The Plaque is a great idea, and I have a few collecting dust at home myself. No one cares to listen to my old stories though, unless I drag them into my office.

But those Thank You's; they will last forever.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

ASM59,

I expect we all have had similar issues, Where well intentioned adults or leaders jumped the gun and break with procedures.

I would think this string topic should have been more appropriately named, Untrained Committee or Untrained BOR rather than Undeserved Life. It appears the problem was with the committee not understanding their job.

Specifically responding to your questions....

Am I off base for thinking this?

I would share in the fustration, but my direction would be aimed at the members of the BOR.

Have any of you ever heard of anything like this happening?

Well similar, My council and district have well published procedures from Life to Eagle. They've been emailed out and reside on a few webpages in the Council. Still one Troop (SM, COR, and Troop Committee) does it their way, say ooops, and ask for forgiveness time and time again. Will they ever learn??? lol

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

FK,

I would imagine many Scout Leaders, SM's and ASM's would enjoy having Gung Ho parents.

There should be many needed areas were to serve. First I'd ask them to attend Troop Committee Challege or Boy Scout Leader Specific and Outdoor Leadership Skills quickly. At these trainings they should come away learning the difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Adult Leadership is still needed at the Troop level, but should be done thru or via the SPL and PLC.

If they are able to attend Wood Badge with their first year of joining. They should learn where their motivation and skills could be put to best use. After Wood Badge, their goals should align with the Troop's goals. Also, it allows for mentoring to occur with a seasoned adult Scouter.

If indoctrinated correctly, they should do one job or one ASM or Committee position extremely well, and not do all the jobs. I'd say use these new parents, register them and steer them to needed areas within your troop!

Scouting Forever and Venture On

Crew21 Adv