Crew21_Adv

Gogators,

Greetings!

If I may suggest.

If the other Troop leadership adults are concerned about who should discuss the proper uniforming with this Troop Committee member. And also, without pointing her out directly, here is a suggestion.

Baschram645, stated maybe provide her with an adult inspection sheet. An excellent idea!

But if no one wants to be the bad guy, which it already sounds like, why not hold a Troop Uniform Inspection. That is the true purpose for the Inspection sheet. Email the uniforms sheets out to all members. Ask everyone (Youth and Adult) to come dressed appropriately. (This may also correct some of the incorrect patch placements, which some parents quickly sew onto their sons' uniform). Every uniformed person should be present, if committee members don't possess a uniform, a business suit or business dress would suffice.

Personally, it is always a thorn in my side, when the parents of a 16 y/o High School football player Life Scout tries to get "just one more year" out of a khaki uniform they purchase for their first year Webelos with he was a little Cubbie of 9 years old... lol.. But that's a different forum topic string.

Make a big deal out of the inspection night, inviting the Unit Commissioner, District Executive and Chartering Organization.

Maybe an inspection like this would "kill two birds with one stone", allowing the Troop Secretary to come back into proper uniforming, and also confirming the Troop is correctly uniformed as well.

Good Luck!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

Greetings again!

kb6jr asked if anyone had new info, or if not, what our opinion is.

Well no, I don't have any new info on this. So my opinion. I like the new switchbacks, as well as the current uniform slacks. I like the idea of the new relaxed activity shirt (I haven't purchase one yet though), but not to replace the current uniform shirt. Just as an alternative.

As for outdoor activity programs. I have camped feet from my tailgate, camped on the beach, camped on a mountain ridge and I have also hiked a few miles into the wilderness. Sometimes I bathed with a baby wipe before hoping in my Jeep and going to church. On other times, the wife hosed me and the boys down, before letting us into the house. So which uniform to wear and when they are worn. Well it would make sense to me, not to get my uniform shirt muddy, sweaty, smelly, stained. etc.

As for a new DE, and saying what National is "thinking" about. I believe we have all heard about what they are thinking about many times, on a variety of Scouting topics. Sometimes these thoughts makes it into actual guidelines, writing, publications and program material. Many times, they only remains a thought.

Of all things. On occasion, my Venturing Crew likes to play a game called "Cell Phone", I was in tears laughing so hard, when I found out the game "Cell Phone" was the game "Gossip" when I was their age.

My bottom line, the subject may get a little distorted when an original comment is restated too often. Maybe, we should all wait for a new guidance to actually be published.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Prairie, and Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

My thoughts have been said already by Beavah. But if I may echo, my own ideals.

The way I see it. There is nothing you, I nor anyone can do to get boys back into Scouting. It is their choice and their family choice.

Again, the way I see it. Bottom line. The boys come for fun. The adults come to get character, citizenship and education for their own sons. I truly believe Scouting is the best program, which delivers a well rounded program. But there are other programs too numerous to list, that may deliver exactly what a family desires; church youth, youth sports, or just social programs.

A Boy Scout troop can only offer their program. The best that any Troop can do is to provide a program with fun and learning. A Troop with advancements, with campouts, with Scouting skills and inter-patrol games which reinforce those skills. A troop that plans (annual, monthly and meeting) and carries out their plan. If you do have that, then the boys will come for the fun, and the adults will drive their boys to the program, some parents will even join in on the fun.

Now boys (and girls) talk in School, they talk at sports, but sometimes the parents see maybe a few elements of a Scout program at city or town events. At town gatherings, town parades, and annual ceremonies. Beyond "word of mouth", School Night for Scouting or specific recruiting events. Those are probably the best opportunities to demonstrate a local troop has to offer with their program to the adults.

I would prefer to say, you are demonstrating what your troop has to offer. Not getting boys back into Scouting. At least that's what I prefer to say my unit does.

Of course we loose some boys. Who doesn't?? But that is due to other programs their family more desires, not the lack of our program. But in the end, we have a steady growth or maintenance, and lifetime friends.

Honestly, I personally would not try to get boys back into Scouting. If they show genuine interest, I will demonstrate, invite, and talk about program till I'm blue in the face. But if they or their parents have no interest, I don't see how I can change their minds.

Prairie, Good Luck at demonstrating your program to the boys and parents!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

AD,

Greetings!

Gee..this is getting deep.

I never thought I'd be Posting on a topic like this. But Hey, I've had a 30 mile hike and a 50 miler (which was actually 56 miles). Four of the days were in the wilderness with a latrine (or KYBO) at the beginning of the week, and the most beautiful looking latrine at the end of the hike.

Quiet often we refer to the Handbook in this forum, even on this ocassion the LNT was quoted, but we rarely refer to the Fieldbook.

Gern seemed to hit the nail on the head with his comment. Sorta like, would you care to answer nature's call in your front yard?

I don't have the BSA Fieldbook infront of me right now, but this is from the LNT chapter in the BSA Fieldbook Companion website.

http://www.bsafieldbook.org/fieldbook.jsp?s=LNT&c=07

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/21-117/053c_dispose.html

AD asked, why it is neccessary in some wilderness areas to pack up and carry your human waste with you? It seems like the answer to why, would be based on state and county laws.

"Some areas may require that all feces and toilet paper be packed out. Always check with the land management agency if there is a question"

If I am correct, The BSA only requires a Scout hiker to abide by all state and local laws. It states that in most all of our literature. I have not read where BSA tell us to "pack it out", but only to abide by the lawful ordinance.

Recalling from the Fieldbook, I believe a chapter in the updated handbook even makes a reference to what bears do in the woods. (If someone has their Fieldbook infront of them, could you help me out) So if animals hear nature calling, why can't Scouts?

And then AD asked, What is it about our poop that makes it so much worse than that of the other animals, that it needs to be carried out? Here's the answer.... Human Waste. Proper human waste disposal helps prevent the spread of disease and exposure to others.

So, for those wilderness areas, where there is not a law or ordinance mandating that hikers "pack it out", here is what the BSA Fieldbook says, "Catholes 6 to 8 inches deep in humus and 200 feet from water, trails, and campsites are often the easiest and most practical way to dispose of feces."

Now.. I hope we can bury this topic... lol

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

I'm still wondering if that "charming voice" ever emailed the CR National Camping School schedule. The "within minutes" had turned into "an hour ago" when Robert last posted. lol C'mon Central Region staff.. Chop, chop!!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

FG and Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

You asked. So how do your units handle monthly campout planning and annual program planning? How involved are the adults, really? Is there anyone out there willing to admit that the adults actually run their "boy-led" troop?

My experiences are similar to our fellow posters Scott and SST. Before our annual Troop Program Planning and monthly PLCs, our Troop has obtained all the school calendars, federal and work calendars, and the Council and District calendars.

You asked how involved are the adults. I would say, we are very involved in cooperation with the SPL and PLC. Does my Troop actually run our Troop. Well when the ideas such as tackle football, fire walking, or extreme paintball tag come up from the PLC, the adults will say WOW! That sounds like a blast! But ya know, maybe that is not the best way to satisfy advancement. What do you think, SPL?

A couple of the methods of Scouting are Adult Association and also Leadership Development. The Scoutmaster is usually the prime responsibility in Leadership Development. Ideally, we give the SPL and PLC the tools, and provide them a safety net along the way.

I would personally say it is unfair to conduct a one hour Troop Leadership Training, award the Trained strip and say "have at it".

I've been associated with a potentially promising troop, which the Scoutmaster swore was extremely "Boy Run". The PLC and Scouts were very enthusiastic, and they planned the entire year. (Sometimes their agenda was pure fun, sometimes it was pure high adventure). There was an annual PLC to write the annual plan. But there were no monthly PLCs to plan the monthly activities. With this troop a particular leader would occasionally degrade the PLC for not having any meeting plans, not having any agenda. There was extremely low advancement, and the only merit badges earned were from Summer Camp.

I would say, it was Boy Run, with no Adult Association or Leadership Development. Maybe a 10 percent success rate of completing any plan.

I have also seen what I would call troops which are Boy Run with Adult Association and Leadership Development. I would estimate a 90 percent success rate in completing their annual plans.

Most Troops I have been involved with find a blend of Boy Run, with Adult Association and Leadership Development. Prior to commencing the Annual Planning Conference, all of the local calendars are printed and provided to the SPL/PLC so they can view them simultaneously. After a few minutes of discussion by the PLC. The Scoutmaster (or Assistant Scoutmasters) will ask the SPL for permission to address the PLC. The theme of the months are recommended to the SPL to accept or change. The Troop excursions, hikes, camps, camporees are also recommended to the PLC/SPL. Often saying, Hey! look at this, we can camp here and conduct the 5 mile hike at the same time Look this camporee has a water front activity Gee, Dont our younger Scouts need to plan a menu, purchase grub and cook for their patrol?

The SM and ASMs often ask or state. Consider this? Do you think this is a good idea? or Do you really think that is safe? Are you willing to fund raise for that? Do you think we may satisfy advancement requirements, if we participated in this activity? and finally, do you concur?

The adults are careful to ask the SPL for permission to speak, each time, before addressing the PLC.

For our Monthly plans, our ASMs ask to the Patrol Leaders, May I see your meeting plans? Did you phone or email your patrol and explain the skill presentation? Does your patrol know what they are doing this month? Can we satisfy Advancement or Merit Badge requirements this month by doing this? Do your parents know of the Patrol plans? And finally, is there anything I can do to help with your patrol, or do you have it under control?

Maybe the best analogy you can visualize would be, My fellow Scouters give our SPL, PLC and Scouts a large highway to travel on, with strong guardrails to keep them in the same direction and in their lanes. (Maybe you can say our adult leaders are railroading and herding the PLC. Maybe you can call it the Trail to Eagle; or maybe just the trail to being a better citizen with strong moral values and able to make good decisions.)

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

DD,

Greetings!

You offered a difficult hypothetical situation. WOW! While I have not seen this occur in Scouting, I have seen this same situation occur twice in a two separate community-based organizations. The outcomes were not enjoyable. But I have not seen this in Scouting. These are my views, and I am not speaking on behalf of the BSA.

I would reply by stating.

There are at least six adult positions within a Troop. IH, CR, SM, AS, CC and MC. If you are not invited to be a Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster, you would probably be invited to serve on the committee with the code MC.

All of the Committee Positions, Treasurer, Secretary, Equipment, Transportation, would carry this code of CM.

Individuals who desire to join a Boy Scouts of America unit, require three approvals. The Committee Chair, the Chartering Organization or Executive Head, and the Scout Executive of the respective council; these individuals are trusted to ensure that a potential adult applicant abides by the entire application process and is deemed worthy of acceptance as an adult leader.

It is not correct that an adult pays 10 dollars, and by default becomes an adult leader. There is no "rubber stamp" approval.

Payment is only one qualifying factor. Unlike some other community-based organizations whom I have been affiliated with, who accepts anyone with ten dollars in their hand. I would not want anyone who walks into our meeting carrying 10 dollars, to automatically become a member, without any interview or screening process.

There are additional requirements such as abiding by the purpose of the Boy Scouts of America, abiding by the Excerpt of Religious Declaration. The Leadership Requirements further state "The applicant must possess the moral, educational, and emotional qualities that the Boy Scouts of America deems necessary to afford positive leadership to youth. The applicant must also be the correct age, and subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle, and abide by the Scout Oath or Promise, and the Scout Law."

On occasion, there are some youth, whom desire to be in Scouting. Via various means such as the Scoutreach programs they can join. While on some occasions their parents do not possess the moral, educational, and emotional qualities to be an adult leaders.

I hope your Committee Chair, Chartering Organization and Scout Executive can select the best qualified leaders for your unit.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

FB and Fellow Arrowmen,

LOL.

I would rather give it the analogy of "staying afloat" or "treading water" rather than "going down".

While not a premier Chapter program, and no crowds of Arrowmen beating down the door to attend our Chapter meetings. There is a meeting, there is an agenda, there is a mission and goal. They are just not "Earth Shattering" lol

I'd encourage your Chapter Arrowmen not to give up the ship. Just to fall back on the very, very basic OA tasks.

If you're more willing to state your Chapter is "treading water", I'm right with you brother!!!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

FB,

Greetings!

I can certainly empathize. Scouts and Scouters only have so much of an available calendar, before their evenings and weekends are totally filled up. Over the years, I've been a constant but background member of some strong Chapters and Lodges (and some not so strong Chapters and Lodges). Equally, like I'm sure most of our fellow Arrowmen and Scouters, I am or have been a member of community-based groups, social groups, church groups, whew!!! I know Im getting over committed, when the boss my wife has to schedule an appointment on my calendar. LOL. Jokingly, but most Arrowmen place attending or supporting their chapter and lodge lower on the list of their to do list. Especially, if there is little incentive or fun value in it.

If opinions were truly a dime a dozen, I'd be a millionaire. I thought you stated "Somebody might have a suggestion". Being thick headed sometimes, I'm not sure if that was directed for your own Lodge and Chapter or posted to the forum for suggestions from Fellow Arrowmen.

Here is my suggestion. My current Lodge and Chapter share similar difficulties. We are geographically spread over many miles. The youth and adult Arrowmen are transitory every two to three years. The youth have their school homework, own troop events, church and youth sports, which occupy most of their time.

Regarding my Chapter Sometimes adult Scouters scratch their head at OA elections. My oldest was elected into the OA at 16 when he was a Life Scout, (after being passed up for four years of elections). Now my oldest Eagle was elected Chapter Chief before he turned 18. Our local Chapter has not held meetings in 3-4 years. Our Chapter Advisors are good adults, but usually transitory and busy as well; and for business reasons often they can rarely attend the recent chapter meetings. Compounded by just a few parents will drive their youth Arrowmen to a chapter meeting five or more miles down the road, just to sit in the car for an hour and then drive home.

Back to my oldest son (my local Chapter Chief) who is 18 now, I really don't want to be my son's Chapter Advisor, but I will attempt to give him a little advice.

FB, I may be long in explaining, but I typed all this to explain my Chapters current dilemma.

I explained to my Chapter Chief, the OA handbook and the Guide for Officers and Advisor seem to have many Chapter responsibilities and duties. I advise him to be a realist. Do not tackle all of the duties at the same time, but attempt the most important duties. And finally, try a 50/50 mix of work and fun.

At some prior OA weekends I've attended in various lodges and chapters, Arrowmen work from 8 am till 8 pm, then maybe the youth have enough energy to break out a movie or video game by 10 pm. Whew!! Working that hard, Who wouldn't sign up for the next OA event?

Call me insane, but the youth will come for the fun, and a little bit of OA.

We now have Chapter meetings at the same time and location as Roundtable. The building is available and sometimes it increases attendance in both meetings. At most Chapter meetings the Arrowmen have some of the most tempting frosty Root Beer and the spiciest Beef Jerky. The Chapter Chief emails an OA meeting flyer invitation each month, to the entire Chapter, to encourage attendance at the meeting. With an hour to meet, I ask him to conduct 30 minutes of business (accepting the most important duties first), then break out the video games or gaming magazines. Next month they are planning a service weekend at a community-based camping lodge. The Arrowmen will be painting the exterior of the lodge, then a "You Can Dew It" Mountain Dew XBOX tourney inside the building that night.

So... Finally.. My bottom line...

About K-putt is something I know a lot about. I'm not a miracle worker and neither is my Chapter Chief. He cannot make Arrowmen attend. But he can offer a lot of fun, with a little OA work. He can concentrate on the basic and most important tasks and not all of the tasks at the same time (Some tasks our Chapter may never get around to performing, during his term).

Is our Chapter "running on all four pistons?" Heck no. But if you make an analogy, maybe you can say, our Chapter is getting a "tune up" and we will have to wait and see, how well it runs after it gets out of the "garage".

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Robert,

Greetings!

It has become more difficult to find the NCS schedules. I suspect due to learner availability the regional schedules have become more fluid over the years. So the NCS courses are probably announced with shorter lead times.

Attached below is the Northeast Region website with their NCS schedule for 2007. Enjoy your time at NCS!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

http://www.nerbsa.org/program/campschool/documents/2007%20Res%20NCS%20Brochure.doc

Brian and Fellow Scouters,

Greetings! To answer Brian's question, I would state the Range Officer certification would require a field part, in addition to class room setting.

Some Boy Scouts programs have risk. The shooting range (shotgun, rifle and air rifle), archery range, and waterfront, all have some risk.

Believe it or not. There are accidental shootings and drowning nearly each year. Again, believe it or not, thankfully outside of Boy Scout camps, but on rare occasion youth and adults have been killed or permanently disable with one shot from a BB gun, striking the spine. With proper training the accident rate is extremely low, making Boy Scout Summer camp and Cub Day camps one of the safest summer programs available. So, most all Aquatics Directors and Shooting Sports Directors take their job seriously.

I last served as SSD in 99; and I have not reviewed my Shooting Sports Directors manuals in a few years, but a Shooting Sports Director is allow to certify Range Officers (SSD carried a five year certification, I believe Range Officer was a two year certification). If a Range Officer comes to the camp with existing credentials (from the NRA and NAA, or U.S. Armed Forces for Rifle), the SSD may re-certify a range officer within their local council based on the pre-existing and current credentials. A popular quote that President Reagan even used, which most directors may use also would be "Trust, but verify".

Archery is usually the stopping point. While there may be just one NAA Archery coaches at the local high schools and colleges, it is rare that they are also Cub Scout or Boy Scout parents. So completing a Range Officer course is usually needed for everyone desiring to operate an air rifle and archery range at Cub Day Camp.

As simple as it seems, the safest shooting position for an air rifle in the prone position. A Range Officer or staff can easily stop a boy that is swinging his misfiring BB rifle to the left or right. But the shooting stance for archery (depending of left/right hand dominancy) is standing and straddling a line (or rope) on the ground. After finishing, it is easy for an eager Cub Scout to run to their target to see how well the have done, while his fellow Cub Scouts are still volleying (or firing).

Also, while safety is the first thing taught in Archery Merit Badge class or Rifle and Shotgun Merit Badge Class. It can be difficult for an 11 y/o on his first summer camp.

Safety is tremendously a difficult subject for Cub Scout age to comprehend. Young Cub Scouts between 6-10 years old need simple rules, fast and quick with simple consequences. (If you violate any safety rules, you are off of the range.) While the Range Officer and staff, understand the safety rules and procedures in depth.

For a Shooting Sports Director to conduct a range officers course, range experience is desired, but those that attend have usually been the participant and not in charge of over all safety. Except for the Volumes of literature for the SSD; I have not seen any shorter curriculum or timeline for a Range Officer certification. Part of the "Trust, but verify" would have the SSD taking the newest Range Officers to the field for practical demonstration. The practical is not necessarily to teach a Range Officer how to breath, aim, squeeze, release. It would be too late to learn how to accurately strike a target. The purpose of a practical Range Officer course would be to re-enforce safety procedures, calls and whistles, over and over again.

All that to say. Expect a full day class for Range Officer certification. Maybe a half day of academics in a classroom setting. But definitely expect a half day of practical training at a rifle and archery range.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

CA_Scouter,

Greetings!

If I may offer my opinion.

A sale of Major League or even Minor League memorabilia may be a good idea for a fund raiser for the Troop.

Taking it from a sale, to a raffle or auction seems to violate BSA policy.

Again... my own thoughts. The Sale is a great idea.. The Auction is not so good an idea.

One of the first requirements is to fill out the Unit Money Earning Application and see if the Chartering Organizations approves and then the council service office approves.

Here is the link to the form.

http://www.scouting.org/forms/34427.pdf

In addition to authorization from your respective local city council, local authorities, and/or your city 4th of July celebration director.

Also, a unit fund raiser should be billed as support Scout Troop number ____ of the ____ city, and not represent the entire BSA. Usually, Boy Scouts are not allowed to wear their complete BSA uniform, and are normally in unit T-shirts or polo's, when soliciting funds for their specific unit.

Following the guidelines in the Money Earning Application should allow you to have a good fund raiser for your Troop's program.

Good Luck!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Enri and Fellow Scouters,

Greetings again!

Some of my fellow BSA Scouters could probably comment in better detail, but I'll give it a try.

Enri, here is a discussion of how BSA Scouts will be attending this summer.

As BSA units are getting prepared to go to the World Jamboree in Hyde Park, England this Summer, they Troops and Crews are coming from four (BSA divided) geographic regions of the U.S.. The 2005 BSA National Jamboree Troops had 36 youth and 4 adults in each Troop. But I believe the BSA (regional) Troops attending the 2007 World Jamboree will be at about 60 members in each unit.

The BSA World Jamboree attending Scouts will be coming from a few different states and cities to create these World Jamboree Troops. So there are a few opportunities for fund raising, but not many. As these Scouts will only meet each other in emails, and newsletters. The London historical tours, in addition to being educational, will also serve as a "gathering activity" or "bonding experience", so when they arrive at their campsite in Hyde park, they will be a well oiled machine. Ideally, they will appear like a Troop that has been around for years, although most all of them will have just met days prior to the World Jamboree.

The added excursions will tack on a few more dollars to the cost, but I would say that they are worth it. It would be hard to convince a parent to send their Scout to the other side of the globe, to take a bus between the airport to camp and back to the airport. Adding in a bonding experience and history lesson will encourage some parents to budget for their Scout to attend.

To raise this large dollar amount, a few families may not even wink at the price tag. A few will cringe, but consider it a "once in a lifetime" gift for their Scout. But most of the individual Scouts will have a "pass the hat" campaign or spaghetti dinner or other fund raiser for their Troop, church or community. And hopefully the neighborhood will rally around their local scout to send the Scout to the World Jamboree. Otherwise, "A Scout is Thrifty", and will be mowing lawns until they are in college.

So Enri, the districts, councils and regions will not directly fund the BSA Troops to attend. But they will assist in a few fundraising events.

Jokingly, I have known a few Scouters (who have sent their Scout, or attended or wanted to attend the World Jamboree) to roll their eyes at the Gross Domestic Product rating and cost determination by the World Organization of Scouting Movement, but in the end, they concur "Every Scout deserves to opportunity to attend".

I hope that somewhat explains the high price tag for BSA Scouts attending the WSJ.

Ciao, Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Eamonn and Fellow Scouters,

I do not want to hijack this string and not intending to sidebar the conversation too far from Eamonn's original string.

But... Eamonn stated "There really is no real Eagle Promise or Pledge."

As my family prepared for my oldest sons' ceremony, we looked at many scripts and ceremonies, and found two, maybe three Eagle Scout Pledges.

It was a big event for my son, we had a great ceremony and afterward a dinner, DJ and dancing for the teens. As my son, wife and myself wrote and re-wrote the script, ceremony, dinner and party. The days counting down to his Eagle Court of Honor ceremonies, we received his Eagle package at the Council.

I know some of the items were provided by my local council, and some of the items were provide from National. Inside the Eagle package was his Eagle Certificate, Letter of Congratulations from Chief Scout Executive Roy L. Williams, and National Commissioner (at the time) Rick Cronk, and an Eagle Scout Pledge (which we used this in his ceremony and placed in the album with other letters). Along with just a few additional tokens from Council.

All that to say.... I've seen just a few versions of the Eagle Pledge, but I thought that the Eagle Scout Pledge in my sons Eagle package was provided by National, and would therefore be considered official.

My question is; Did anyone else receive this sheet in their Eagle's package? or is this just an insert from my council?

The ceremony is all about OJ and his accomplishments, and should contain whatever script he is happy with.

I am only asking to find out if this Eagle Scout Pledge (I thought came from National) is official.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

My family would certainly love to attend the 2007 World Jamboree. I've been invited to serve on the International Service Team (yeah, I know, who hasn't?), but my goodness, even the IST cost is also very expensive.

My beloved wife, has offered to sell my BSA patch collection on ebay to cover the cost of our trip. I tell her those patches are more sentimental value than monetary value; so we will have to consider the 22nd World Jamboree in five years... lol

Possibly I believe my family will soon be purchasing a day pass to walk into the National Jamboree for one day during the entire event. And just take a long deserved Summer vacation in London. On the positive side, my entire family was fortunate enough to attend the 2005 BSA National Jamboree as Jamboree participants.

But finally getting down to the point. The reason why I'm adding to this post is a few Scouters may be surprised at the wide difference between the Italian and American fees.

A few of our fellow Scouters might appreciate the USD and Euro exchange rate. It is about 74 Euro cent to 1 USD.

As our new Italian Scouter friend Enri stated, the Scouts of Italy may be paying approximately 500 Euro (equal to about 680 USD). But the BSA members attending are paying in the neighborhood of 2500, plus extra for travel, and excursions around London. Roughly 3500 U.S. Dollars each.

Just to clarify, the individual Scout fee is set by the World Scout Bureau and is calculated according to a country's Gross Domestic Product. I guess the BSA coming from one of the countries in the G8 summit (with a high GDP income) cost BSA Scouts and other profitable GDP countries more to attend.

Oh well, maybe by the 22nd World Jamboree, I can sell off my patch collection to attend. lol

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

T-126-FDExplorer,

Greetings!

I would imagine the Fire Explorer patch would be sold thru the National Supply Center in Charlotte, NC. Usually, if you call their 800 number they can view items by name or BIN/UPC number. Item No. 04032A

Look at the patch under the Learning for Life webpage. Then look at what's new? and then click on Online Resource Catalog. It is called the Fire/Emergency Services Exploring Emblem Patch.

Although intended for a career exploring uniform (provided by your Explorer Post), it could probably be worn in the temporary patch location (centered on the right pocket) or on the back of the Merit Badge Sash, with other camporee patches and temporary insignia). Ask your Patrol Leader first though, then if needed, ask your Scoutmaster or Unit Commissioner about where to place the patch.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Venturers,

Greetings again!

This topic of Venturing Honor Societies have been discussed and brought up before.

Without repeating too much of what has already been posted. As usual, we have a lot of experience in Scouting and only a few year of experience in Venturing in the forum, and had some excellent topics and opinions. I certainly enjoy the insight from my fellow Venturers. I would like to share two thoughts on Honor Societies.

My first thought. This has often been stated before (and I wish I was original is saying this.. lol), but what does the National Venturing Cabinet think about this? Have they been approached? Many times we say, what do the youth think about this (or other) topics?

That is usually the way ground-roots campaigns begin. Not just us emailing, blogging or online forum talking about these topics, but discussing these topics with those (National Venturing Cabinet, Regional Cabinets and Council Teen Council or Venturing Officers Association) that are suppose to set goals, and have the National/Council vision and mission. So Crews and Advisors that like the idea of honor societies, should discuss this with the VOA-TLC or National Venturing Cabinet.

My second thought. Whatever theme is taken, Venturing BSA should be cautious regarding symbols and heraldy that describe an Venturing Honor Society.

i.e. Order of the Arrow now concentrates more on the Arrow theme, rather than the legacy Indian and Indian Headdress theme. While OA still maintains titles, names, and priciple characters of the Lene Lenape tribe, all the logos have been changed to an Arrow theme to be less offensive to Native American tribes. We certainly wouldn't want to get a lawsuit from an angry crowd of poobahs out there.....lol

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

MsSnowman,

Greetings!

Most of our fellow Scouters have quoted the G2SS. So you've seen the BSA policy statement. Inside the G2SS, you will usually see normal print and bold print. The bold print should strictly be followed, while the normal print are safety guidelines. Essentially to have a safe program, and ensure no accidental injuries occur during any event.

Similarly, when the Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmasters invite the Committee (and sometimes other parents) on trips, this is to ensure there is enough adult leadership. The Scoutmaster and Committee, usually entrust those adults to make their best decision. Sometimes extremely too safe, and sometimes just within the safe guidelines.

Myself as an Assistant Scoutmaster, Venturing Advisor, and parent, I cannot attend every event that my boys do. I would much more prefer to receive my boys back with all ten fingers and ten toes, and no piercing; and I always thank the leaders for taking care of my boys. That being said, I would side with your Committee Chair for this tale of woe.

It was also stated, that you can usually find council policies, and/or the individual troop bylaws and rules.

Depending if your Troop was camping on Council property (or state, or community campsite), almost always on Council property, you will find agreement rules, which include a more strict "no sheath knife" policy. Ask your District or Council camping chair for a copy of the campsite agreement (and policies).

On another slant. Your CC thinks fixed blade "sheath" knives are unsafe. Well, so are an ax yard, bow saws, propane stoves, archery equipment, the rifle range, BMX bikes, even a camp swimming pool; it all depends on if they are used maturely and properly.

Now just a few more questions I would ponder...

How old (or young) is this Scout? 10 1/2 or is he 17? He surely cannot be as experienced in the outdoors as some of our posters. Is this sheath knife larger than what he should be carrying? Or is it the appropriate size for the patrol kitchen, or whittling?

If this Scout is not responsible enough to maintain his own equipment and can not find his pocketknife (which he misplaced) is he then responsible enough for a sheath knife? Will he continue to misplace his pocketknife before every campout?

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

GWD,

Not exactly.

However, the Local Tour Permit is a planning document. It is so that you plan a trip, excursion, or event safely. (Sometimes even on the other side of town, driving to another location, during regular meeting time).

If the Committee Member and Tour Leader's signatures at the bottom of the form attest that all the drivers are legally licensed and insured automobile operators, then the Committee Member and Tour Leader are liable. The Council is only processing to confirm that a unit has adequately planned their trip.

It reassures the leader that all Scouts have seat belts, all drivers are currently insured and licensed. If you go near a lake, you have reviewed safe swim defense and will follow it exactly, etc, etc.

The end result is so the tour leader has stepped thru most all snags and confirmed to the parents that there will be a safe trip.

On rare occasions, a unit will not arrive at a predetermined a location. Still as a planning document, a processed tour permit may help by providing the driving route and agenda to law enforcement and families. They may begin searching hiking trails, campsites, or possible the highway rest-stops/gas stations.

Please check for yourself, I am recalling from memory. But the local tour permit is for less than 500 miles and recommended. (you can still proceed with a trip, even if it is not adequately planned). A National Tour Permit (500 miles or more) and International Tour Permit are required to be processed by Council or National, respectfully. This is when it become mandatory.

I have usually been informed, that most council insurance is a supplemental insurance (normally thru Mutual of Omaha is what I've seen in the Councils I've lived in, but other insurance companies may be determined by the Council Health and Safety Committee) As a supplemental, the youth should be admitted immediately, but any emergency care payment will be on the individual insurance, then the councils supplemental insurance.

Certainly correct me if I'm wrong... but I've heard these statements a few times...

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Lisa,

Greetings!

You're son is not alone.

Many Scouts lose their handbooks. (Although, not a Boy Scout handbook, I too have often lost keys, wallets, money, my marbles, etc)

It is difficult for a youth to remember his handbook at all meetings, plus uniform, plus homework, plus school, plus chores. A handbook could easily be overlooked or forgotten.

This is what I "preach" in my units.

I always recommend to my troop parents to purchase a second school backpack. Maybe even brightly colored. I ask them not to use the same school backpack they take to school, because they are constantly lugging around math and science curriculum books already. They are already way too heavy for an 11 y/o. Go out to the department store and purchase another 10-20 dollar backpack.

Within this small backpack, the can carry their handbook, Troop meeting plans, menu planning, Patrol Leaders record book, Song book, skits, Patrol Leaders handbook, Order of the Arrow handbook, Troop Record book (for the Troop Scribe), Den Chief Handbook, merit badge pamphlets, and notebook paper.

It is easy to lose a handbook, but it is a little more difficult to lose a backpack.

While, I'm on my soapbox.....

Camping backpacks sometimes take even longer for young Scouts to obtain. Some parents don't understand why their boy needs a camping backpack. They show up for a 5 mile hike with their school backpack and they strap trash bags of clothes and trash bags of pillows and a trash bag of their oversized Spiderman sleeping bags. I love Spiderman, but Gee-whiz parents! At least invest in a cheap camping backpack.

So I preach to the boys, "At Christmas and your birthdays, ask Mom, Dad and Santa for camping gear, back packs, and tents!! Who really needs XBOX 360, IPODs or Playstation?"

The meeting room usually goes silent after that, like Crew21 Adv dropped a curse word.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Eagle1984 and Fellow Scouters,

I would concur with OGE. That Red Cross does not sell blood to hospitals. Here is from the Red Cross FAQ's

Why does the Red Cross sell blood and blood products that are given freely by donors?

The American Red Cross is a nonprofit organization that supplies almost half of the nation's blood supply by working with more than 4 million donors and 3,000 hospitals. We rely on the generous gifts volunteer blood donors provide us. In order for the Red Cross to make that gift available to patients in need, we must collect, store, test and process the blood. There are significant costs associated with each of these processes, and in order for us to continue making one person's donation available to someone else who needs it, we must charge for the testing and processing of the blood to recoup these costs.

However, there are commercial blood banks and blood wagons that do sell for profit. Their agendas are good as well, however some other blood banks (outside the Red Cross and Military blood bank) are usually a profitable businesses.

Regarding District/Council Approval, I only see the approval given to the service project plan, but not to the project completion. Completion is determined by the Scout, unit leader and benefactor.

My own thoughts...

I love the above and beyond service projects, they are fantastic. The Eagle Scout, the Troop and the community should remember for years. But I am also happy with meeting the minimum.

All I personally find close to a minimum in the application is "demonstrate leadership to others" also "demonstrate your leadership of two or more individuals in planning and carrying out your project" So my own interpretation is at least 2 youth.

Regarding the amount of time all I see is this "...the number of hours they worked each day, and the total length of time others assisted on the project." Which leads me to my own interpretation of at least 2 hours, or more than one.

Call me easy... Maybe that's why I haven't been asked to assume District Advancement... lol

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Jaffolder,

Greetings!

I would expect duplicate medals are possible to purchase or obtain with the proper credentials.

God and Country medals are awarded by the individual's denomination. But duplicate medals would probably be available via www.praypub.org.

The Eagle Scout Medal is a restricted item. I would expect it is possible to obtain duplicate Eagle Scout medals with the appropriate credentials. Obtaining the duplicate may take some paperwork and verification to affirm you have earned the Eagle rank and were previously awarded. Depending on where you are now and where you grew up as a youth. Your old councils advancement or registrar may have additional credentials of your status of an Eagle Scout. Possibly at least your rank status on annual recharters, reflect Eagle or the various palms in the rank status. Also possibly, An old membership into NESA or an old subscription to the NESA Eagleletter bulletin. But I would expect you would have to deliver these credentials to your current council to obtain a duplicate medal.

Good Luck!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Hillis,

Greetings!

There are a few resources out there. I've attended a "Ceremony" class in 99 as a refresher. Boy!, there are alot of things you don't pick up as an Ordeal candidate or Brotherhood.

I have recently found a powerpoint title Symbolism in the Order of the Arrow, created by "Tray" Murphy of Nawakwa Lodge. There are probably a few other sites out there that provide exactly what you need. But the Nawakwa site and Tray Murphy's email contact on that page should be a good start.

http://www.nawakwa.org/php/

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Venturers,

Greetings!

If I may offer my own opinion (or opinions this may go on for a while, lol). Please take them with a grain of salt, though....

The basis of the Venturing Program seems good and sound to me. Five different programs for older teenaged youth to pursue. The biggest pitfall of most Venturing units, are when they become just a social group with no planning or agenda.

Even working with older youth may become slightly a chore. They have some creative and great ideas, but even with Officer Briefing, Officer Seminar, and VLSC, they have little of their own initiative to plan, execute, follow-thru and critique.

I believe even our own teenaged youth are conditioned this way in life and school. Even in high school with a large teenage population, the school set the curriculum, teachers assign homework, give test and quizzes, and teachers grade. As creative as most teens are, they still have to follow someone else's established path. Some might call this next generation the Microwave Generation (gotta have it right now) things happen so fast in a teen's busy life, they have no patients to wait and work. Also, home and school place them into a cookie cutter approach to life, until they actually venture into the own independent life (I would say somewhere between age 18-22) That is when they only begin to be held independently responsible for decisions and deadlines. Many Venturing units desire to be entire Youth Led, but Adult Association is one of the Venturing methods. And unless a Crew has the Captain or Quarterback of the Football team, or the Homecoming Queen in their Crew, all other Crews need a lot of Adult Association to plan, execute, follow thru and critique.

I would like to use a couple of metaphors now to illustrate. Some people will comment about placing a carrot in front of the horse and kart. Also, baiting a hook just right so the fish will begin biting. Please don't think I am comparing any of our Venturers to the animal world. But, when we have one of our few Parents Nights (Venturing Court of Honor), our Venturers see just a few of their friends earning Bronze and rarely a Gold, the whole Crew becomes excited and desires to earn one themselves. Boy, do the get excited! "How do I earn one of those?!", is the common question for the night.

Unfortunately, this high energy excitement and motivation wears off very quickly, maybe two weeks, maybe a month if I am lucky.

Another pro's and con's. Again this is my opinion. Bronze, Gold and Silver Awards. The Venturing Recognition system is not an advancement, but still a recognition path. However, the steps between them are enormous. I cannot quote from any of the 40-50's Ranger handbooks, but these achievements require sooooo much work, they are spread over 2-3 years of Scouting. Venturers become disenfranchised with the recognition program. The lose their focus and mission. Then drift into a social crew.

Don't get me wrong. I do like the Venturing recognition program. But I do believe these achievements are too difficult. Similarly, just a few years ago, the Boy Scout program did away with the Belt Loops and incorporated those requirements into the regular rank requirements. A few short years after that, the Boy Scouting program did away with time requirements between Scout rank thru First Class. Many of the Boy Scout Merit Badge requirements reduced the 500 word reports down to 200 word reports. I can empathize. It is difficult for an 11 y/o Scout to write a 200 word report. It does not come easy. All these modifications were done while attempting to maintain the integrity of the Boy Scout ranks, but still entice Scouts to advance and not stray from their Troop and Scouting all together, these changes occurred.

Similarly, I do feel that Venturing may need to modify the Recognition program. Possibly even making them more attainable, more accessible, so that Venturers can earn them at a more rapid pace. What is the cure? I'm not sure, maybe simplifying the requirements. Maybe creating a Venturing belt loop program, as an immediate recognition program (and middle way to the Bronze Award). Similar changes caused huge waves in the Boy Scouting program, but we got over it. Now, I believe Boy Scouts are advancing faster and remaining interested and focused in the Troop and Boy Scouting.

I have emailed the National Venturing Youth Cabinet President Maggie Bell and cc'd a Cabinet mentor Craig Murray about this, offering it as my opinion.

So, getting to the point, my bottom line has three agendas.

Venturing Program Helps

Adult Association (enhanced)

Intermediate Recognitions or Simplified Recognitions

A cookie cutter approach, with more structured themed monthly program (similar to Cubs and Boy Scouts). Similar to the Program Helps and pre-written Troop, Den and Pack Meeting Plans of the other programs, a pre-written Venturing Meeting Agenda written inside the Venturing Leaders Handbook. More Adult Association, while maintaining the integrity of youth officer led, incorporate a Crew Committee review of each step or place an younger Associate Advisor on the committee (aged 22-25 maybe?). Simplify the Venturing Advancements, or offer intermediate recognitions enroute to Bronze, Gold and Silver. I honestly believe these changes would excite Venturers and Advisors alike, and most all Venturing Crews would flourish.

Calling it a Plan B, may be a stretch. I would prefer to say a more focused approach to Venturing, and modifying the program we already have.

Thanks for allowing me to rant. Whew!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Bing,

Greetings and welcome to the forum!

Probably the first question everyone will ask you, have you been thru training yet?

Most of the training, currently, (in my own words) consists mostly of safety and financing. It wraps up briefly with the advancement program and manuals. Monthly program ideas come in the way of Roundtable, Scouting Magazine Program Helps, and Boy's Life.

As I have moved thru the programs with my boys, and have both attended and facilitated training. I always comment on the various attention span of the youth (my own is pretty darn short).

I usually joke that a teenaged Venturer has an attention span of 90 seconds. So for a Boy Scout, maybe at a minute. Then a Webelos at 30 seconds. So the Den Leaders in attendance can humorously appreciate that their boys attention span lingers on topic, somewhere between 5-30 seconds.

That being said. My thoughts are that a Den Leader is thinking program for the entire hour, hour and half. Leaving advancements, handbook signatures, immediate recognitions, permission slips, dues and etc for the end of the meeting.

The Den Leader should be one step ahead of the boys at all times, reading their handbook front to back, and learning what they need for advancement. Roundtable is usually designed for a monthly program specifically to satisfy advancement requirements. Most Cub Scout aged boys are fast moving and quick to turn to another subject that will excite them, if a Den meeting becomes boring (lightening speed or somewhere in about 30 seconds). So it would be up to the Den Leader to ensure they constantly have a program to work on and program material to satisfy their rank advancement needs.

All that to say. "No one man is an army" (or one woman). Be sure to have Assistant Den Leaders, a Den Chief, and even parents to do all your admin (the dues, permission slips, snacks, recognitions, obtaining program material and advancement report to the committee). Good Luck and Good Scouting!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv