Crew21_Adv

Fellow Scouters,

Just an FYI..

On the Trails End Popcorn webpage. There usually is an "Ideal Year of Scouting".xls Microsoft Excel formatted file. If your unit sales popcorn or not, anyone should be able to download this easy to use file.

It helps with planning an annual budget. Most of our fellow posters have eluded to it. But if you compare the advancement and advancement cost between Cub Scout program, the Boy Scout program, and the Venturing Program.

A good Cub Scout Pack averages around 40 boys. Some Packs down to 20, some Packs upwards to 60-70. The count recognition each month, ranks, parents pins, belt loops, immediate recognition kit, handbooks, neckerchief slides, etc. Then program cost, museum visits, Blue and Gold, any of the derbies. There are even more cost than this, I'm sure everyone can think of.

All Cub Scout Packs need a good Pack Committee Treasurer to keep up with in incoming and outgoing funds.

My bottom line is, I would encourage every Committee Chair or Treasurer to check out the Ideal Year of Scouting, excel file. This simple tool will help them plan on how much of an annual budget is needed. Then present to the Committee the Budget Plan, then proceed to the Unit Money Earning Project (s) application.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Brian,

Greetings again!

I feel that the BSA program is still the best program available to youth today.

My credentials.. I have been in Scouting for over 25 years now. In addition to being a parent, I have been a Sunday School teacher, a PTSO board member, a AYSO and NYSO Soccer coach, a Little League Baseball Coach, a Summer Camp Program Director and Camp Commissioner.

Sure, there are other programs out there, the 4H, the Future Farmers of America, the National Honor Society, Little League, the Girls and Boys Club of America, Junior Achievement, YMCA Adventure Guides, the list goes on... They all have their own benefits to the youth.

But I feel the BSA wraps all the benefits a youth would receive from these various programs, all up into one excellent BSA program.

The BSA continues to study new challenges, safe programs, while adding fun and excitement. I do not think the BSA is doing anything wrong, as you asked.

Honestly, as I attend fall and spring camporees, I see many youth learning and laughing and enjoying the time with their friends; while advancing thru their Scouting ranks. I believe the program and appeal is there for the boys.

Brian, Rather than asking "is scouting different now, with declining membership, than it was 10 years ago, when membership was increasing?" or "what are we doing different or wrong NOW compared to what were the BSA leaders were doing 10 years ago (during the years of increase)?"

You probably should have asked, what can we be doing to increase membership?

On both sides of the fence, I have seen boys and parents seek out and approach our troop to join. But also in recent years, I have witnessed young boys begging to join Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts with their friends; for their parents to say, "No!".

I do not understand the parent that will drop 600 dollars for a two month season of baseball, and say 10 dollars for Scouting is too expensive. The parents that will drive 200 miles for their son to sit on the bench throughout a game, but won't drive their son 2 miles to a Scout meeting. No kidding, I am honestly confused why parents will do this...

I love youth sports and encourage it as well as Scouting. But honestly, maybe a quarter of all these young athletes will play in High School.

Honestly Brian. I do believe that Scouting is appealing to most all the youth. But, it seems to be less appealing to their parents.

Others may disagree with my thoughts. I believe Scouting should equally conduct more media campaigns aimed towards the parents (as well as their youth). It is the parent that will sign up as a partner, it is a parent that will give up their "TV night", it is the parent that will drive a Scout to meeting, and usually a parent that will drive a Scout to camp.

From my perspective, The parents with Scouts in the BSA program love it! The parents without a Scout in the BSA program, just do not know what they are missing out on.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Brian,

Greetings!

First off, congrats on completing the second and practical portion of Wood Badge. Here are a couple of comments in my own opinion.

Is it disrespectful to request WB bead just be mailed?

I feel that everyone should celebrate successes and completions, at work, at school, at home, at church, at Scouts, and etc. Both youth and adults. Do you celebrate each anniversary? Do you celebrate birthdays? Do you celebrate graduations? Do you feel that your ticket accomplishment has assisted yourself, as well as the youth you serve? Then I personally would celebrate a success.

Many youth enjoy seeing their fathers and mothers contributions appreciated. If it is WB Beads, training knot, camporee patch, certificate, a gag gift, or a handshake.

Most Committee Chairs know that the occasional Congressional Pat on the Back Cheer and Golf Clap are the little things that keep the parents putting mileage on the van and gas in the tanks.

And a talented Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, Advisor, or Commissioner knows how not to take time away from the boys or take the spotlight away from the youth.

As for your second question.

Is 300 documentable hours and $5000 spent enough to get the few critics who did not like my website to realize my leader's approval was not insane?

Do you have to put a price tag on your contributions to Scouting? Most Wood Badgers continue to give, beyond completing their ticket and achieving their beads. (Time, money, resources, skills, etc) They never quiet reach the finish line of trying to serve their sons, their family and Scouting.

If you feel that you have to ask if you spent enough.maybe you should review your Wood Badge notes, or maybe even consider attending the next years course again.

Finally, I really don't think you want to compare time and money that you have contributed to Scouting with our fellow Scouters on this forum. ((On a humorous note, maybe some Scouting widows would like to swap some stories))

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Trailfinder,

Greetings!

Alot of the answers from this forum would be to ask what the Venturing Crew youth desire.

In my opinion, concerning most of the Venturing aged youth today, their definition of fun and education changes direction with the wind.

This years favorite topic, was Geo-Cache-Photo-Scavanger hunt in a downtown major city. That evening followed by a Air guitar, Lip Sync, Karaoke (teen appropriate language) concert in lieu of a campfire. Followed by an XBOX tournament.

Bottom line, the GeoCaching would teach them how to use a handheld GPS system and Photo-Scavenger hunt may allow them to visit historic statues and museums, and ideally read the placard of that respective location.

As for the Lip Sync Air Guitar/Air Band concert and XBOX tourney; well that is just for social fun which they seem to enjoy.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

rkfrance,

Greetings!

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your troop's IH/CO.

The death of a friend and memorial services are an event that most youth do not experience until their adulthood. There is very little current literature or established guidelines that I know of in the BSA. Online, you may view the Relationship Division, BSA, Chaplains Aide manual, which describes only one possible service.

http://www.scouting.org/relationships/chaplains/index.html

There are probably just few common practices when a troop (or troops) attend a memorial service. Some life long Scouters and their families have established a small endowment to their respective council, which will go on to help many of the Scouts in the neighborhood, city or state. But another way is to ask for beneficiary contributions be made to the local council in lieu of flowers.

I myself am living overseas again, and regretfully I had a good friend and Scouter pass away just a couple of month ago, in the Gulf Coast Council, Florida. Too far away for myself to attend. His service was held at noon on a Friday (a school day), but it was reported that he had many more youth and adults from the community and nearby cities in Scouting uniform to attend his memorial services, than family and friends in formal attire. I understand that the extended family was touched by the impact this man had on Scouting.

Similarly, his immediate family established a fund at the council office, in lieu of floral arrangements.

Again.. Sorry for your loss.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

VentureRobb,

I guess I'm not done yet. While reviewing the National Venturing Cabinet and Central Region Venturing page.....

I came accross the photo gallery of their 2006 Central Region Venturing Area 2 Assemblage (camporee). They have an image of their event patch, with the Venturing Logo inside the patch.

http://www.crventuring.org/photogallery.php?id=28&page=2

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Kahits,

Greetings!

EMB pretty much hit all the main points. I do not have my Scouting literature with me right now, but if I may also add a few thoughts from my memory.

The Crew Officers Briefing is so the new officers understand their jobs. (Also look on www.nationalventuringcabinet.org, there are three new officer positions added for large crews to use; Crew Historian, Crew Quartermaster and Crew Guide) This would be similar equivalent to the Troop Leadership Training, and the Officers would be considered Trained after this briefing, and eligible to wear the Trained strip.

It can be done with the President and Advisor, but as EMB said, it is online under the national website, which explains the Briefing much better.

The Crew Officers Seminar is fairly similar to the Boy Scout Annual Planning Conference. This is where the crew takes the Activity Interest Surveys and Program Capability Inventory, the council calendar, school calendar and community calendar and then write their own Crew calendar to include Activity Chairs.

The VLSC is so that they incorporate planning and communication along with other skills. Everyone could use more planning and communications in their units, right? Our youth at home and at school, even some Boy Scouts in a youth run organization, are used to being told what to do. "Do your homework, do your school work, do your merit badge, clean your room, etc." The VLSC helps them to break their routine and plan & communicate their plans.

KODIAK is so they can develop life long communications, planning and ethical skills, delivered in a fun environment so the can remember their experiences and skills.

Having said that. Transitioning from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts to Venturing, we may believe the Venturing Leaders Manual is written just for the Advisor(s). I would say that is a half truth. The Venturing Leaders Manual is meant for both the Advisor(s) and the Crew Officers. The Crew Officers should break open this manual and read it, front to back.

Now the Venturing Leaders Manual (34655D) has gone thru about three revisions since the first edition. Only minor changes each time, but I believe the Crew Officers Seminar was previous conducted by a member of the Council Venturing Committee.

I previously have had this similar discussion (over a year ago) of inviting a council member to conduct the Crew Officers Seminar with us; and between looking in my manual, my wife's manual and my son's manual (you guessed it, three different editions and three minor changes). Stubbornly, I knew that we had to invite a member of the Council to our seminar; after all it was in black and white. Until I read the newest edition of the Leaders manual. The Seminar may now be hosted with just the Advisor(s) and the Crew President.

Similarly, KODIAK was previously a Council course, with Council SE approval. In order to allow more use of the course, it became a Council or District course, still with Council SE approval. Now KODIAK may now be conducted as low as the Crew level (or still with the Council or District), but still with the Council SE approval.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Venture Robb,

Greetings!

I'm inclined to agree with LongHaul and our fellow posters.

As I understand, almost all of the BSA logos are copyrighted, but may be used with permission. To include these logos being place on patches, t-shirts, coffee mugs and etc. Permission should be granted by the SE, after recommendation of the respective council executive board.

Council and District events usually get the "rubber stamp" approval, without any hesitation on the logo use, but only editing the artwork itself. My local Venturers and Arrowmen have obtained SE approval for the reproduction of copyright logos imbedded in event patches, I have a few of these patches in my own collection.

There are still Scouters that have eventually been permitted to produce amateur scouting patches. I.E. BSA National Supply has yet to produce knots on green background, or seascouting knots on white and black backgrounds. Some Scouters and their units which have received national BSA permission to recreate knots and other BSA copyright items are; Venturing Crew #697, SageVenturer, Rafi Sharif, and The Ship's Store.

Still there are other Scouters that have created spoof patches, which are very popular as Scouting gag gift items or recognitions. (Southern Drawl, html, overtrained, The Sopranos OA pocket flap, the list could go on for a while)

My bottom line is.

Are BSA logos copyrighted? Yes. As I understand.

Can use of copyrighted BSA logos be authorized? Yes, by request, and permission of the SE. As I understand.

Take everyone's advice (mine included) with a grain of salt. And submit your patch design to your Council Scout Executive via your Council Executive Committee, requesting to use the Venturing logo.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

Brian,

Greetings again!

As you stated. I think the wheels are turning. Some of us believe the wheels have always been turning. The folks at national have been encouraged by our fellow Scouters for many years, not only since this Summer. An example, the Scoutzone webpage and video have been around for nearly two years, not just since savescouting.org.

Since there are some dedicates Scouter who have been working with youth for many years. And seeing since a long time volunteer, Roy Cronk, assumed President of the BSA in May at the National Convention. And you just attended Wood Badge this Summer and began your savescouting.org webpages during September in response to your Wood Badge ticket. Instead of saying Thankfully, the new President of BSA, shares my vision to "keep scouting relevant to the boys of today.". I would say that you share the same vision as President Roy Cronk.

If you have to give credit where credit is due. BSA President Roy Cronk said it four months before you did. (Unless I missed the Scouting Magazine article when you were interviewed.)

I didnt know we were taking a vote, as you pointed out.

I did state I believe all Scouters desire for every Scout to have a good experience. It seems that we have the same goal, not a divided vote. If you do want to take it to a vote, I would say we already do vote, every time we re-charter and submit a new application.

As for, creatively working together to change things for the better. It seems to me Scouting has been doing that. For years, fellow Scouters have recommended and submitted documented literature to Council, Regional, and National for the revisions of the handbooks, merit badge pamphlets, and training.

Creatively working is still working. Writing literature, revising handbooks, writing program helps training material.

I dont speak for everyone, but I would believe we all have similar views. Keeping Scouting relevant to youth today.

So Brian, sincerely, as our fellow Scouters in this Scouters.com forum posts their ideas and thoughts to this forum. I am still interested in reviewing your thoughts. But regarding, savescouting.org, (which is your site), please begin to post new program material, new literature, new merit badge pamphlets, new training material or actionable items. Savescouting is your website, but all I read are echoes of all the campfire discussions from the past.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Dan,

I have to agree with you.. When I read this post yesterday, the first thing I thought was....

Self, "What does this have to do with a neckerchief?"

On the other hand.. Good thing no one was injured making this video, I would hate to see someone fashioning a sling with an IPOD.

Brian,

Seriously though. I have occasionally reviewed your website, and even noticed for a while that you had a reply from the National office.

For many years (even before your webpage), I have heard fellow Scouters, sit around the campfire and discuss the pros and cons with the BSA program.

I believe all Scouters desire for every Scout to have a good experience. National continuously conducts survey and study groups, hires professional educators and recreational specialist. Meanwhile there are a few Scouters that participate in the literature revision and observe potentially new program updates with selected Packs and Troops before debuting these program updates national wide.

Coming to mind are the recent Cub Scout handbook revisions, even with Baloo and friends appearing more cartoonish and appealing. When I look at Boy's Life magazines, I see articles related to the monthly themes, also with cartoons, Scouts in Action, sports heroes, electronic GPS reviews and even electronic game reviews!!! Looking on the Boys Life cover, I usually see a Scout water skiing, white water rafting or rappelling. I hope they are not smiling for the camera (like the magazines in the check-out stands), but they are actually enjoying what they are doing.

While I don't think anyone fundamentally disagrees with you, Brian, about providing a program that the boys really do enjoy and will build character. Looking at the savescouting webpages, I still do not see any focus groups or any proposed revisions to the various program literature. Still, all I see are the same old complaints that I've heard around the campfire for many years. They are just residing on a webpage now.

Brian, please, recommend changes to the various Cub Scout, Boy Scout and Venturing handbooks, recommend new merit badges and the written pamphlet, recommend the style of uniform that would be appealing to all Scouts. Recommend a timeline or plan of action. Recommend new fitness, educational, and character building material. Recommend new corporate training material. Please hire a consultation study group, please provide reports on survey and sample groups with revised and recommended material.

Like the movies of potentially famous writers (or Orchestra directors like Mr Holland's Opus) that have permanent writer block and never finish that award winning novel. There is a statement put the pen to the paper. All I see are complaints; I don't see any products or program value on savescouting.org.

Brian, please, stop the same old fashion or traditional complaining and start writing the literature you would like to recommend.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Jeffrey and Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

Let me offer my opinion...

A Scouter should always call upon their UC for every issue. (With the exception of youth protection or similar highly sensitive topics)

Whether it is regarding finances, program, re-charter, discipline, recruitment, injuries, insurance, advancement, disruptions, crossover, disagreements, celebrations, there are many reasons. A good UC, will answer all the Scouters questions, and know when to defer to the District or Scout Executive.

It is much easier with email, I often reply and cc my DE. The DE will either Concur, not Concur; or yes rarely, clarify my explanation.

Via the phone, I will tell my fellow Scouters when I am the final topic authority; or when I am only an advisor and they are referred to the topic authority.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

LadyJay,

Greetings!

I'm sure you will receive a lot of replies for this posting. lol

It is unfortunate that your Scout nearly had a complete uniform, and was ready for inspection but was not chosen as a recipient of the prize. A parent and Scout leader can look at this situation from a few different approaches.

All the Scouts and their leaders should always be appropriately dressed for an inspection. (but this does not always occur) Incentives work in Scout, just as they do in the blue collar and white collar work force. It would be nice, if our Scouts are inspection ready just for the accomplishment and recognition alone. But hey, we would never have the old saying about carrot in front of the horse, if that were true. The adult which brought prizes had a good idea, however the outcome may not have been what they desired.

I have a Scoutmaster friend that occasionally adds excitement to the inspection. He sets all his Scouts against the walls of the meeting hall. Then brings a bowl of candy bars to the center of the room. He then calls out, Anyone wearing official BSA socks take one step forward, Anyone wearing an official BSA web or leather belt take another step forward With a lot of laughter he and the ASMs regulate who legitimately move closer to the candy bars. Ideally, those that are fully uniform, get their choice of the candy while those not quiet in uniform pick from the scraps.

The uniform inspection sheet, is a good tool and definitely should be used most of the time. It allows for an inspector to review the standards in writing and image (without memorizing or making up their own standards) and also, allows for assigning a numerical value to the best uniforms.

The SPL is the boy leader. And an Eagle Scout is trusted to always display character. But we all are still human and can make mistakes. Without going off on the SPLs authority, Lord Acton, in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton, 1887. 'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.' It is the job of the Scoutmaster to train the boy leaders within the Troop. It may be a recommendation to have three youth or three adults or three members (youth and adults) to conduct the inspection in the future, to remove the SPL as the sole judge of whom received the small toy or recognition item.

You asked, Is this common?

Well yes. Im not saying our Scouts are dogs, but like Pavlovs dog. Some troops do offer various types of incentives to encourage the Scouts to behave in a certain desirable manner. But dont most of us offer a reasonable allowance for school grades and chores at home?

You asked how can I get him to understand that although unfair that SPL did that, he should continue to do his best and wear his full uniform?

That is a difficult situation. How do you explain to your son, that life is unfair. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. Some of our Boy Scout training curriculum and sessions have gone to using movie clips or leasing movies for the training to drive a point home. (i.e. Apollo 13, Mr Hollands Opus, October Sky, Master and Commander: Far Side of the World) My offer would be to show him Charlie Brown on Wikipedia, and rent the DVD A Boy named Charlie Brown. A seasonal Christmas-time movie that drives home the same point home, Its a Wonderful Life.

You also asked what steps, if any, should I or my scout do to prevent future incidents like this from happening?

Well.. The quick answer is training. Troop Leadership Training and also New Youth Leadership Training. (in the NYLT there is a session on ethical choices, which would be nearly perfect for retraining the youth leadership on this situation).

For your specific Troop, you may attempt bringing inspection incentives that an entire patrol may enjoy, or maybe an incentive that the entire Troop may enjoy. That should remove the potential to choose just friends.

Staying on the topic of rewards and incentives. In the future, as your Scout becomes One of the older Scouts the Troop should possibly offer incentives. High Adventure Camp just for the 16-17 y/o, Summer Camp discount for the Troop Instructors, or Summer Camp Staff application endorsement.

Hope this helps!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

JW,

Greetings again!

Please don't take my earlier comment as a zinger. Just only meant it as a thought to consider. (Bringing up an old topic shouldn't hurt anyone, but sometimes it is like groaning at an old joke around the campfire...lol)

BTW... I haven't worn it years, but my Red Beret sits on the shelf by my Australian Scout Association "Aussie" hat.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

Since the original post of the question on Age Restrictions on Power Tools in 2002, the information on Scouting.org has come along way.

The Guide to Safe Scouting has been placed online (which just years ago was only in print), and the chart of Age Appropriate Guidelines for Scouting Activities has been changed a few times, and is also found online now.

My Venturers like to take a lot of risk (Gee, Go figure), so I am constantly reviewing these publications.

Please allow me to add a few comments...

Remember these are only guidelines. Inside of the GSS, the bold type font denotes BSA rules and policies. I interpret guidelines to be a path to follow; and if we deviate, we may get stung, hurt or even a lawsuit (Ouch!). Abide strictly by the rules, and follow the guidelines closely.

On the Age Appropriate Guidelines for Scouting Activities chart, it does seem vague... The color row bars seem to illustrate restricted activities, while the darkened row bars illustrate permitted activities. So, it seems to illustrate that Webelos should not use power tools, while Boy Scouts and Venturers may.

Finally.. Maybe you will get a chuckle from this....

Over the years, I've been rappelling and rafting, skiing and falling.

I recently spoke with an outdoor recreation manager, their shop was offering a new sport to me. "Canyoning". Imagine combining, rappelling thru a wind smoothed crevasse and white water rafting over class 5 rapids without the raft. It looks fun! But no way am I showing my Venturing Crew this video!

So now while reading this string, I look at the Age Appropriate chart and see "Bouldering".. I thought maybe this "Bouldering" and "Canyoning" are one in the same. (Silly me). So I look up bouldering in google and under wikipedia.

After I woke up off the floor, I thought "Are you kidding me??? We allow Cub Scouts to do this?!"

I just hope my Venturing Crew youth never look at the Age Appropriate Chart and find out what "Bouldering" is! lol

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

Back to haunt us?

These topics are scary sometimes, and some people are just dying to get in!!

Then again, Maybe we can dig up a few more!

Seriously...

JWMerica, Welcome to the forum, Thanks for reviving the Red Beret thread and bringing it back from the grave. lol

In my opinion and advise (offered if you want it), Every fellow Scouter has a lot to offer. There are years of Scouting and youth group experience on this scouter.com and other Scouting forum(s). (I cannot represent everyone, but your thoughts should be important and welcomed)

So, As you consider posting a response to a thread, take a look at the last time it was updated, and then determine if your comments are timely. They should be welcomed, but maybe a little late. (Like my mother-in-laws Christmas fruitcake, I received in January).

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Greetings Everyone,

I guess oldsm's question regarding BSA Neckties has already been answered... I dont want to hijack this thread, and without starting a new thread.. I have a simple question.

I think most topics here on this forum start of with. "I have heard..."

So......I have heard there is a (reasonable facsimile) spoof patch (position of responsibility or position three left sleeve) for the "Uniform Police".

I think it would be a worth a laugh to have one. Some of us get a kick out of throwing a rocking chair patrol or old goat patrol into our patch collection. I would like to add this UP patch, if it really exist.

Has anyone really seen this UP patch and where it can be purchased? Or is this another Scouting Urban Legend?

Cheers!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

Just to clarify...

Many of our posters to this forum continue to state that Venturing is the co-ed program.

This is partially true.

I am currently away from my Venturing Leaders Guide handbook, but this excerpt below is from the scouting.org Language of Scouting.

quote The membership policy of a Venturing crew is determined by the organization chartering the crew. The organization may determine whether its crew is to be coed, all male, or all female. (The majority of crews are coed.) It is recommended that coed crews have male and female adult leaders. endquote

Just as the Venturing program is confusing to some of our Scouters. Equally some of our Chartering Organizations would prefer all male or all female crews/ships.

I hope this clears up another fallacy of the mysterious Venturing program.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

This does sound like good news!

Previously in the National Supply Center catalog and the online scoutstuff.org site, there were VHS tapes related to the advancement program. I can appreciate that they were professionally made, but at nearly 20-25 dollars for a fifteen minute video per rank. Ouch! I'm not sure how many Pack and Troop libraries were filled with these videos.

It seems these same videos have been added to the National webpage, at least Tenderfoot thru First Class ranks, so they do help as a resource. I don't count on too many Scouts and Tenderfoots viewing them and I don't believe these short videos are capable of being downloaded. So the SM and ASMs need to view those clips and take some of the practices to the Troop meeting.

But with the good news NeilLup is sharing, hopefully we can bring a small portable DVD player to meetings and campouts. If nothing more than repetition of what their PL's and TG's have taught.

Regarding Venturing and SeaScouts, there is a pretty good Venturing Fast Start (for sale) on DVD, but it is now online at the National website. Also the Venturing recruiting VHS video "Hanging Out" (I haven't seen it on DVD, but it is online on a few Venturing unit websites) SeaScouting has an online video "Chart a Course for Life".

Beyond Seascouts, I would certainly be excited to see short videos demonstrating skills achievements in all five of the Bronze Awards, then Gold and Silver Awards. We may have to wait a while, but I'd expect videos such as these would stimulate a lot of thought with our Crews and Ships.

Hopefully what Neil has said is correct, and these DVDs are going to all SMs (and not just a council base program)!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

CNY,

WOW!

Sounds like I'm having deja' vu'.

I have shared in your struggles. While working with the Troop and Crew, I've seen both sides of getting through. Unfortunately, I don't have any magic answers, but let me share my experiences.

In the Troop we hold semi annual elections. I have seen 16-17 y/o SPL's in our PLCs, need to be guided thru the meeting, while the scribe drew pictures of Japanese anime'. Only to see the SPL and the PL's come to the weekly meetings without their written plans and no idea of what the Troop meeting will be about. On the other side of the coin, still with little adult association, I've seen SPL's inform their PL's to bring skills and inter-patrol game equipment, and attend a weekly meeting with a fairly good meeting plan. Not 100 percent, but pretty darn good.

Equally in the Crew, we hold elections annually. I've had Crew Presidents, that was so passive and said okay to everything. A good young person, but no leadership skills, and could never write a plan or delegate a plan. Meanwhile, I've had another Crew President that does some delegation and brings somewhat of a plan (which match some of the program achievements in the Venturing handbook).

How the SPL or Crew President acts when they assume office, seems to be personality based. (even after training and adult association). I believe everyone here on the forum has heard, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".

For my crew officers, I constantly remind them, it is their Crew. Within my crew, we have an agreement... I usually say to them "The more you plan, the less I plan. The more you speak, the less I speak" If they desire less adult association and to lead on their own, the have to take the leadership from me, which I am more than happy to give it up.

Does this work? Well sometimes.... It depends on their personality and if they are really challenged to take leadership, plan and communicate.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

SMINCZ,

Greetings and welcome to the forum!

I certainly wish I could join you! (Maybe you could answer my question about the Cayuco Race thru the canal, which I posted this past Summer. I'd sure love to take my Venturing Crew to compete.)

Although never being in the Direct Service Council. With my job, my boys have fairly much grown up in some overseas councils. I was a Den Leader in the previous Panama Canal Council many years ago.

I was only hoping that when you said single-digit latitude, you meant Singapore from the Far East Council. I believe we have another BSA Scout leader in this forum which post ocassionally from their latitude. lol

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Kraut-60 and Fellow Scouters,

Regarding the Wood Badge patrol emblems on the adult Scouters shirts.

For the Wood Badge for Boy Scout Leaders (75-99) The participants were to prepare two complete uniforms, dressed as a youth Scout. Sometimes their WB patrol emblem would be included in the welcoming letter mail. I remember sewing mine on day one within the first five minutes, part of our STA's, Ouch!

Since the Wood Badge for the 21st Century, participants are placed into Dens, and then Patrols. The most recent revision (2005 ed) allows them to stay in a den until after lunch. Since these new editions have been written, participants are no longer required to sew on any patches or patrol emblems.

So, Wood Badgers still wearing their patrol emblems, would probably have attended prior to 2000.

As for any Wood Badgers having taken the WB for the 21st Century, which are wearing their patrol emblem; well, their WB Scoutmaster may be adding requirements and over-stepping their WB Scoutmaster pledge.

Ive been disappointed when hearing WB Scoutmasters say, We are exactly by the book! Except for this and that. and this. Well I guess they are not exactly by the book then. But that should be another topic.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Wiggs,

Greetings!

I do not have my advancement manual with me currently, but below is a direct quote from the Eagle Service Project Workbook, the paragraph titled Limitations. It does not say anything about non-profit status. It does state that the project cannot be conducted for a business.

I recently had a Life to Eagle Scout candidate, whom submitted a Eagle Scout Service Project which was on a razor thin line description. The benefactor was a business, but all proceeds beyond operating cost (again all proceeds), went directly back into our community.

I would expect that there are many organizations that are applying for tax exemption. The project workbook would have to pass the review of the Scoutmaster, A unit committee member, and the Council (or delegated District) Advancement Chair.

My question is. Does the profit go to the owners and management of the farm? If they are marketing towards handicapped therapy, Does the farm make enough profit to install stairs and aids themselves? Questions like these should be the deciding factor for the committee and the Council/District Advancement Chair.

...On a totally unrelated story, but I'd like to tell it anyways. Years ago my young sons cried that they wanted a puppy. We drove down to the local puppy farm. Nothing but mutts they were passing off as purebred (it was hilarious). Anyway, every time I said "puppy farm" the lady farm owner kept saying "we are an animal rescue shelter!". I laughed for days, and we definitely did not get a dog from them. I guess they hung that title on their non-profit documentation....

Limitations

Routine labor (a job or service normally rendered) should not be considered. Work involving council property or other BSA activity is not permitted. The project also may not be performed for a business or an individual, be of a commercial nature, or be a fund-raiser. (Fund-raising is permitted only for securing materials or supplies needed to carry out your project.)

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Greetings Fellow Scouters,

Again if I can offer a few opinions.

Brian asked the question if Lord Baden Powell lived in the current era, and started the Scouting Program today. Not a very close comparison, but BP was an icon for the time, similar to just a couple of current icons, Stan Lee of Marvel Comics or NBAs Michael Jordan, (there are more of course). That is why BP was heard.

Recently, I sat an Eagle Board of Review. I usually dialogue with the candidate, and offer my response after their answer. One of my questions was, why did Lord Baden Powell begin Scouting? And lets not leave it all up to Baden Powell, but the rest of our Legacy, William Boyce, Ernest T Seton, and Daniel Carter Beard.

In economics class we find there is supply and demand. In history we find there is a cause and effect (also in physics). In ethics we usually find there is a need and a resolution.

In 1900, there was a need to build character and citizenship and physical fitness in youth. Why, because many British youth (and youth worldwide) were lacking in character. (Sorry Eamonn) With the industrial revolution and economic changes, parents were working longer hours in the factories, school truancy was on the rise, and street urchins or runaways were often on the streets of London (New York, Chicago and many large capitols around the world, even today) left to fend for themselves. Probably an ugly history, but there was a need to build character. The solution, there were many offers, military schools, boarding schools, state orphanages, to include the new Scouting, Woodcraft Indians, and Sons of Daniel Boone. Other countries seemed to enjoy similar solutions, to resolve nearly identical needs, and Scouting swept the world. Scouting never promised to save the world, but for nearly 100 years, it has improved character and citizenship and has had a positive impact worldwide.

My next EBOR question(s). Do we have those same needs today? To build character and citizenship, in youth? Does Scouting do that? With some dialogue with the candidate the answer is always, yes, Scouting still brings some resolution to building character and citizenship.

Regarding Merit Badges, As I said before, with safety being in mind. I would expect more adventurous and attractive merit badge being added yearly, after ensuring the merit badge is safe. Brianbuf, you commented about rollerblading, if you took a look at Skating Merit Badge requirements pamphlets, you should find the BSA allows inline skating (it is just not called rollerblading as you stated). As far as gaming merit badge, other than hand eye coordination, I do not see much value added to building character, citizenship or physical fitness.

Regarding Scouting in other countries. There are some Scouting programs with Merit Badges/Proficiency Badges and Ranks. Nearly all of these merit badges solve the need of introduction to physical fitness (sports and recreational hobbies), or introduction into possible career paths. However, in some other countries and Scouting programs they offer only an outdoors program with only two recognitions, usually along the lines of beginner camper and Pathfinder or experienced camper. Many times their ranks are recognized by the colors of their neckerchiefs. Having said that, while Brians limited surveys seem to illustrate the neckerchiefs are old fashioned. In other countries, they proudly wear their neckerchiefs, to demonstrate their proficiency and ranking in their program. No kidding, you will see more neckerchiefs in the various international Scouting programs, than in the BSA. Not every country, but I would definitely say those with neckerchiefs are very proud of their status being worn around their neck and on top of their shirt. They will wear the neckerchief with uniform shirt, T-shirt or long-sleeve sweatshirt.

Regarding uniforms. I have met Scouts around the world, some uniforms are very comparable to the BSA uniforms, some uniforms are very awkward and IMHO tacky (making BSA uniforms very appealing), and some are very simple and effective. I admire the Australian Scouts Associations uniforms, dark blue uniform shirts, with their program level on their shoulders, and just a few patches placed only on their sleeves. (hmmm, Maybe I should join the ASA, just so I can wear their uniform.) In nearly all Scouting programs world wide you will find uniforms. IHMO our BSA uniforms are effective, especially for ceremonies and special events. Maybe even bring back our red berets. Even the French Scouts still wear their berets. But I dont see a reason for an immediate and dramatic change to our BSA uniforms.

Regarding patrols. I feel the old saying is true, Too many cooks spoil the broth. At work I have walked away from large committees and large work groups. Granted a small work committee should work so solve the needs of the customer. But when some work resolutions get bogged down in debate, during large committee meetings and never solve a need; I feel like I should quit work and run for the U.S. Congress. (jokingly) Whoever thought of this Den and Patrol method is a downright genius!! They should teach his methods at conventions and seminars from New York to Los Angeles!! The Patrol method is the cutting edge of youth leadership.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

Kraut-60,

Greetings!

The idea of a uniform awareness presentation does sound like a good idea. I would say that most errors in uniforming are caused by simply being uneducated. Very few Scouts (their parents) and Scouters break the uniform decorum purposely. Quiet often it is the parent that does not know where to sew patches (even though the shirts are now being sold with a uniform example on the tag). I have to bite my tongue, especially when I see Bobcat thru Webelos Ranks patches pinned to the pocket flap with the Mothers Pin, month after month after month.

Some items change over the years, I was looking at EMB's comment about the World Crest. An older uniform inspection sheet had the Boy Scouts and Scouters wearing the World Crest centered between the left pocket and shoulder seam, while the Cub Scouts wore it three inches above the left pocket. Now the Cub Scout has the Crest centered between the pocket and seam (like the Scouts and Scouters). I remember a long heated argument where we broke out the book and three inspection sheets, just to learn there was a difference (now since corrected).

Another significant change. Years ago the Green and Khaki uniform was brought down to the Webelos. I was told it prepared them for Boy Scouting by having the uniform already, it was also a recruiting tool for retention in the program. (I am critical of Scouts that never wear their uniform, due to their parents refusing to purchase another uniform for their 15 y/o, because he cant fit into the extra-small khaki shirt they purchased when he was 9 y/o. But that is my own opinion). In the Webelos and Webelos Leaders handbooks, it previously stated that the uniform style was the decision of the den. (So the entire Den would have to dress in either blue or green/khaki). In recent editions, the change was very smart. It changed from the decision of the den, to the decision of the family. 9 11 year old boys go thru various growth spurts. Some Webelos (and families) may desire to stay in blues throughout. Some Webelos may grow tremendously and need a new shirt (probably khaki) during their first Webelos year. But changing to the decision of the family was very, very smart.

You referenced Leader Specific Training. In the recent Cub Scout Leader Specific breakouts there is a game where the learners place paper/cardboard patches on a paper/cardboard uniform shirt. EMB has commented earlier about the cut out version of this example. It is part of the actual Cub Scout Specific curriculum, but not the Boy Scout Specific or Venturing Specific. I have assembled a kit of old shirts and patches in a few zip lock bags, so I can lay the shirt on the table, and allow the learners to place the patches onto the shirt in the appropriate location. Before or after this session, a Uniform Guide may be too much for handouts, but the four Uniform Inspection Sheets come in bundles and may be perfect for handing out to the entire class.

This kind of audience participation should lead to a win-win situation. As far as a skit, it would be difficult to have a positive experience. (not saying it can't be done) Such as, a correctly uniformed Scout or Leader may gain more respect in a sharp uniform, but I would hesitate to dress in a sloppy or mis-matched uniform to demonstrate a bad example. Maybe an old Gypsy woman (palm reader) that can tell where a boy has been and where he is going by looking at his uniform, could be a thought. Maybe ending with handing out business cards of a Gypsy Seamstress (usually found in many towns) where they will sew on patches for a reasonable price. (Yes, you may call this endorsing a business, but this is meant for those parents that don't sew!)

To me, that would be the most value added. First, having a paper that showed me where the patches go, and second, having a seamstress that will sew the patches in the correct place for the right price.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Kudu,

Greetings!

I think there may be a few members of this forum that may share similar backgrounds as mine, so allow me to describe a little of my background first. I am a family man, parent, Scouter (Troop ASM and Crew Advisor), retired military, a local American Legion Post Commander, member of the local VFW post, and a few other military veterans associations. My sons are both Boy Scouts, Venturers and Sons of the American Legion.

The American Legion and Sons of the American Legion (like many other Community Base Organizations) have held long time bonds with the BSA. They(we) find Scouting programs to have very similar views in education, character building, and citizenship development.

Each military veteran has their own political views (what ever they may be). However, membership in the Legion usually adds to the numbers that lobby congress for veterans rights and veterans benefits. Various items provide by law via the Veterans Administration such as the VA hospitals and clinics, VA home loans, and the VA GI Education Bills, are items that the various veterans groups have urged congress to vote in favor of.

As the average age of the Veteran groups grows older, their average childrens age is mid 20's to mid 40's even. (Similar to the shifting baby boom population bubble/bell curve) Equally, our most recent veterans are returning from Iraq, Afghanistan and the Middle East. The veterans organizations are attempting to satisfy the needs, education and family oriented support of a younger veteran population.

As I said, Legion and Scouting (like other chartering organizations) have had a long bond, thru years of Chartering Organization across America. The American Legion has even had a information booth at the Relationship Expo Tent during National Jamboree. The American Legion, SAL, and other veterans organizations now welcoming younger military veterans have revived their interest and commitment to Scouting.

All clubs and organizations have recognitions for maintaining a quality status quo. They are awarded points for advancement, education, safety and membership just to mention a few criteria. As Boy Scouts, we call it Quality Unit, but you can find this same "measuring stick" in nearly every club. The American Legion and Sons of the American Legion not being any different, also award points for membership.

Now... After saying all that. I've been involved in various Scout Troops and Legion Posts and local churches over my military career. I've always been a big critic of "informal adoptions" or people saying "our Scouts". Either you are the Chartering Organization or not. Any thing else provided to a Troop would be considered a donation and not a "quid pro quo". I've even told church pastors and youth pastors, "we are not "your Scouts" unless you are willing to sign a charter agreement!"

What I highly recommend is the SAL in your neighborhood meet with the local DE, and become an actual Chartering Organization for a new Troop or Troop relocating to a new Chartering Organization. Personally, for those youth that are eligible, I would encourage membership in the SAL, but I would discourage dual membership being a criteria to join the Troop.

As Kudu described, it sounds like the stepfather of a Scout, does not understand what the functions of a chartering organization is. No big deal, he would just need to be explained the Chartering Organization process.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

Here are the SAL joining criteria.

Not everyone is eligible to become a member of the Sons of The American Legion. There are specific membership requirements.

To be eligible, you must be a male descendant (includes stepsons and adopted sons) of a member of The American Legion.

You would also be eligible to join the Sons of The American Legion if you are the male descendant (stepsons and adopted sons included) of a veteran who died in service during World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, or the Persian Gulf War (see specific time periods for service during these conflicts).

You would also be eligible to join the Sons of The American Legion if you are the male descendant (stepsons and adopted sons included) of a veteran who died subsequent to his or her honorable discharge from service in World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, or the Persian Gulf War