Crew21_Adv

ghermanno and Fellow Scouts,

Overseas military bases and military brats are a small slice of America. The bases have youth sports, youth programs, before and after school programs, Boys and Girls Club. Events that can keep them so busy, they wouldn't even have time for school work or home work.

Similar to some remote military bases overseas, the majority of young boys in the United States probably do not know of Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts. For the majority of those that do learn about Scouting from TV advertisements or even from a friend. Their parents have to be willing to drive and take them to meetings.

The professional BSA and even local Council/District advertisements are usually aimed at two audiences. An image of fun things for the youth, and details about learning, education, self-image, and independence to the parents.

The Scout age parents are probably the biggest target of advertising.

You can imagine how busy the average american family is now days, the same goes for senior enlisted and senior officers in overseas communities. Early arrival to work, late business phone calls (from Korea to Washington DC), and a blackberry on your hip at all times. Cub Scout Packs and Boy Scout Troops (as well as GSUSA) need to appeal to the busy parents, informing them that its worth taking time out to bring their son to Scouting.

That is where the real amount of adverstising should be targeted towards.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

ghermanno and Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

There are a few excellent PSA on the Scouting.org website. Most of these can also be viewed by their same titles on youtube.com as well.

http://www.scouting.org/Media/Multimedia/PSA.aspx

Within the continental US, cable providers must allow local shows on affordable channels. Sometimes, BSA, GSUSA, and other youth and non-profit organization PSA's show up on local cable access channels as a gap-filler.

AFRTS/AFN has to abide by many federal laws. They have even removed certain locally created safety videos, don't drink and drive videos, and etc due to copyright liability playing popular music without purchasing royalties. I expect it would take time and many repeated request for AFN headquarters to place it on their feed.

Rarely, Some other non-profit organizations have been able to display their advertisements on AFN, such as a recent Veterans of Foreign War membership commercial, which rarely appears on AFN. So that proves it is possible. Just how long it takes, and getting thru the approval phase would be the big question. (I'm still waiting on the American Legion ad to show up, now that the VFW is rarely on AFN..lol)

Now.. Much easier than getting these National BSA Public Service Announcements to run on AFN Satellite, is to submit your local Press Releases to the AFN Seoul stating when, date, time, etc of the next camporee, School Night for Scouting, Pinewood Derby, Christmas Tree Sales, Popcorn Drive, etc. AFN news certainly enjoys seeing Scouts in action in their local community. Also, AFN radio will usually run these Scouting event press releases "advertisements" during the morning and afternoon commutes to the nearby bases. AFN radio will give you lots of advertisement; as for the AFN TV, their is the "AFN Reports" news. First, they want the military community to know what is happening to OEF/OIF deployments, as well as military events in the local community. Unfortunately, if nothing else as exciting in the community, then they will send a news crew and camera to the Scouting events.

Probably the two even better locations to advertise PSA than AFN. If you local DODDS/DODEA school has CCTV morning news, they may run the PSA during the rolling credits at the end of the morning school news. Also at many of the military bases would be the Officers and Enlisted Spouses clubs (believe it or not, they even have yahoo groups, my spaces, face book, etc. In addition to answering many community based questions, do's and don't's in the overseas community, where the shopping is at, best Far East vacations, these ladies (and sometimes men) advertise home based business and non-profit organization events. They will easily get the word out, and sometimes yield a larger attendance at School Night for Scouting or Scout Round-ups.

Good Luck!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

gwd-scouter and Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

I concur with GW, acco, and Fscouter previous statements.

I too have asked this same question (as well as other fellow Scouters on this forum), and also I've answered this similar question to friends and to parents of Eagle Scout candidates.

If you take a look at the Eagle Scout Rank Application 58-728, the EBOR chairman is the first signature on Requirement seven. The next signature is the Council/District Representative (if available), but the final required signature is the Scout Executive. After that final signature is a box, Eagle Scout Service Validation, which is stamped by national.

I have been told the Eagle Scout rank is not approved by National it is validated and processed, after the Council Scout Executive signature.

Even after the EBOR there is at least one more signature, I doubt the Council Scout Executive will be sitting on the Eagle Board of Review.

In each council, there is a council registrar. For years they have handled the Advancement reports, for Cub Scout ranks, Boy Scout merit badges and Boy Scout ranks. Since 2000, they have been using ScoutNet 2000, entering advancement data into a database at national.

Now, Scoutnet2000, has taken the processing of the Eagle Scout Rank Application from a 3-4 week long process down to 24-48 hours. The eagerly awaited answer may be back to the candidate and family within three days.

I have been told that council registrars, will enter the Eagle Rank into the Scoutnet, after the Council Scout Executive signature and prior to the application being mailed to National.

I have stated to friends, that they may "title" their Scout an Eagle Scout after the Scout Executive has signed the application (the Scout council office staff can state when it is signed). But the official date is after national verification.

gwd-scouter asked

So what is the real answer? Can a Scout wear the Eagle Patch before his approval from National, or does he have to wait?

The real answer is on the bottom of the rank application.

"Presentation of the rank may not be made until the Eagle Scout credentials are received by the BSA local council."

That being said, some councils will allow the title "Eagle Scout" to be used, after the SE has signed. Pending the validation and processing of the application. However, the rank patch should not be worn until council has received the reply from national.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

vcrew66,

Greetings!

I'd expect that this young man was removed by the Venturing Crew Committee. That is a decision of the unit. Not the decision of the district or council.

I would also expect that a district and council would be appreciative of the information. But I would expect them to act on fact, not allegations or emotions. An allegation is a statement of a fact by a party in a pleading, which the party claims it will prove. Allegations remain assertions without proof, until they are proved.

"How can this be allowed to continue?"

Your District Commissioner and District Executive need to separate was is legal from what is emotion. They need to act on what is a legal non-abidance with YPT and G2SS. The should listen, but not necessarily act on what is emotional confidential information. Probably what a judge or lawyer may call "hearsay".

As you stated "what is right - is right".

The girl's parents who were involved did not want to press charges, and therefore no "sound evidence" was found."

I am neither a lawyer or judge, but I have seen, heard and dealt with similar difference events in the BSA. Legally. The youth has apparently not violated any G2SS or YPT.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

uz2bnowl,

The position of a Scout leader is not the easiest. The Scoutmaster, the Committee Chair, and the advancement chair probably have the most difficult decisions.

I concur with your committees actions. It sounds like your committee did correct by the Star Scout "Smith", counseled him, and given him the final opportunity to finish his trail to Eagle.

If your board of review members had decided that Star Scout "Smith" would not currently be recommended for advancement to Life Scout. I expect most forum members and your councils advancement chair would equally accept (although possibly disappointed) a negative decision. It was the Scout who had lied, and had broken the Scout Law, immediately before the SMC and BOR. While a lack of good judgment and morals, has the Scout learned from his error within only 24 hours? Once again, it may be the Star Scout's actions that caused him not to complete the trail, not the committee's actions.

Within the last hour, I have withheld an Eagle Scout Application signature (from a Life Scout parent, the Scout was not even present) due to a minor error and a missed step. Our Troop is attempting to do right by the Scout, but in accordance with the Advancement Guidelines and Eagle Scout Application. The Committee has bent over backwards for this young adult, encouraging him to complete a service project since he made Life (four years ago). After years of encouraging our most recent candidate, he decides to do a service project, application, and EBOR in less that 45 days.

Similarly, if our troop's current candidate earns Eagle in the next 30 days, its because of him meeting the most basic requirements, and everyone else's hard work. If he does not attain Eagle Scout, it would be due to him not completing each step and procedure.

Regarding Star Scout "Smith", what would I have done?

Probably the exact same actions as yourself, your Scoutmsater and BOR.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Mr Boyce and Fellow Scouters,

I had to ponder this question for a few days.

Then I considered, for myself, there would be two true answers.

A noble answer and an honest answer.

So the honest answer first.

I participate in Scouting for myself. Scouting and Venturing is a hoot! I would like to (state a little white lie) say that I brought a lot to Scouting, but in fact I have learned much more.

I have met many, many, many good friends. I've been to camps, rappelled, snorkeled, hiked, shot, climbed (and fallen), slide, frozen, sweat, and learned many new skills. etc, etc.

Mr Boyce asked,

Why are you Adults Doing This?

I am doing this for me.

So after my selfish rant.

My noble (and still true) answer. I am doing this for my own boys, and my friend's sons. Hopefully, they all get a kick out of Scouting like I do. Hopefully they too will buy into it, and take something home from Scouting.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

BrotherhoodWWW and Fellow Arrowmen,

Greetings!

True. I have to agree with you. Some may enjoy the changes from National, either OA, or with advancement in Boy Scouting, Cub Scouting or Venturing. Others may not enjoy changes as much. Each Scouter's opinion is based on the positive and sometimes negative trends we all have seen.

I myself, would certainly like to see the Order of the Arrow, as well as the Boy Scouts and troops thrive and benefit, whichever avenue our BSA takes. Regardless if I personally agree with National Policy, policy changes.

Hopefully our National professionals and National Committees, will continue to identify ways to enhance the BSA overall.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters and Arrowmen,

Greetings again!

We do talk about the Scoutmaster being the gatekeeper, here in the forum. And it is difficult to make a blanket statement. But it is often the Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmasters that attend all the Troop meetings, campouts, and unit events.

Although the parents are aware of many of our Scouts, and even a few volunteer to drive or even camp, not all the parents know all the Scouts. My own Troop has probably around 100 parents. But we only have one Scoutmaster and three ASMs. My point, its not the 100 parents that determine the definition of what Scout Spirit is. That is defined the Boy Scout Handbook and the Scoutmaster Handbook. Its up to one Scoutmaster to determine if a First Class Scout (or above) is eligible to become an Arrowman.

Confusion on election procedures (by the individual Scouts) and popularity are disappointing areas.

A few of us can empathize, its disappointing to a parent and youth; but still I trust the Scoutmaster and the OA election team to run an election correctly.

How can I empathize? Here is a personal story. (My oldest son, a summer camp staffer, attended JLTC, staffed NYLT, attended NSJ, and a Venturer, was finally elected when he was a Life Scout. For four years, he (and other Scouts) was elegible and nominated between First Class thru Life Scout.

After he finally was elected, he went on to become Chapter Chief, he was nominated to Lodge Chief but he declined the nomination due to travel commitments. Unfortunately, year after year the troop election result numbers year after would produce only one or two elected Ordeal members out of fifteen eligible candidates. Most of those eligible Scouts were never elected into the OA, but it was their fellow Scouts whom never elected them. Not the Scoutmaster nor the OA election teams.

Personally disappointing, yes. Were the elections done correctly?, yes. Did the Scoutmaster and OA election team do their jobs correctly?, yes.)

To BrotherhoodWWW. I certainly agree, drastic measures. Take it only as a comment or opinion. But would it lessen the honor?

The OA Guide for Officers and Advisors was a limited distribution publication years ago, now it is readily available on the www.oa-bsa.org webpage.

As I recall, National OA Committee did drastically change the election procedures in the late 90's. Previously OA only wanted what could be called, "the cream of the crop" or "the best of the best". The OA election procedures would previously only accepted the top half of those elected, the numerical bottom half of those exceeding 50 percent of votes elected would not receive Ordeal invitation. The previous procedures limited the amount of potential arrowmen.

Honestly, I do not recall the exact wording, but many Arrowmen felt the procedural changes from the late 90's lessened the honor of becoming an Arrowman.

Similar to the National Boy Scout Advancement Committee and National Boy Scout Division removing the time limitations between Scout thru First Class. The 90's election procedures (considered drastic at the time) was a positive move for our brotherhood.

My bottom line is..

Limiting potential great Scouts from becoming Arrowmen seems to be on the individual Scout in the troop.

To counter any election confusion, unethical popularity, favoritism, Could there be anyway that our National OA committee allow even more hard working, positively motivated, cheerful, friendly Scouts which constantly demonstrate Scout Spirit?

Could National OA committee look at any future procedures that will allow some great Scouts to become Arrowmen, while not lessening the honor?

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

I think knots are a cool way of recognizing Scouting adults for their work with Scouts, specifically the working class Scouter, immediately working as a direct unit Scout leader.

I read about a new PTC knot. I can understand the purpose of knots, and I personally like knots. Mrs Crew21_Adv calls me a Mexican Field General (apologies to any Mexican military officers or our hispanic Scouts, which may be offended) I really don't understand why a PTC knot though, when there is a temporary pocket patch for attending PTC. Also the Philmont Arrowhead patch and the Philmont Bull. Even the Philmont belt and buckle. They demonstrate participation and completion.

Heck, I admit it, I am jealous at seeing friends sport the Philmont Arrowhead patch on their shirt pocket, and wish I had one myself. I jokingly give my current Scoutmaster a hard time. He got to be a Philmont Ranger during his college summer break. How cool is that?! I wish I had that opportunity years ago, and his Philmont patches.

FireKat had asked

Has natl gone into the world of money means more than anything else?

What happened to its for the boys??

Lastly, why does a quality council, unit, district be directly related to numbers or money? How does that help the individual boy?

Has natl gone into the world of money means more than anything else?

No. But money is important. Without Finances, we wouldn't have a BSA. Same way as, if I didn't tithe at church the doors would close. Same as, if no one paid state taxes, the roads would completely wither away and the teachers would quit teaching. We simply need finances to maintain a BSA.

Same with many other countries Scouting organizations.

What happened to "it's for the boys"??

I believe it still is. And, training certainly helps. I know many trainers and unit Scouters, that attempt to make training as affordable as possible, while delivering a quality product. Going as far as seeking grants and donations to offset individual cost.

Lastly, why does a quality council, unit, district be directly related to numbers or money? How does that help the individual boy?

If there was no numbers or money, there would be no DE, no SE, no paraprofessional, no Scout store, no Summer Camp, no Day Camp, probably no Camporees.

Without finances, All of our advancement, tour permits, program helps, everything would come out of National. If anything at all.

How does money help the individual boy? It helps to bring the program closer to the boy. Expedites paperwork. Allows for local Scouting events in the community. At least I believe it helps.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters and Arrowmen,

Greetings!

John in KC asked,

How does your Troop work to make sure that OA candidacy is not a popularity contest?

How do your E-teams and Lodge Leadership work to ensure Ordeal Candidacy is about the 3 ethics espoused by WWW???

That answer seems simple. The Troop PLC and Troop adult leadership, and the same with the E-teams and Lodge Leadership, follow the election procedures in the manual and show the recent OA election video. If they do that, they are all working to uphold Ordeal Candidacy and prevent a landslide based solely on popularity.

I would praise our youth/adult leadership that guides the troop, and the chiefs/advisors in Lodge (and Chapters) and say they do a pretty good job.

Popularity is a good thing, if managed right. Popularly elected because you are athletic or humorous. That is good. Popularly elected because you participate in every campout and even do KP. That is good. Popularly elected because you meet the minimum standards, and they are the fun Scout at camp. This too is a good thing.

Popularly elected because you can fight, regularly beat up on the new Scouts and can creatively use foul curse language. This is not the popularity I desire.

A few years ago, approximately 98-99, the National OA Committee changed the OA Election procedure from allowing only the top half of those exceeding fifty percent of the vote, to allowing all those exceeding fifty percent of the vote.

Before this election procedure change, there were many, many deserving Scouts that were not completely being elected into the OA.

Still there are Scouts that are deserving, but not being elected. (Although not as numerous Scouts in the 70s, 80s, 90s under previous procedures.)

A better question may be.

Could the National OA Committee do anything to better allow those deserving Scout to be allowed into the OA? (Like changing the OA election procedures again, like they changed in the 90's).

Maybe in the future, those nominated by their Scoutmaster, but not exceeding the popular election, could attend an OA'ish Board of Review.

Maybe a committee of Arrowman, Chiefs and Advisors could determine if a hardworking, cheerful worthy Scout, while not elected, is still worthy of becoming an Arrowman.

I feel that our goal should not be to prevent popularity, but our goal should be seeing that worthy Scouts do become tomorrows Arrowmen. If that necessitates changing National OA policy.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Eagle Foot,

Greetings!

What's the scoop?

IMHO. It is not mandatory for all leaders to be YPT (although they should be).

and YPT is valid for only two years since the date trained.

John in KC has given you a good answer. Now for my story.

For our District newsletter and to resolved questions and debates in my own district. I had asked similar YPT questions a few months back. Similar to the statement "trust but verify", I even put it to my DE asking for certain proof (of the renewal periodicity). My DE gave me very good statements and explanations, but could not produce anything in writing.

To date, I have not found anything making it mandatory for all leaders (such as committee members). Finally, I found a written statement about the YPT certificate expiration.

It is mandatory for tour permits, to serve on most staff positions, to attend certain national and regional functions, and to earn the Centennial Award. Otherwise these permits, and event applications will be revoked.

Regarding the YPT renewal periodicity. I looked over the YPT syllabus and as much of nation publications that I could find. My DE states he was part of the Northeastern Region YPT implimentation team, and that the periodicity was every two years, but he could find nothing in writing. Many of the videos recommended every two years. But this was a recommendation, not a mandate. I have heard two years, three years, four years, and five years, but they were all recommendations.

After searching and searching. I could not find an expiration date of the YPT. Alot of recommendations, alot of mandatory requirments from various councils and district. But I never could find a YPT expiration date from national. I trusted that it could be every two years, but I just could not verify it and settle many disputes between many fellow Scouters.

Now, Finally, since our National BSA headquarters has been upgrading Scouting.org has the Online Learning Center. The online YPT which Karen and John have referred to, does print off a YPT certification card, and updates the individual Scouters training profile in Scoutnet2000.

Finally for the first time, I have found that the YPT training certification card which prints after completing the YPT online states it is valid for 2 years from training. Whew! My search is finally over. I have finally found a National source, stating that YPT certification is valid for two years.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

T78Scoutmaster,

Greetings!

Seems like we had a similar problem in Florida about four years ago.

When we are dealing with Scout and youth between 10.5 and 17 years old, most of them being on the younger side. I don't think we will ever fully resolved the "misunderstanding" of election procedures.

Most elections I have assisted with, I suspect there has been a misunderstanding, no matter how well procedures were explained. Some 15/16 year old Scouts believe the election is based on who is cool, not necessarily who is deserving. Some 11 year old Scouts believe there can only be one elected arrowman out of all the candidates, and only submit one single name.

The National OA Committee has made a few videos, as you mentioned, which fully explain the procedures. In the Guide for Officers and Advisors, the procedures are described very thoroughly.

Even after "by the book" election meetings, I have walked away from a few OA elections, disappointed with the outcome and scratching my head wondering "what happened?".

Regarding your recent T78 election, to myself, it sounds like the Summer Camp OA rep correctly conducted the OA election, and the Chapter and Lodge Chiefs and Advisors will accept the results as they stand. Specifically when the Scouts have viewed the video, the OA election team have correctly done their job.

"Is there really nothing that can be done at this point?"

My opinion. No, Nothing more can really be done.

If I were the Lodge Advisor, I would overturn election results if they were not conducted properly. But it appears that the procedures were followed correctly. You can certainly protest. But I doubt the Lodge Chief or Lodge Advisor would overturn the election results.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

I concur with NielLup and as with my previous statement in this string; it seems some Scouters misinterpret their council's intentions. Then rumors run wild.

As it snowballs the minimum basic training somehow gets hooked onto other rumored statements, such as "not allowed to recharter".

As a naive parent. I would hope at the least that all my son's leaders have attended some sort of youth protection training, and safe programs training at the waterfront, in the woods and on the interstate. Also I would hope they know how to enter the minimum amount of program/advancement documentation into my son's handbook and forward to council.

As a Scout leader. I would hope my fellow Scouters are Faststart, YPT, TCC, NLE, Specifics, BALOO, OWLS, NLE, TLT, VLSC, SSD/SA, Woodbadge, Powderhorn, Commissioner, National Camping School.... etc, etc. All of these to deliver a high quality program.

As a Scout Leader, I would have high hopes for my unit leader's training, But I expect them to meet at least the minimum.

Similar to NeilLup. I believe some of our fellow Scouters, have taken national's and even their own council's desire for a higher level of current and quality training to be synonymous with the minimum training stated in the centennial award. Some of our fellow Scouters have taken a vague desire from their council, and have quoted it and attributed to be a written mandate from national. I agree, there is a difference between retraining to be considered trained and Mandatory training.

I appreciate the desire for a highly trained adult staff. But I am comfortable with adult leadership and troop committee that understand safety.

For now. Ill interpret the Centennial Quality Award Program Commitment and Achievement Form as what training is required.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Amandeux2,

Greetings!

Bobwhite pretty much summed it up.

There is no BSA literature on any annual ticket. Some councils use this practice to continue to ask Scouters to give back. Usually thru District or Council service. (camporee program director, counselors, event managers or specific projects). As Bobwhite said, "this is not the end of your learning but a beginning.", it is a genius way for councils to request Wood Badge Scouters to continue their service to their unit, district, or council.

Sometimes the annual ticket is front-line Scouting where you may serve many Scouts. And yet sometimes behind the lines, where you are serving the council i.e. heavy construction at the Summer Camp facility which will ultimately benefit the youth.

One council where I served, they had a "Silver Spade" Award, which hung in the Council Office and the Training Committee would add an additional brass plate each year. Only Wood Badge recepients who wrote an annual ticket item would be considered for the Silver Spade Award.

If you enjoy the idea of an annual ticket. Of course, complete your Wood Badge ticket first, and earn your beads. Then discuss with your counselor or course director, how you may further serve the Scouts in your Council.

Good Luck!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Insane Scouter Scott and Fellow Scouters,

I like that you are accumalating a list of Scouter discounts. I have an recommendation and a comment.

My recommendation.

Coleman products has a NON-PROFIT icon that offers small discounts on their webpage.

My comment.

Bottom Line Up Front. If you are making a list of discounts. I would be cautious about listing or refering to locations providing free coffee during long transits. At least I would be cautious of advertising McDonald's (or any other resturaunt or gas station) providing free coffee for Scout leaders on long drives.

I will admit, I too have driven when exhausted to and from Scouting events. Usually just by myself. But sometimes with my oldest Scouting son. Regarding driving long distances, Just from my own experience, I have been stupid driving long distances, while exhausted. I admit, I have done it.

I have reviewed the G2SS a few times, but I have not yet attended the BSA Supplimental training for "Risk Zone". I do appreciate that the "Risk Zone" and G2SS appreciates that troops and units may desire to conduct a national tour permit and visit other councils and historic sites during the summer months. But BSA deglamorizes long distance exhausting driving, and encourages a few various methods such as longer transit schedule or multiple drivers.

So you may want to scratch any free coffees off the listing. But discount motel rates and comfortable beds to obtain enough sleep and rest may be a bonus to highlight.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

fgoodwin,

Greetings!

As a suggestion. This is what I would offer.

Either immediate before or after the meeting, at the same meeting location. (I would not do this during a Troop meeting).

- Have a 30 minute meeting, have an "Ice Cream Social" or "Beef Jerky and Root Beer" social. (this would be attractive to them and outside of troop time it would make them feel special)

- Although not a Chapter or Lodge business meeting (so you would not be able to conduct actual business) have all Arrowmen Scouts and adults recite the OA pledge, admonition and song. (helps keep it fresh and possibly more Brotherhood conversions)

- Then discuss transportation to the next Lodge event and staffing Summer Camp or the district Camporee. (providing service to their fellow Scouts)

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

I have difficulty with Districts and Councils that state that Scouters are to be retrained.

What the concentration is (as usually stated in the previous Quality Unit Award and the current Centennial Unit Awards), should be to achieve 100 percent training.

It should not be to retrain seasoned leaders. It should be to train those new leaders and committee members which are not yet trained.

Now for all leaders, they should attend regular Roundtable, and ocassional supplimental and advanced training. If they attend roundtable, they should learn and obtain the newest changes to merit badges, to advancement, to rank requirements, and safety, as well as picking up skill ideas for the programs.

I would expect National to be concerned about safety and program, as well as making sure Scouters are up to date with current changes. But most all significant changes are distributed via annual highlights, and usually demonstrated at monthly roundtables.

I would not expect National to be concerned about a veteran Cubmaster or veteran Scoutmaster going thru Faststart, NLE, and Specifics, to be retrained, however, I highly expect that they understand current safety restrictions and program/advancement procedures.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

I just finished another weekend of IOLS, just hours ago. The discussions that came up during the instruction of Interfaith Worship Service. WOW! Another can of worms we opened up there! A couple of leaders attending the training had a difficult time accepting that youth may have a faith another higher being or a god, rather than our God.

I guess, if I were to choose another profession, I would like to be a high school teacher. It took me many years to understand that there is a differences between my own wants and needs. What I want, is not necessarily what I need. Sort of, I want a Mustang GT convertable, but I need any ole' vehicle that will get me between home and work. Trying to relate that template to my thoughts of becoming a teacher. My own differences between expectations and acceptance. While, I would have high expectations of my students, I would accept the state established minimum grade, the lowest effort to successfully pass a student into their next grade level or into their future life. At work we sometime joke, "Aim high, but set the bar low".

May an Eagle Board of Review ask the Youth about God?

My opinion. Yes.

My concern would be that they have a belief of some religious principle. How strong or how weak, I cannot control. Refering back to John in KC's earlier post in this string.

"If his faith is weak, you may......." To myself, I am happy that they have a faith, weak or strong.

For any Scout, I would be very happy to hear how strong their faith is. But I would certainly accept them explaining their weak faith, and that they are still exploring their own definitions of who their god is to them.

For the few EBORs that I have sat on, all of those candidates expressed a faith. Only a few could state how they were reverent, but the majority of EBOR candidates could not amplify how they performed beyond just their basic belief. Along with answering a myrad of other EBOR questions, I was always happy with their weak faith as exceeding my minimum threshold.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Lee,

Greetings!

Are you too young for Wood Badge?

Let me answer it this way, from my own experiences.

I had been an adult leader for seven years, and enjoy helping out my unit once a month or so as just an ASM. I was 25 when I attended. I wasn't the youngest, but the second youngest out of nearly 50 people. I learned alot and I worked my ticket. Hopefully, Scouting and my units have continue benefit from me earning my beads years ago, my continued use of Wood Badge skills, and continuing to work my ticket every day.

Did my unit benefit at that time. I would like to say yes.

Now, theoretically, would they have benefited if I was 45 at the time, a pillar in the community, a church leader, a community leader. Maybe even more so.

Most recently. Mrs Crew21, also a Wood Badger wanted to send Crew21 Jr to Wood Badge.

Crew21 Jr was a good student, an Eagle Scout, a good young man; but I wasn't as enthusiastic about his age, Scouting (in general) benefiting, or him benefiting from the Wood Badge experience.

He was 18 years old when he attended, and he too was the second youngest in his Wood Badge.

From Crew21 Jr working his ticket, did our units benefit? Yes. Would Scouting benefit even greater if he was older, more mature, a pillar in the community, etc, etc? Maybe.

You're effect on Scouting may have a bigger impact if you are older, stable, mature, and respected. But even at a young age, if you attend Wood Badge now, complete your ticket and remember that its for the boys. You will still have a positive impact on Scouting.

Today, you have the available time as a young adult to attend Wood Badge. Imagine, in ten years, two,three or four kids, a spouse, long hours at work, and long distance commutes. Can you look at your spouse and tell them you want to take a week of vacation time to attend Wood Badge? Some of us can and have. Some others will always talk about going to Wood Badge or regret they never took the time.

Go now. Your unit will benefit and you will benefit.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

Greetings again!

I find it hard to believe the disappointment of some forum members of the EBOR participants. I have been invited to sit EBORs before. Over a few years, I can't say I have been on numerous Eagle BOR. But I have been on a few.

Every Council and District Advancement Chair should be trained to their position. They should understand sensitive topics. They should review and have a good working knowledge of the Advancement Committee Policies & Procedures. They should also understand "ages and stages", a 13 y/o Eagle Scout candidate may not answer the same as a 17 Eagle Scout candidate. But still, while an EBOR is interviewing a teenage Scout, they are also interviewing a potential Eagle Scout. A youth leader.

I would honestly be suprised to meet a Council or District Advancement Chair that does not understand their responsibilities.

Now... I do not have my manuals in front of me right now. But I thought any advancement committee only has two decisions, and up to three actions. The decide Recommend or not recommend. They must act by first, signing an advancement report form 34403B for every Scout Rank. If the decision is unanimous to recommen approval of the applicant, the second action would be for the Chairman of the EBOR needs to sign the form 58-728A.

If the EBOR decides not to recommend. First, the sign the advancement report form 34403B for every Scout Rank. Second, at the bottom of the advancement report form 34403B, they list Scouts not recommended for advancement. Third return the form 58-728A to the council service center and fourth to explain to the Scout, verbal and in writing why failed to qualify.

I understood there is not an option to deny a candidate, once a candidate feels they are qualified to apply again. They may request another EBOR. I would trust an EBOR committee and a Council District to be briefed on the agenda of an EBOR.

So why members of our forum become angry with BOR or EBOR members, I am honestly confused. Members of our forum stated that Scouts have been denied. The Eagle Scout candidates are not "denied". Candidates are "not recommended".

If EBORs where to pass each and every candidate. No matter of their beliefs, their behaviors, their academic record or their criminal record. No matter of their citizenship, their leadership, their character development. Then why have an EBOR at all?

If fellow Scouters want to complain about the decisions of an EBOR, then what do those that complain about Advancement Chairs or EBOR members recommend. Should BSA just place the Eagle Rank patch and Eagle Scout Medal on sale at the trading post? For under 3 dollars anyone could be an Eagle?

I would place my trust in an EBOR. I would place my trust in a Council Committee to select a qualified Council Advancement Chair. I would hope that those whom complain about an EBOR or the Advancement Chair may approach their Council Committee and inquire about the qualifications of these members.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

My two cents.....

I gotta to agree with scoutldr.

There are alot of answers that should have already been provided by MacyM's son's Scoutmaster and Troop Committee.

The Scouter.com forum should have only re-stated what is obvious. I also highly agree with the previous posts, all of the previous post and our forum members have equally done a great job answering questions that should have been easily answered at the unit level.

I can certainly understand (although I don't like it) someone debating about God in any online forum. Or someone debating the Scouting Program or policies. It seems nearly human nature for people to debate and discuss, and even argue over nearly any issue at the drop of a hat.

But I have a hard time believing that a parent of an Eagle Candidate does not understand the basic joining requirements.

I also don't enjoy MacyM's comment, "I thought that you boy scout types were kind". As if to negatively implicate that we are not kind.

Also stating "you...types" as if it were an accusation, or that Scouts are different.

I am proud to be a Scout Leader and disappointed that an Eagle Scout Candidate's parent (or any Scout parent) would use (or type) a comment like that. It would seem that we already find differences between us.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

D.A.M.

Congratulations!

I wish I could take credit for this quote. But I've heard it a few times and a friend had said it about Crew21_Adv during a Scout ceremony.

"This is not so much for what the recepient has done. But this is for what the recepient will do!"

Ideally, these awards are a "Thank You" along your own Scouting trail.

Receiving the District Award of Merit does not mean the end of of the trail in the Scouting program, but to make a recepient feel appreciated, and continue to help Scouts advance, conduct merit badge sessons, cook, sweep, move tents, staff camps, drive OA teams, chair committees and etc.

So, I expect your fellow Scouters in your District do think fondly of you, and (like your own Scouts) equally still expect alot more from you.

How have I resolved receiving any recognition. By working harder, camping in the cold, working in the heat, driving Scouts to camp and looking to staff the needs within the District.

Congratulations again!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

dpicarelli,

Greetings!

Difficult question.

As I understand. Each Council is independent, which purchase the rights to the BSA program from National. There are Regions which are established to aid in managing the program.

Depending on what the issue is. I would ask to address the Council Executive Committee, or specifically the Council Key Three (one being the Scout Executive, but the other two being the Council Commissioner and the Council President). The Executive Committee has some power to resolve issues at the unit, district, and council level.

If you really feel that you must go up one more level to discuss an issue. There are program managers and Area Directors at the Regional level. If you google either Western (Central, Northeastern, or Sourthern) Region BSA, you will find their webpages. You should be able to find contact "receptionist" telephone numbers and ask to speak to your Council's area director.

Hopefully you can resolve your problem at the lowest level with minimal impact to the program and your Scouts.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Joni,

Greetings again!

Just getting time to read over the entire post... and it looks like I replied too early, but hopefully you get my gist. You had already stated it may have been the wrong time and place. Which was my agenda in replying, but maybe emphasising that to other leaders as well.

Will there be a disagreement? Probably yes. And those will probably become loud, vocal, and insulting.

But if a discussion like this can be delayed to a more appropriate time. While still a disagreement, it may be handled more civil. Especially by the offending ASM, which interjected at the wrong time during a COH.

Good Luck at getting your ASM to see that her knowledge may be valued by the Troop, but the timing is not.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Joni,

I briefly read over this posting.

The new material is TLT, and is very easy to conduct. The only qualification to conduct it is have a SM, SPL and the PLC present. It should routinely be conducted by the SM and SPL. With just the TLT material alone. It is about an hour maybe two hour orientation towards Troop Leadership. (Maybe three if you have a pizza and a motivational leadership movie)

As for the ASM. I can empathize; it probably felt like a knife in your back. We all have had dealings with similar people. Sorry it has happened to you.

I have been told this on quiet a few occasions, when my mouth worked faster than my brain. I have also told my sons and friends on occasion. "Time and Place".

My son had made a crude joking comments during a recent Venturing Crew meeting. As his Advisor, I had to remind him, where we are at, what we are doing, and it is currently the wrong "time and place" for jokes such as that.

What the ASM may have said, may have been partially true. Similarly, the ASM, should have been deferred. "This is the wrong time and place, lets discuss this later and send out the correct information"

It may be to late to correct the ASM behavior. But possibly address interfering with a COH emcee as being the wrong "time and place" during your next committee meeting.

Good luck!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv