CNYScouter

Welcome to the forum. Go to www.scouting.org web page and click on BSA online Learning Center. You will need to register first. From here you can take Cub Leader (Cubmaster, Tiger Leader, DL and WDL) Fast Start Orientation Training. Under the General link there is Youth Protection Training. If you PM me I can send you a link for online New Leader Essentials (I don't know if your council will execpt this). Perhaps you can find an experianced leader from your pack that will meet with you over the summer and help you get started until you can get training. Good Luck

Thanks to both of you for responding. This weekend is more of a open house/signup than a meeting and although some of the suggestions are beyond my experiance right now I can use some of these and the others make great ideas for future meetings. As the Club has boats setting up a sailboat/canoe/powerboat for saftey and to identify its parts we could do. I also own a small R/C boat so that is a possiblity. I found some PC sailing simulators that I may bring and set up depending on the weather. As the Yacht club is located in a county park there is enough room to set up a short GPS course. Eamonn - this is exactly what I had in mind for our first meeting. Great minds do think alike!

The Ship is having a First-nighter on Saturday. The plan was to take potential Ship members sailing but the weather doesnt look its going to cooperate (high winds and rain is predicted) so I am looking for another activity for a Plan B. We are doing this as an open house style from 10am-3pm. The club does have indoor area just not a large area. Any suggestions for a hands-on activity in case of rain?

I couldn't agree more with the statement: Trying to fill names on paper just to push the charter through will come back and bite you on the tail. However the people I recruited for the committee want to be involved and do have a scouting background. They were thrilled that I had asked them to be part of the ship. I dropped off an adult application to them and within a few days they had actually drove to my house and dropped off their application. As far as the CO goes. They have been around as a sailing club since 1885. They have had multiple Sea Scout Ships in the past. But once the person heading it up left (usually because their kids had aged out) they have dropped the ship as they couldn't find anyone to keep it going. I also feel pressed to get this going as the ship will be sailing and here in the NE we have a very short time in which we can do this. If the ship is not up and running by the time school is out that nothing will happen until Sept. High School youth will have classes until the midlle of June and then start tests with graduation being the weekend of June 23-25. As all the youth I have spoken with want to sail, waiting until Sept. to start there won't be much of an incentive to join the ship then.

Here in NY we also have a new law like this. This means that any adult (over 18) leader staying at one of our summer camps must be a registered leader. NYS Child Safety Act. On July 19, 2005 Governor George Pataki signed the Child Safety Act (Chapter 260 of the laws of 2005) into law. This act requires childrens camp operators to ascertain whether prospective employees are listed on NYS Division of Criminal Justice Services Sex Offender registry prior to hiring them. According to the NYS Childrens Camp Laws each adult over the age of 18 that is in camp whether paid or volunteer is considered staff and subject to this check. Additionally each contracted employee regardless of age is subject to this clearance. Here is a link to the letter sent out by our council explaining this: http://cnyscouts.org/files/office_files/whats_new/Leader%20Update%20Child%20Safety%20Act.pdf This is going to make it real fun at recharter time as the council is going to manditory training and to recharter your unit all registered leaders must be trained in their position.

My Council will not issue a charter for the ship without a COR with a filled out app. However, my DE (and gee, its not that he has ever been wrong before) did say that the IH could be the COR and the COR is the only position that can be registered as another position in a unit. They can also be registered as the Committee Chair or Committee Member. So to charter a unit you would still need 4 adults min. (Advisor/Skipper, 2 committee members, and a CC/COR/IH). Perhaps someone was listed as a COR but you just never met them (been there before also) As the COR need to be a member of the CO this is the only position I can not recruit for myself. Tried going by the book. IH said that they had people in the club willing to be COR and on the Ship Committee. After all these meetings no one from the club had stepped forward so I went out and recruited people myself for the Committee from the parents of interested kids. I have been talking about the ship starting up through e-mails and word of mouth but would like to get a flyer out.

I have recruited people to sit on the ship committee and have filled out application for them. I have recruited youth for the ship and have filled out Venturing applications for them to join the ship. We have a first-nighter scheduled for next weekend. Flyers are ready to be sent out. Whats the hold up? The CO has still not appointed a COR. After a meeting with the IH in March, the DE and I attending a Club board meeting in April and the DE and I attending another Club meeting about the ship 2 weeks ago, where at each of these it was told to the Club that appointing a COR was one of it responsibilities, that something is not right. I have been in contact with the club and they say they have someone for this position but I have yet to get a name or filled out application. Am I being impatient? As anyone else gone through this when starting up a new unit? The council has been waiting for the ship to get its charter to send out flyers to prospective high-schoolers in the area. I will need to call the DE and see if we can do this without having a charter in place.

In our council we have crews that have a focus on Golf, Target Shooting, Archery and we also have a Civil War Reenactment Crew. There is also a Crew that is service oriented and to join you must be an Eagle Scout. We used to have a Crew that did computers. They would rent a cabin and the training center (it had electricity) at our local camp, network their computers and play games all weekend. I have some friends in a classic/antique car club that would like to start a Crew that restores and works on autos. I have heard of a Crew that does traditional men's choral music. Check out www.venturing-mag.org and look at the links to Crew web sites to see the diverse activities some of these crews are into.

This sounds like an awesome event! Is this open to units in other councils? Do you have a link for information on this event?

There has been a great deal of interest in the Sea Scout Ship. The Naval Reserve Center here has a Sea Cadet unit. They contacted the council office about the Sea Scouts. They would like to sign up any eligible members they have to the ship as the one thing they lack is any type of outdoor program. If this were to happen the ship could easily start with 30+ youth. As I do not know anything about this program (and I am just learning the Sea Scout program) How compatible are these programs? What do you think about linking these two programs up? What issues and advantages do you see in doing this?

Our council just had a Cub Scout recruitment drive through Burger King. Thsi was done on a Sat. afternoon and there was a rep. from council at all our local Burger Kings Any boy who registered at this received a free Kids Meal. I talked with the DE from one district who said they picked up 30 kids, I don't know about council-wide.

I think on MacScouter.com you will find a ceremony used for an outgoing Cubmaster and introducing the new Cubmaster. You can also try The Virtual Cub Scout Leader's Handbook wesite. I often used to find 2 ceremonies and combine portions of them to create a new slightly different one or use one for an outline to create one I couldn't find.

On top of telling me that a Scout had to be registered in both a Troop and Crew to work on Eagle he also said that they could not dual register and had to pay a fee for both programs. I agree 100% with the posts here. As this question already came up I want to be sure that any scout in the ship who wants to make Eagle has everything he needs and not be held up over something like this. Out of 6 DE's in our council I was told this guy is the best one we have. He is also considered to be the Venturing expert as the Ship will be the 12th Venturing Unit he has started in his district. These units make up almost half of the crews in the council. (This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

Different Mr.Battaglia Paul Battaglia is a lawyer at Bond, Schoeneck & King in Syracuse

After our meeting last night, where I had both the Venturing Leaders Manual and the Sea Scout Manual, and showed these sections to the DE. He responded with yes a Venturer can work in a Crew/Ship towards the Eagle Rank but he still must be registered in a Troop to earn the Eagle rank and had written documention to support this from the National office. I'll ask to see this next time I get over to the council office. Any Venturer who achieved the First Class rank as a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout may continue working for the Star,Life and Eagle ranks and Eagle Palms while registered as a Venturer up to his 18th birthday." This does imply that that a Scout can be registered only as a Venturer and continue to work on Boy Scout Ranks, but I can not find anything that contradicts his statement.

emb021- What you are saying is exactly what we were told in Venturing Leaders training. Do you have a link to the web page that says this? He told me that the next time I came over to the council office he would show me the letter he got from the BSAs National Registrar stating that a Scout must be registered in both a Troop and a Crew to receive the Eagle rank. But, this is the same person who referred to the unit as a Sea Scout Venture Crew and told me that he not sure if he can charter us as a Sea Scout Ship because we dont physically have a boat and he would have to check on it.

During our meeting last night the topic came up about earning the Eagle rank in a Crew/Ship. The DE said that a Scout can earn the rank in the Crew but must be registered in a both a Crew/Ship and Troop to receive the Eagle award. During the Venturing Leaders training we were told that as long as the Scout has made first class he could earn his Eagle through the Crew but no mention was made about having to be registered in both a Crew and a Troop. He said that he had just gone through this and National had just rejected a Scout in our council Eagle application because he had joined a Venturing Crew and dropped his membership in a troop. Has anyone dealt with this situation?

Actually flogging wont be enough as the DE used the term Sea Scout Venture Crew. I think we will leave the punishment up to emb021! These threads have been helpful and given me lots to think about. A couple of comments before I am off to the Ships organizational meeting tonight. The whole Ship vs. Crew debate is something to really think about. Its just I didnt spend 7 months looking for a CO for a Sea Scout Ship and then finding one that owns boats and sails and then chartering a Venturing Crew. That doesnt make any sense to me. If I was going to starting up a Venturing Crew I have organizations much closer to me and that can offer a year-round place to meet. But I am also concerned as LongHaul said, that if I want to start a Sea Scout Ship that follows the Sea Scout program, does the Sea Scout Advancement, wears the uniform but the youth arent interested it wont work either. I also need to throw in that even though the military cant charter a unit, they can assist one. The Naval Reserve Center here has said that if I can get a Ship going they would like to be involved. I was told they would supply uniforms (for little cost or free) and allow us to use the Center to meet during the winter months. I have to think they wont be interested if we are not using the Sea Scout advancement and not going to using the Sea Scout uniform. Lots of things to consider. We are hoping at the meeting tonight that enough people and youth are interested from the Club and the people Ive talked with that we can get the minimum number to charter the Ship.

The farther I get into this the more questions I have. It seems that because the Sea Scouts are now under the Venturing Program they have taken more of the Venturing side of things and less of the Sea Scout side. My DE has even gone as far as calling the Ship a Sea Scout Venturing Crew. It would seem to me that a Sea Scout Ship uses the program outlined in the Sea Scout Manual and not the Venturing Program A Sea Scout Ship would work on Sea Scout Advancement and ranks A Sea Scout Ship would wear the Sea Scout Uniforms. If you are not using the Sea Scout Program, ranks and uniform, arent you just a Venturing crew and not a Sea Scout Ship? Where do you draw the line in what is a Sea Scout Ship and what is a Venturing Crew? So, who makes the decision to use the Sea Scout Program? The CO, the adults putting it together, the youth, a combination of these?

Thanks for the responses. I would love to slow down but these are some of the questions I am being asked by Scouts and parents and the CO and was not sure how to address them. The participation thing is less about advancement and more about being active in the Ship. Also the manual is not very clear how the participation requirement works. Our council camp is 4+hours from here so the Scout working a camp will not have the opportunity to make a Ships meeting during this time. This year he is a CIT, which is for 4 weeks. Next year if he becomes a full-time camp councilor this turns into 8 weeks. I just think that this kind of punishes him for doing Scouting things, but I guess it is his choice. I couldnt agree more about Football and sports but you know how some parents are. One of my son's friends would like to join the ship. He would like to do a trip to the Florida Seabase. He expects to join the ship, come to a couple of meeting, have Mom and Dad write a check, have the trip all planned out for him and he shows up and goes. I can't fault him for thinking like this because this is the way the Troop he is in does things. This is the type of thing I think the CO and myself do not want to see. (and not sure how to approach and deal with this) One thing I was looking at for activities for the Fall and Winter months was working on some of the Sea Scout Advancements. Here in NY, for youth to use a powerboat they need to take a boating safety course and pass a test. This would also fulfill one of the requirements for Apprentice. Ive already have had offers for boat donations so this is something we will ned to get done. I also have not had the opportunity to take Woodbadge yet. I will be taking it in Sept. and hope it will help make this stuff clearer. Thanks for the answers.

We are having an organizational meeting for this ship this week in which we are hoping to have enough youths and adults to charter the unit. I already have had a few questions come up and would like to know how some of you experienced Venturing Leaders would handle these: 1)One of my sons friends wants to join the Ship. He has done his POR in his Troop but still has required MBs to finish for rank advancement. He wants to only be in the Ship and leave the Troop. Would you allow the POR from the Troop or require that he do this with the Ship? Would you check with SM to make sure he fulfilled the POR? 2)Another one of my sons friend would like to join the Ship. He is going to be a CIT at camp for 4 weeks this summer. The Sea Scouts advancement has a 75% attendance requirement. How would you handle this? How about sports? There are a couple of scouts who play football, with practice and games 6 days a week the months of Sept. and Oct. and if they miss a practice they dont play. One thing the CO is worried about is youth signing up for the summer, basically getting free/cheap sailing lessons through the Ship and not being active doing other Ship activities. They are also want to know we are going to keep the kids from disappearing once winter gets here. I think these are topics that should be handled by the youth but as this is a new ship these questions have come up before we have even started.

This is one area that worries me the most in starting a new Sea Scout Ship. Where to back off and where to step in and help. (and knowing when to step in) I want the Ship to be youth-led, but I know if the youth dont put effort into getting things done and too many activities get canceled because of this during this start-up stage it will fall apart. The other concern I have is getting other adults to understand they need spend the time teaching the youth to do things instead of doing it themselves. Where do you draw this line?

Eamonn - I kind of agree and disagree with you at the same time. Your are right about the BSA not knowing anything about Theatre. However the BSA does understand how to teach Leadership. It takes a creative Advisor to come up with how to link the two. This is where I think the Venturing Program lacks. National need to have better training on combining its program with a special interest. If look at the Arts and Hobbies Bronze award you see this statement: (Activities or projects that are more available in your area may be substituted with your Advisor's approval for activities shown above.) I cant remember the link or Web Site but I did see a Crew that had done this to fit into their specialty. While trying to find a CO for the Sea Scout Ship I ran into an antique/classic car club that asked about using Venturing as their youth program. After comparing what Sea Scouts was doing with boats, with a little creativity and effort I dont see why this cant be done with automobiles. Maintaining, Repairing and customizing cars all could be fit into a Venturing Program. How about a trip to the Daytona 500 for their Super-Activity? Back in the 50s and 60d Car Clubs were all the rage. With the interest young people are showing customizing imports and around here we have seen a rash of teen deaths due to high speed a place to do this in a safe environment is greatly needed.

I see a good deal of literature on New Scout Patrols and recruiting but very little on how to successfully use a Venture Patrol and retaining older Scouts I would really like to see the BSA do a better job in training adult leaders on how to retain older scouts and how to use a Venture patrol in a Troop.. I also seeing that many of the Troops here are not meeting the needs of older scouts. Many of the adult leaders think that a Venturing Crew is the answer and by doing less car camping and more high adventure activities they will magically retain older scouts. I am also seeing these are the same Troops where the adults do everything and the Scouts just show up. I have a Dad who wants to be involved with the Sea Scout Ship. His son is 13 and almost Eagle and is bored with the Troop program. The Dad went on to say that this troop does nothing but focus on advancement. 28 Eagles in the last 4 years. He also said they have very few Scouts over the age of 15. Once these kids reach Eagle they never see them again. My sons Troop is having similar issues. The adults in his Troop cant understand why older boys dont stick around the Troop and they want to start a Venturing Crew. Yet, adults plan all the meetings and activities, plan the menu, collect the money and buy the food. Adults even run COHs. The scouts have no sense of ownership in the Troop and it offers them no challenges so they get bored and leave. I dont think there is a problem with the Venturing program but I think a better job needs to be done in educating Troop Leaders that it is more than Advanced Boy Scouts. I think one of the problems with Venturing is that there is no one clear-cut way to operate a Crew, but this is also want makes it intriguing. Maybe, I cant believe Im suggesting this, it needs to be less youth-run and more youth-led like a Troop. Im seeing that many kids that want to join the ship have little or no leadership skills and have no idea on what to do. I have to agree that Crews associated with Troops dont last very long. Most of these get started by a group of older scouts and then fall apart when this group leaves and go away to college. In our council we have 2 very successful Venturing Crews. They are stand-alone units with no ties to a Troop. One is associated with JrROTC and the other does Civil War Reenactments. Both of these have been around 4+ years and are going strong.

emb021 said: If the election team is doing their job, if the scoutmaster is doing his/her job, and if the scouts take it seriously, there is no reason why those who should get it don't. I think this says it all about the situation I see these scouts in - people not doing their job. One of the Chapter Advisors I was talking with, even after going out and contacting all the Troops in the chapter, still had 4 out of 17 Troops (almost 25%) that never responded or they couldn't get them to commit to hold OA elections.