acco40

I regularly refer to some of the boys in our troop as Mr. So-and-so. Some are very confused, assuming that they mean their father. I don't do it all the time, but when I want their attention, it works. One of my father's favorite practical jokes that he always had done at wedding receptions was to have the new bride paged as Mrs. New-last-name, such as will Mrs. Smith please come to the office. 90% of the time, the bride assumed it was for her mother-in-law, sister(s)-in-law, etc. and didn't realize that it could mean her!

All Presidents accepted honary Presidents of the Boy Scouts. I know Ford was (is) and Eagle Scout and Carter was a Scoutmaster and Committee Chair for a Boy Scout troop in Georgia. I know that Kennedy was a Scout. I don't know if the record books keep track of Cub Scout participation by Presidents. (above was from my memory, below from web sources) George Bush II was a Cub Scout. Johnson organized a unit (Post 1200) in Washington, D.C., which was chartered to the House of Representatives for page boys working in the U.S. Congress. Roosevelt was the first to enter the White House with a record as an active Scout leader. He was president of the Greater New York Councils of the Boy Scouts of America.

NJ, I'm divided on the local option possibility. I guess because of my age and the times I grew up in (and not being a southerner) as an impressionable 10-18 yr old, I viewed local laws as very suspect. Most local laws that I saw were draconian drug laws, racial segregation, etc. I saw a more federal approach as more just. Local laws were very conservative (back when conservative was a dirty word.) Now, many local laws have the pendulum swinging far the other way (i.e. see California) and have been labeled "far left" and liberal (and now liberal is the dirty word). I'm not a hard campaigner to disallow avowed homosexuals or to keep reverence to God mandatory, I do hope that Scouting remains consistent in it's ideals throughout the USA. To further explain, by consistent, I mean the same throughout the country, not necessarily opposed to change.

Now Bob, you know better than to confuse half the posters on this forum with facts! Shame on you!

Friday. We were encouraged to show up Thursday evening (course started promptly Friday morning) and we were dismissed around 4:00 - 5:00 PM on Sunday. We ran the weekend before and weekend after the Labor Day weekend. My patrol (GO BEARS!) met during that "downtime" to rehearse skits, coordinate ideas, etc.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I (the SM) plan to talk with the whole troop for a full meeting before we proceed with SPL elections. We have a rather young troop (current SPL celebrated his 13th birthday this week), with the oldest boys being 14. My talk is going to concentrate on a description and the expectations for the various offices (primarily SPL and PL). Yes, some of the boys view the positions as just more work, some as status, etc. It seems cruel to some, but just like adults who elect some strange and in my view incompetent politicians, you dance with who took you to the prom. If the boys experience first hand what effect a good or bad SPL has on the troop, it is a great learning experience. Have high expectations for whomever the boys elect. I constantly offer my assistance to the leadership or should I say I make my availability to offer assistance well known. If they choose my help, or any other adult leaders help fine. If not, they usually surprise me and do a good job on their own. I also have two sons in the troop. Now, I'm the first to admit that they don't view their relationship as Scouts but as brothers. This can lead to many arguments if one (as a PL or SPL) tries to lead the other one.

One of the best lines in the original Blues Brother movie, "I hate Illinois Nazis." I believe Henry Gibson played the head Nazi and John Belushi ran him off the road with his converted cop car. Maybe that should have been posted in the favorite comedys link.

OGE, I think you hit the nail on the head on that one!

First, welcome to the forum. Second, I guess every post needs a wet blanket so I'll fill that role. In my opinion the skills of camping, knot tying, backpacking, lashing, etc. are secondary to being a good SM. Planning and patience are a must! The leadership skills can be learned. Understanding the Scouting program and "people skills" are the most important traits that you will need. Your experience as a youth and adult training helps you understand the Scouting program. In your self assessment you stated that your people skills, leadership and persuasiveness are weaknesses. The fact that you are quiet and don't talk much may be true but I would not label that as a weakness unless it is extreme. One does not need to be an extrovert to be a good SM. However, one does need to be able to interface with a wide variety of people (youth and adults). If you feel that you can't overcome that, I'd suggest you do not assume the SM position at this time. However, if you can, definately go for it! The quiet, lead by example SMs are the best around in my book.

Bob White, Thanks for the reply. In my council, we have a Scout Executive/CEO, his assistant, a Director of Field Operations and Program Director, & Finance Director. What exactly is a Council President? (I'm never embarassed to show my ignorance on-line!)

Many spouses have asked me for a definintion of "overly active." Any suggestions?

Yikes! My 4.5 years as a den leader were a sham! Not once did I collect den dues so I guess I never had any "active" boys and all that received advancement awards did so under false pretenses. Please forgive me.

I don't want to get into the "Merlyn" debate. Now, let's put ourselves in Ms. Bev Buswell's shoes. Pretend that she sees Scouting as a wonderful program for the youth that it admits but does not agree with the policy that it currently holds with respect to (insert anything here, but for arguments sake ...) the exclusion of avowed homosexuals as role models (leaders) for our youth. I hate the "my way or the highway" or the "America, love it or leave it" bumper sticker mentality than many seem to have. Just what action should a leader take to get policy changed? To me, it is very "Scout like" to work within the system to get policy changed but exactly what is that system? How do we provide feedback or express our opinion "within the system?" This is not a issue debate, but a process question.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Trustworthy? (I'm half-way joking.) (This message has been edited by acco40)

That he doesn't value a strict time! (Sounds somewhat like me.) Sometimes time is an important factor, such as when MB classes are held at set times. Other times, it is not. I'm amazed when our troop camps out in the middle of nowhere and we are scheduled to recreate the following day (swim, explore, leisurely hike, etc.) and I always get the "What time are we supposed to get up" question. My answer is usually along the lines of "when I wake up." Individuals are different. Some like a strict detailed planned out affair. Others are more laissez faire about it.

Instead of doing your way or my way, why, as Scouters, don't we both try to do it the Scouting way! Sometimes words like discipline, leadership, etc. are hot button words because individuals have many different definitions. Ed, if the SPL sets a time for taps and lets it slide it says that he does not value setting a strict time for taps. Often, the question I see being raised boils down to "When do we allow the Scouts to fail?" The beauty of Scouts, as Barry and a myriad of others have pointed out, is that it is a SAFE environment for the boys to experience failure. I say let them burn the eggs, stay up to late, have bad menu planning, etc. These are great teaching tools!

Medical services is one of the few commodities that we purchase upfront without knowing the price. The main cause is insurance.

"Fine, if they aren't disturbing the adults. However, giving them a set time for taps and then letting them get away with violating it challenges the authority of the leadership of the troop." Just who do you think the "leadership" is? I'll give you a hint, they are under the age of 21.

"One size fits all" does not. With just inseam and waist variances, compromises will exist. I can buy various manufacturers pants, all with identical inseam and waist measurements and alas, some will fit nicely, others horridly. With the BSA options, "you gets what you get." Oh well, I've got bigger troubles elsewhere.

"BUT...ultimately, if necessary, the adults must act as the disciplinarians." Why? Unless it is a serious health and safety issue, back-off. If the boys won't get quiet, guess what, they (and others) may lose some sleep, be irritable the next day, have others respond to their actions negatively, ... These are all real world consequences to their actions! Why not let them experience these consequences in a safe controlled environment like Scouting? They will learn so much more if you that way than having adults step in and have the adults act as disciplinarians. Now, if our SPL came to me for advice on how to quiet the boys, I would gladly offer him suggestions and/or help him discover ways to obtain his goals. But if not asked, I would but out. (This message has been edited by acco40)

Rooster, I'm curious, do you view morals more as beliefs or as actions? I'll take actions over beliefs any day. That is my primary beef with most organized religions that I know. Fatih and belief are emphasized more than actions, especially in Christian religions. It reminds me of the following joke: A priest and an atheist go out fishing on the lake in a row boat. The atheist gets a bite and the fish is so big, the jerk on the line pulls him overboard. The atheist screams, "help, save me, I can't swim!" The priest asks if he believes in the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. The atheist just yells, "save me" and goes under only to bob back up again screaming "save me!" The priest again asks him the same question. The atheist, somewhat bewildered answers, "maybe" and goes under again. Finally, he resurfaces again and thrashes toward the boat with a plea to be saved. The priest asks again, "Do you believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?" The atheist answers, "Yes." The priest then rows away exclaiming, "You're saved!"(This message has been edited by acco40)

Rooster, congrats on summer camp. If everyone came home alive, consider it a resounding success! (Yes, for the comically challenged, that was a joke). I tend to give the boys a lot of leeway at summer camp. MB classes, opening/closing campfires, meals, etc. are all optional events. Miss a class, don't earn a MB. Miss a meal, go hungry. Stay up late, you get tired. I attend every event and if a boy does not what to attend he may IF he follows the G2SS (buddy, or minimum of two adults, etc.). Miss a campfire and you miss out on a lot of fun (or don't have to endure drudgery dependent on how good the campfires are!). What a great concept! Learn from your mistakes just like adults do! There are consequences to our decisions! It is extremely rare that the boys choose not to attend. I found that if the adult leaders make it mandatory to attend, being adolescents and wanting to show their independence, they fight it. I have two sets of brothers in our troop. One is a set of identical twins, the other my sons (19 months apart). The older one is a fine gentleman when interacting with everyone except for his younger brother. The twins are no problem. Sibling rivalry is a tenacious thing. Just like the SPL does not view me as the SM (I'm dad), the 2nd Class Scout does not see an SPL or SM but a bossy older brother and dad. I don't like it, but I'm aware of it. It is a fairly natural and common occurence. As for horseplay, keep safety in mind at all times. I also tend to watch out for the individual who becomes the butt of too many jokes or pranks. Patrols & troops are forms of gangs with all of the positive and negative connotations attached. We need to try and emphasize the positive and attenuate the negative. One negative is the mob mentality. Try to squash it quick. Homesickness, that can be tough. Usually it occurs after day two or three. IF you can get them over the hump and into day four, it seems all downhill (easier) to get them through all six or seven days. I got lucky this year. Good help from my fellow leaders, 100% attendance by the boys (plus a couple of provisional Scouts), good weather, and no real homesickness problems. Last year, we were not so lucky.

Yes, port and starboard. I grew up in a land licked area with garage lights of red and green (Dad's idea, naval reserve officer at the time).

Similar to SM conferences, BOR can be held at any time, not just for rank advancement. Saltheart, in your profession, you have reviews. So do I. On the appraisal form is a place for my signature that by signing it simply states that I had the review. Not that I agreed with it, liked it, hated it, did well, did poorly, etc. Just simply, that I had a review. It does not guarantee a promotion, raise, demotion, firing, etc. Similarly, the SM conference requirement is the same. It is a simple as "participate." By participating, it does not mean that the SM has recommended the Scout is ready for advancement.(This message has been edited by acco40)

And you don't see that as a fashion statement?