acco40

The tomb used to be guarded only during the daylight hours. Also, more trivia, although unknown to this day, the WWII and Korean Conflict "unknowns" have received the Medal of Honor. The Vietnam "unknown" crypt remains empty.

FOG, That is the best post that I have read today. Were there only two Kipling brothers?

Mom, I sure wish I could play the piano. Why didn't you make me take piano lessons when I was "little?" Why did you make me quit? Yes, your son, if he does not obtain his eagle rank may very well "blame" his father for not "making" him earn it when he is now a Scouter for your grandson. Such is the territory that goes with being a parent. What I detest are the parents who look at obtaining the eagle rank as a ticket to college scholarships, job placement, etc. Good luck!

What part of "joke" was difficult to understand? Being Jewish is also a lifestyle choice for many. (Sorry, just wanted to stir the pot and start the religion vs. race debate!)

IMO, Scouting (BSA policy) should not allow avowed homosexuals or heterosexuals. Our (Scouters) sexuality should be of no concern to the Scouts or fellow Scouters. It should not come into play in our dealings with the youth. Granted some view homosexuality in and of itself as sinful. Same with borrowing money, not getting circumcised, eating pork, having one's head uncovered, mental illness, masturbation, divorce, and a boatload of other "ills." Why the BSa has chosen to make a stand on homosexuality is the question. My take, the public relations & potential monetary disaster of having a leader assault a youth member (a la the Catholic Church) is too scary. Right now, that outweighs the current backlash from a vocal minority who challenge the current policy. Let's stop couching the debate behind euphemisms such at "traditional values."

You can't always get what you want, but sometimes you just might find, you get what you need. ~Mick Jagger The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and try to put things in it. ~Terry Pratchett, The Bromeliad (This message has been edited by acco40)

I'm confused by your response Overtrained. I thought that OA events were for just that, OA members (conclaves, ordeals, etc.). So how could a Unit attend? I encourage all OA members in our Unit to attend but they don't attend as a unit. Now I have seen some boys go overboard in OA and leave their troop behind (adults too). Your first responsibility is to your unit.

Have not seen it to date. However, my son (11 yr old 2nd Class) is a BIG Weird Al Yankovic fan and on his new album (I'm old they are still called albums) thiere is a "Scout" in a mismatch of Cub Scout and Boy Scout items (older Webelos hat, red epaulets, etc.). Scouting and Scouts is a part of Americana.

nldscout, your comments, "These belong to the troop not the CO. The boys earned the money to purchase them, not our sponsor.", made me chuckle. Who do you think owns the troop? That's right, the CO. The trailer and the equipment either belong to an individual (a scout or scouter) or the CO. The "troop" doesn't own anything.

As my late father would say, when in doubt, read the directions! According to The Boy Scout Handbook, the three fingered salute (form Scout sign, bring hand upward until forefinger touches brim of hat or arch of right eyebrow, palm not showing) should be used to wearing your Scout uniform, with or without a hat anytime you pass the flag, it passes you or you see it being raisies or lowered, and for the Pledge of Allegiance. When not in uniform, greet the flag by placing your right hand over your heart. Now my only comment, is that when you are wearing the Scout uniform you ARE wearing a hat. The uniform consists of the shirt, pants (or shorts), socks, belt & buckle, neckerchief (troop option) and hat (BSA twill or mesh cap or campaign hat (troop option). Now my interpretation of "troop option" for the hat and neckerchief is what kind of hat or neckerchief, not that that piece of the uniform is optional. Comments? (This message has been edited by acco40)

Welcome to the forum CubScoutFather. Glad to hear that you enrolled your son in Cub Scouts. It was and still if a wonderful program, delivered by fallible people. I hope he has a wonderful experience. As you read through this thread, I'm sure you found a very diverse bunch of opinions! Scouters come from all backgrounds and we don't all think alike. As for being gay due to "just is" who really knows why we are what we are. Personally, I believe what many prominant psychologists believe. That people fall into a spectrum on the sexuality scale. No one is really 100% heterosexual or 100% homosexual. Yes, society does place many expectations on us. With all of the bagage that goes with it, who in their right mind would choose to be gay? Maybe only Spartans in Greece many many years ago! Well, I can no sleep better knowing that my county government made a proclamation about gay marriage. That is really what I elected them for, not for balancing a budget, providing education, maintaining the roads, etc.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Hops, Does the SPL ever complain about working with an ASPL that is not of his choosing?

There are salutes and there are salutes (how is that for profundity?). I know the original post concerned saluting the flag. I believe many of the other salutes described are for saluting others. from http://www.inquiry.net/ideals/b-p/sign.htm When to Salute All wearers of the Traditional Scout Badge salute each other once a day. The first to see the other Pathfinder is the first to salute, irrespective of rank. Pathfinders will always salute as a token of respect, at the hoisting of our national flag, to Pathfinder and Scout flags when carried ceremonially, at the playing of our national anthem, to the American Flag, and to all funerals. The Salute is given by the right hand, the arm is bent at the elbow 45 degrees, and the hand, palm outwards (palm down for Seafarers), just touching the head or brim of the hat. You only salute when you are wearing a hat; otherwise you make the Scout Sign. The hand salute is only used when an Pathfinder is not carrying a staff, and is always made with the right hand. Saluting when carrying a staff is done by bringing the left arm smartly across the body in a horizontal position, the fingers making the Scout Sign just touching the staff. From the Blue Water Council (MI) web site: The Salute Is To The Flag The Scout salute signifies respect and courtesy. It is used to salute the American Flag and as a recognition of a position of leadership. The salute throughout the world is made with the right hand , with the fingers extended to touch the cap, or forehead if no cap is worn. When in uniform - Salute with your head covered or uncovered, either indoors or outdoors, stand at attention and salute with your right hand. When not in uniform - During ceremonies stand at attention, place your right had over your heart. Men wearing hats should remove them and hold over the heart. At a sports event, team members wearing uniforms should uncover their heads, stand at attention and hold hat or helmet in right hand. The National Anthem - Stand at attention, facing the flag, and salute at the first note. Hold the salute until the very last note of the anthem. If there is no flag or it cannot be seen, face the music. Stand at attention, but do not salute if the National Anthem is sung without accompaniment or is a recording. At parades or reviews - Start your salute when the approaching flag is approximately six paces (12 feet) from you. Drop the salute when the flag is about the same distance past you. Follow this procedure when the flag is carried by mounted flag bearers or passes you on a vehicle, provided the flag is flown from a staff. A flag draped coffin rates the same honor as the flag passing in a parade. It is customary to salute when "Taps" is sounded at a military funeral. The salute is held during the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance as you face the flag. Remember, you are saluting the flag and saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. When colors are raised - Stand at attention facing the flagpole. Salute as soon as the flag is started on its way up and hold the salute until it it at the peak. If the flag is to be flown at half-staff after first being hoisted to the peak. At retreat - Start the salute at the moment the flag is on its way down and hold until the flag is gathered at the base of the flagstaff. If the flag is at half-staff, salute as it is first hoisted to the peak; hold the salute until it is gathered at the base. Simply said: Salute the Flag of the United States: When you say the Pledge of Allegiance. The moment a flag passes in front of you at a parade. From the moment a flag starts being raised up a pole until it reaches the top. From the moment it starts being lowered until in the hands of the color guard. When the flag is present and the "Star Spangled Banner" is being played. When other flags are being presented, do not salute.

Don't have access to my handbooks at present but I think (always dangerous to trust my memory) Cub Scouts (Virtual Cub Leader's Handbook) 1. SALUTE WITH YOUR RIGHT HAND. 2. HOLD YOUR FINGERS AS YOU DO FOR THE CUB SCOUT SIGN. 3. KEEP THE TWO STRAIGHT FINGERS CLOSE TOGETHER. 4. TOUCH THE TIPS OF THOSE FINGERS TO YOUR CAP. 5. IF YOU ARE NOT WEARING A CAP, TOUCH YOUR EYEBROW. Above is what I described previously as a "military" style salute with two fingers. The Boy Scout is similar only using three fingers. Now I have read such things as "only salute when wearing a hat", "do not salute when carrying a staff (stave)", etc. As for uniform restrictions, I'll get back to you when I check the handbooks and see how I did!

FScouter, allow me a few minor editorial comments please. Kids (boys predominantly) will pick up sticks, use their fingers, and almost any object and make it a "gun." It is not so much that parents teach them that it is okay to point guns at people it is the fact that they do not teach that it is not okay to point guns at people. A significant difference in my book!

Mostly correct. Salute while in field uniform (similar to a US military salute except with two or three fingers extended). When not in field uniform but in an activity uniform most of the boys (Boy Scouts in particular) salute with the arm parallell to the ground, elbow bent, hand palm down touching the chest. In "civies", simply the hand (right)over the heart,

I don't wnat to get in the middle of the debate between Bob White and evmori but ... At my recent Commissioner's College class, the question was raised, "How many of you are in urban scouting?" Other than assuming that it was scouting in an urban (inner city) environment I don't have any idea what they meant. They did not really expand what the program was but to me it did sound like that it did have some fundamental differences. I don't remember it ever being referenced either in BSA literature. Is it a formal program or just a generic reference to the trials and tribulations of trying to deliver the Scouting program in an urban environment?

I do know the BSA policy on utilizing the troop meetings for merit badge training. I also know that almost every Webelos parent asks me, the SM, if our troop conducts MB classes during the troop meeting. Given the very limited time I have to answer their multitude of questions I am very blunt (my fault I admit) and say, "No. We do not conduct MB classes during troop meetings. We feel that advancement is the individual responsibility of the Scout. Our responsibility as adult troop leaders is to provide the opportunities for the boys to advance. We may bring in a MB counselor and/or subject matter expert to expose the boys to a topic and create some fun activities but we do not go item per item through the MB requirements." I also notice that after my answer, many adults respond with, "Well Troop XXX does and I think you should too.!" I have noticed that for many of the families, rapid advancement is the goal of the parents, having fun is the goal of the boys. I tend to respond to the latter.

writes - left kicks - left throws - left bats - left votes - yes I'm the only left hander in the family but I have a hight association of port siders for friends. The only thing that are right are my opinions.

Packsaddle, to to bore you with physics but physicists argue amongst themselves about the wave or particle theory with respect to light. Some experiments show that light behaves as a wave, others that it acts as a particle. Therefore, to say that "no actual projectile" exists is debatable. However, you did expand on the crux, are the tools used in laser tag construed to be firearms in the eyes of the BSA. It sounds like they are!

Seven years of Scouting, down the drain! You $%@!ed up, you trusted us.

From the G2SS: "Unauthorized and Restricted Activities The following activities have been declared unauthorized and restricted by the Boy Scouts of America: Pointing any type of firearm (including paintball, dye, or lasers) at any individual is unacceptable. However, law enforcement departments and agencies using firearms in standard officer/agent training may use their training agenda when accompanied with appropriate safety equipment in the Law Enforcement Venturing program." Now I know that many troops arrange laser tag events. Has any authority in the BSA made a call as to the "appropriateness" of organized (commercial) laser tag events for troops?

At the area 2 (Central Region) Commissioners College this past weekend one Scouter made the comment that the BSA promotes the National Jamboree really well but not the World Jamboree. Maybe the American "we are the center of the world" thought process coming through?

As a fellow sinister person, I loved the "left-handed shirt" comment!

"The Aims and Methods of Scouting effect all program areas, including Venturing." DHII, Yes both Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts and Venturing have aims and methods but the methods differ from each other. As I stated, Uniform is a method of Boy Scouts and is NOT a method for Venturing. Boy Scout Methods Ideals Patrol Method Outdoors Advancement Adult Association Personal Growth Leadership Development Uniform Venturing Methods Adult Association Leadership Recognition Ideals Group Activities High Adventure Teaching Others Some are the same (adult association), some are very similar (ideals) buthtey are NOT the same.(This message has been edited by acco40)