acco40

I'd amend BW's post to include that a unit leader SHOULD not be a unit commissioner. Also, if a unit commissioner, it should be your primary position. The reason I say this is because I know many unit commissioners who are Scoutmasters and Cubmasters. From Test Your Commission Knowledge The greatest hazard to effectiveness of a commissioner is: a. Taking on non-commissioner related Scouting positions. b. Drinking too much coffee at commissioner meetings. c. Giving top priority to a troop that lost its Scoutmaster. d. Failing to earn the Arrowhead Award. (Answer is obviously a.)

One of the methods of Scouting is adult association. I am baffled at the number of Scouters and parents who want to cirucumvent the policy of having a Scout contact a MB counselor. It is NOT that difficult of a task. Heck, my neighbor's five year old has been taught proper phone etiquette (something lacking in most adults I'm afraid) and he has no problem calling adults. Ten to 17 year olds should not be intimidated about calling an adult who has given permission to have youth call him already for goodness sakes.

As Scoutmaster, I continually address issues related to God, Gays and Girls with the boys. (Just kidding folks! Our theme last month was citizenship. While discussing Government in a generic sense tried to show the Scouts that everything was not so black and white (as many of the parents and talk radio hosts seem to think.) I asked if individuals should have the freedom to "do what they want." Almost in unison, the boys agreed whole heartedly. Okay, now what if your neighbor has two unsighlty cars up on blocks in his front yard and works on them a couple of hours a day. Should he be allowed to do this? Now the responses were split more like 50-50. I wasn't really trying to find and answer, there obviously isn't correct answer, but tried to get them thinking about individual rights versus the rights of a community. In general I stay far far away from any current hot-button issues. Most of the boys just duplicate their parents political position anyway at the ages of 11 - 15.

"The counselor can only test on the requirements of the badge as described in the merit badge book, nothing more and nothing less." Actually, the MB counselor can test the Scout on anything under the sun and I often do ask the Scout many questions about topics over and above the MB requirements. However, one thing a MB may not do is make successful completion of the MB hindge on the responses to these questions. One should not ask these questions in a manner to show-off, ridicule or make the Scout uncomfortable in any way but sometimes the questions can spark an even deeper interest in the subject matter from the Scout.

There are excellent programs for spouses and for boys and girls of all ages. Yes, they will keep them busy!

Yes you may. I'm going from memory so I may be off somewhat: Course (Strictly for SMs) about $345 Spouse Program: $250 Son #1 Program $200 Son #2 Program $200 Daughter $200 Transportation (airfare): ???? Bus fare or rental car: ????

Come on people! I explain to the parents of new Scouts what the aims of Scoutings are. I tell them (half joking, half serious) that knots, knives, cooking and camping is all a ruse to teach character, citizenship and mental and physical fitness. Parents and I think many Scouters fall into the trap of trying to explain to much to our youth. Teaching them leadership skills can be done without explaining to them "that I am now teaching you leadership skills." After a long 12 mile hike last fall the boys were starting to drag and their spirits started to sink. One of the ASMs "challenged" one of the boys to race him to the next way point (about 150 yds). The interest of the boys really perked up, they all ran as fast as they could and at the end their spirits were lifted and morale was sky high. No need to explain to them that "hey, I am now going to show you a leadership trick and by the way increase your physical fitness in the process." The boys don't join Scouting to become better citizens. They become better citizens because they joined Scouting. That is a BIG difference. One may possibly begin to share these revelations with the older JASMs and or 18-21 ASMs but I see no real benefit to share it with the majority with the boys. (No real reason to hide it from them either by the way.)

Yes I read the article and with great interest because I just received approval to take the class the day after the magazine arrived! No real surprises to me in the article. SM Ron, one does not just sign up for the course. One needs to be recommended to take the course by your professional team. You may request that they give you a recommendation to take the class (it may put them on the spot however). Keep the flame burning! From the article: Only adults registered as unit Scoutmasters should attend this conference. Participants must have local council approval. For more information, contact your local Scout council service center or the Philmont Training Center, Cimarron, NM 87714, phone (505) 376-2281, fax (505) 376-2629, e-mail trainingcenter@philmontscoutranch.org. P.S. The article is available on-line too! http://scoutingmagazine.org/ Click on current issue (March-April 2004) Click on Strictly for Scoutmasters I'm signed up to attend the August 15-21 course. If anyone else is attending, let me know.(This message has been edited by acco40)

The two most abused drugs in the USA and the world are alcohol and tobacco. COPD many times is the result of tobacco abuse. For my boys, I had them watch the Simpson's episode where Homer crosses a tomato with a tobacco plant producing an addictive fruit/vegatable. It had a profound effect on them! (Yes, I'm kidding.)

DARE has been shown to be an excellent program for improving police force / citizen interfaces and a great pr tool. However, as a program to reduce illegal drug use it is a miserable failure. IMO, a wonderful program would be to visit a hospital ward for COPD patients and discussing what they witness with their parents or visit ER and witness those involved in drunk driving and or DUI accidents(This message has been edited by acco40)

The Committee's primary responsibility is to support the Scoutmaster and the Scouting program. If the committee feels that the Scoutmaster does not follow the Scouting program it has a problem. I would bring the COR and CO into play if dealing with the SM does not work. The COR/CO would then decide if a new SM is needed or not. THe COR/CO may decide that the committee needs to support the SM! Good luck.

Another option for a youth voter is to "abstain." This is different than just not voting. For instance, if one of your four boys presents wants to abstain, only three ballots are used, two votes still gets you chosen as a candidate. Now I've seen the opposite problem happen recently. I helped my son monitor another troop's OA election recently. The troop was fairly large and 33 boys were present to vote that evening. One youth was at his second meeting (newbie) so he decided to abstain from voting. Therefore, 16 votes got one elected (assuming SM approval). Now the problem was that they had about 13 boys eligible. They gave out blank slips of paper for the boys to write out the names. Now almost all of the boys wrote down 4 - 6 names. None of the boys had the patience to write down more than that. So only one boy got enough votes although the SM told me that in his estimation most were very deserving. A boy was assigned to deliver pre-made ballots to the meeting but he did not show up. Live and learn.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Is there supposed to be? Yes. Is there? Not really in my district. They claim that because of the volume, no news is good news. They only contact the rejected folks. I'd prefer a more positive approach myself. As a SM, I get a booklet once a year containing those who are approved and have agreed to councel on a district level but those who apply for "troop only" do not get positive feedback (only negative).

To quote from no less an authority than the advertisers for Grey Poupon, "But of course."

Terry, May I suggest a "warning" be given out and if the poster violates the relevancy and non-sensical limits, the supreme judge (you) issue a "verbosity fine" and place that poster to a "25 words or less" fine. When herding cats, act like a big dog!

Up where I live we have a "Maize and Blue" banquet. The Spartan fans don't like it! Seriously, we try to match the Cub Scout colors (Wolf scheme) and call it blue and gold. No real metallic like gold.

Our troop has voted on black (custom made) neckerchiefs that we have embroidered with the BSA logo on back (we needed a written statement for the person that does our embroidering that we were not infringing on a copyrighted symbol and had permission to use it!) and it has our troop number and city (gold lettering) on back too. The black background makes the gold BSA logo show up really nice. Besides, Black & Gold were my high school and college colors! (Hey, the color scheme was picked before my family was involved with the troop.) Do all wear it? They should but we usually get 90% compliance and then it slowly drifts to about 50% and then with gentle reminders is creeps back up to 90% and then cycles through again. How do we wear it? I told the boys "how" was not as important as having all of us wear it in a uniform fashion. On my own when representing our troop as B&Gs, district events, etc. I wear mine over the collar (collar rolled under) but the troop opted to wear the the neckerchief (moms, please don't call them scrarfs, or scarves?) under the collar. About half (skinny ones) button their top button, half leave it open on top. As for "requirements", most know that a uniform is not required for the BSA but it is one of the methods. Therefore, I would not say we require it for anything but our troop desires it for all troop meetings, COHs, traveling on outings, etc. During the summer months, the boys sometimes choose (and seek my approval) to wear an activity uniform to troop meetings. I usually give it my blessing after their patrol can sucessfully complete a uniform inspection. I've worn my McLaren(?) tartan neckerchief once or twice and most have no clue what it symbolizes. Same for cream colored WB neckerchief.(This message has been edited by acco40)

From thence, just take the definition of truth and say Truth is the faithful representation of truth. Yikes! Sounds like my young ones when they use a word I don't know. Their explanation is thus, jafo;agh hvn, you know, it means jafo;agh hvn! Okay, now I understand.

Politics, politics. For those who did not live during those devisive years of Vietnam, don't try and judge the actions of 40 - 50 years ago by todays standards. The Vietnam "experience" and how it was portrayed in the media is vastly different that what occured during WWII. First, except for news reports, very little was written and filmed about Vietnam until quite a bit afterwards. Yes, John Wayne starred in The Green Berets, but that was one of the few popular movies made about Nam until much later. It was a conflict that many felt the USA "lost." It was not embraced by popular culture until many years later. At first, the veterans were thought of as baby killers, deranged, and battle scarred who could not return stateside and lead a meaningful life. The Bruce Dern/Jane Fonda movie, Coming Home (78) and the Streep/De Niro movie The Deerhunter (78) amplified that stereotype. But notice that those movies were made many years after our countries involvement in the conflict. Now advance a few years and the memory of the conflict fades. We have the Iranian hostage crisis, oil embargos, the might of the US is questioned. How is the vet now portrayed? As a hero! Look at Rambo. He made the transisiton in popular culture from a vet who was just "nuts" as in the movies previously mentioned to one who had honor and strength. Magnum PI, Simon and Simon, etc., the vet is now glorified as a brave, macho guy. It acts as a salve to our psyche. Now many, many years later the upcoming election looks like it will pit two individuals who come from amazingly similar backgrounds. However, look at how the attitude of the student population at Yale changed in just two years (difference between Bush and Kerry)! The view of the war changed dramatically on campus. Please, lets not return to those devisive years that tore our country apart.

Am I the only one to find the following humorous? I don't want to rehash the gay debate but I had to chuckle when I read this. I thought Mr. Frank's response was very apropros. Congressman Barney Frank today released a copy of the letter he had sent to Roy Williams, Chief Scout Executive of the Boy Scouts of America, expressing his surprise that the organization had asked him to send them a letter of endorsement. Frank noted that the Boy Scouts have characterized gay men as unfit to associate with, and declined to engage in an act of hypocrisy by signing the letters. The letter from Mr. Williams and the response from Congressman Frank are below. January 27, 2004 Mr. Roy L. Williams Chief Scout Executive Boy Scouts of America 1325 West Walnut Hill Lane Irving, Texas 75038 Dear Mr. Williams, I was very surprised to receive from you a prepared text that you wish me to sign, expressing my support for the Boy Scouts of America. Where there is much about what the Boy Scouts do that I admire and I am a former Scout myself, I was under the impression that you considered people like myself to be unworthy of association with the Boy Scouts. I am a gay man, which according to your policy as I read it in various court decision means that I am neither "morally straight" nor "clean." Why do you want a person you so characterize to be signing a tribute to you? So I will not be agreeing to any of the three drafts you sent me, because it seems to me hypocritical of you to ask me to sign it, and even more hypocritical for me to do so. BARNEY FRANK BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA National Office 1325 West Walnut Hill Lane P.O. Box 152079, Irving, Texas 75015-2079 97'2-580-2000 January 9, 2004 The Honorable Barney Frank United States House of Representatives 2252 Rayburn House Office Building Washington, DC 20515 Dear Representative Frank, For 94 years, the Boy Scouts of America has been preparing young people to make better choices over their lifetimes. Through the efforts of more than 1.3 million volunteers, Scouting teaches its 3 million youth members important lessons about leadership, character, and service. In 2004, we will build on this legacy of service by launching a national service initiative called Good Turn for America. This national call to service is a collaborative effort of some of the most respected service organizations in the nation, including Habitat for Humanity, the American Red Cross, and The Salvation Army. U.S. Surgeon General Richard Carmona has agreed to serve as our honorary national chairman. We would be honored if you would lend your support to this important effort. Together, we will continue to positively influence the lives of young people throughout the nation. I have included a limited edition Good Turn for America coin as a token of my appreciation, as well as a brochure that provides more information on the initiative and sample letters of support for your reference. Thank you for your consideration. I look forward to hearing from you. If you have any questions regarding Good Turn for America, please contact Mr. Willie Des, group director for Development/Strategic Initiatives, at 972-580-2102. Sincerely, ROY WILLIAMS Chief Scout Executive (date) Roy L. Williams Chief Scout Executive Boy Scouts of America 1325 West Walnut Hill Lane P.O. Box 152079 Irving, Texas 75015-2079 Dear Mr. Williams: On behalf of the [ district] I commend the Boy Scouts of America for its efforts to promote and build a culture of service across our nation. More than ever before, our country needs the support of organizations like the Boy Scouts of America to help build stronger families, neighborhoods, and communities. I am pleased to support Good Turn for America, and I look forward to another century of service from the Boy Scouts of America. Best wishes in your continued efforts on behalf of America's youth. Sincerely yours, (name) (title) (date) Roy L. Williams Chief Scout Executive Boy Scouts of America 1325 West Walnut Hill Lane P.O. Box 152079 Irving, Texas 75015-2079 Dear Mr. Williams It is my great pleasure to support the Boy Scouts of America and the Good Turn for America initiative. We in the [district] share your dedication to service and young people. We look forward to many more efforts in support of Good Turn for America. Congratulations on the excellent work you are doing and your proud history of service to our great country. Sincerely yours, (name) (title) (date) Roy L. Williams Chief Scout Executive Boy Scouts of America 1325 West Walnut Hill Lane P.O. Box 152079 Irving, Texas 75015-2079 Dear Mr. Williams: The [district] congratulates the Boy Scouts of America on its long history of service, and proudly supports the Good Turn for America initiative. The vital lessons of leadership and service young people learn in the Scouting program prepare them to make significant contributions in all aspects of the life of the nation. I am honored to be a part of that effort through Good Turn for America. I encourage and commend the Boy Scouts of America for their efforts on behalf of our communities. Sincerely yours, (name) (title) #####

Is anyone other than myself having great technical difficulty with this forum? I know a few days ago they were changing/upgrading servers but I can't connect about 80% o the time.

"Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo." - H. G. Wells (1866-1946) "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here; this is a war room.!" - George C. Scott in Dr. Strangelove "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955) "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei (For George Bush and certain individuals in Texas) "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato (427-347 B.C.) (For some posters on this forum) "Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go." - Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) (For Rooster) "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire (1694-1778) If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses. - Lenny Bruce (For Fat Old Guy) "Facts are the enemy of truth." - Don Quixote - "Man of La Mancha" (For Adrianvs) "You can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth without it." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton (1874-1936) (for NJ) "I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure -- that is all that agnosticism means." - Clarence Darrow, Scopes trial, 1925. and finally a few for me: "Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled on behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy." - Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914) "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire (1694-1778)

One of the biggest benefits I get from training is NOT the traiing proper, but the bonds I make from the fellow students and staffers. We share ideas and generally network as needed. Yes, some go to training just to "punch a ticket" but many go because of the comraderie and fellowship and the resultant learning experience such relationships foster.

PLs are elected positions too (albeit not troop wide but patrol wide). Although unorthodox, many troops elects ASPLs and PLs with the intention of having them "takeover" next. Not endorsed by the BSA (IMO a SPL should choose his assistant(s)) but it does make the ASPL pay closer attention if he knows what is in store in the future!

Arrowpoints may be worn (blue or tan shirt) if the Webelos diamond rank badge is worn. They may not be worn with the oval Webelos rank badge. Let's look at the issue from a practicality standpoint. The "diamond" can accomodate four badges or less. The issuing of a diamond rank badge is a recent development. In the recent past "tiger strips" were awarded, not a diamond shaped rank badge. Therefore, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear & Webelos made up the diamond quartet of badges. When the Tiger diamond badge first became available (and the Tigers were more main streamed into the Pack) there then no room for Tiger, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear and Webelos badges (diamond limited to four). So, for a while, Webelos, who earned the Tiger strip as a Tiger but still in Cub Scouts as Wolf, Bear or Webelos when the Tiger diamond badge was offered had the option of going with the Webelos Oval or Webelos diamond badge. Not sure of exact dates but when the first class of Tigers who earned the Tiger diamond badge come (came?) around to the Webelos rank the option of Oval or Diamond for Webelos went away. The Oval was required and for the tan shirt. Now for opinion. The BSA loses many youth in the transition from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts. In 1982 Tiger Cubs started as a 7 year-old or second grade program. Wolf was the 8 year-old or third grade program, Bear was the 9 year-old or fourth grade program, and Webelos was the 10 year-old or fifth grade program. Starting in 1986 ages for the various programs were lowered and the two year Webelos program was introduced. The Tiger Cub program started for first-grade boys, Wolf was a second-grade and third-grade program. In 1987 Bear was a third grade and fourth grade program. Wolf became a second grade only program. In 1988 the new fourth grade Webelos program started and the old Webelos program was used for fifth graders. In 1989 the first second-year Webelos dens were formed and were for fifth graders. With the required tan shirts and Oval rank badge, Webelos is slipping into "Junior Boy Scouts." I think it is a mistake but an attempt by the BSA to keep membership.(This message has been edited by acco40)