CynicalScouter

As of this morning, there are by my estimate 850 Methodist Churches and organizations that have filed claims. To put that in perspective, since October 21 there have been ~900 claims filed. 850/900 were Methodist churches or collections of churches. There are also 6 different Lutheran churches (at least). Let's see what happens by next Friday.

Putting aside the marketing for a second because that's a separate issue. In the context of an ongoing legal proceeding, BSA's lawyers are not going to recommend Mosby sends a letter out to all COs from the last 50-60 year saying "please, come file a claim against us." The lawyers are going to give their best legal advice. As for your plan, sure. Let's have at it. The Chapter 11 will quickly get out of control as COs around the country panic and toss existing units. My current unit is 12-13 years old. I suspect if our CO got a letter from BSA saying "Come sue us for things we may have done" they'd toss us to save themselves. Forget that these claims are (for the most part) predating our existence. And the 90+ year unit in my town? The only one old enough to have had a claim? Not sure they'd survive. The moral thing is to not start a mass panic when there's no need for it.

They would be legally foolish and their attorneys would tell them in no uncertain circumstances not to. And what would/should the message be? "You better come file a claim against us (BSA National) ASAP."? No lawyer in their right mind will ever VOLUNTARILY allow their client to, in effect, invite people over to feast on the client's assets. If the court ORDERS BSA to notify potential claimants (such as the TV and other ads), sure. But the lawyers would be out of their minds to recommend from a legal standpoint that BSA invite more litigation and claims. Yes, and the mechanism for protection is "Sue BSA/file a claim against BSA"?

Good question. Real good question. Wish we had answers. The folks in those COs could be blindsided when they discover that the scout unit they've had for 40 years (or maybe that died out 40 years ago?) could cost them everything. IF (giant if) IF I had to guess, the COs would claim they were never notified/failed to have sufficient notice to file a claim and therefore they will reopen the window for COs. That pushes this into late 2020 (ha, ha) or 2021.

This is about the COs adding themselves, not the COs being forced in (yet). And schools are in a different legal position and are "insured" by the locality/state. If the plaintiffs don't get the $1.5 billion (I am now seeing reports of $3 billion on the table) then after they tear National and its insurance companies apart, then Council and its Insurance companies apart, they'll come for the COs next.

True, my bad.

Which is based on a notice from Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) https://baltimorepresbytery.org/wp-content/uploads/QAforBoyScoutsBankruptcy.pdf Methodists. Presbyterians. I would imagine that many Catholic Dioceses/Parishes will file next. That would leave LDS and the Lutherans in terms of major religious organizations. After that, VFW? The CO claimants alone could go into the thousands.

For you, yes. For a (vocal) minority, the inclusion of a post that included a photo of Amy Coney Barrett was looked upon as some kind of endorsement or statement of support.

Since that post on 10/27, another 35 Methodist Churches have filed.

Just as a point: Someone in a thread recently said BSA needed to "stay out of politics". I noted that these days EVERYTHING is political. Wearing a mask? Political statement. Listing the 5 female SCOTUS justices? Political statement. There's simply no way to avoid making a "political" statement.

First, the follow-up post made it clear: it was about optics. Second, I don't see how GSUSA putting her photo up as part of a "women on the Supreme Court" tweet forces her to recuse (or Sotomayor or Kagan for that matter). Justices are allowed to give presentations and even accept awards (but not money) from parties that appear before them. That does not create a requirement to recuse.

I don't think the concern is that GS posted the 5 justices. I think the concern is that the GS took down the post as a result of "woke" pressure because one of the justices was Amy Coney Barrett.

I will tell you something I've seen put to good use in COVID times: parents as Unit Reserve Scouters. During a Zoom session you need to have 2 registered adult leaders. So, the ASM and who else? We got parents who do not want to commit or get scared at the prospect of being an ASM ("I know nothing about the woods. Too busy for IOLS or anything.") and we do not have a giant committee. My troop has recruited 3 Unit Reserve Scouters, got them YPT compliant and they now sit and listen and watch what their scouts do. PLUS it helps the burn outs. We had a parent who was a 4 year den leader in a pack. Crossed over with the son and said "Done. Done, done, done done. DONE!" and I can respect that. But we just got him to redo his YPT and made it clear we need him around for flexibility reasons. He's ok with being the second warm body for purposes of two-deep leadership. Now, in a year or so, when he's had some distance? Totally see him as a committee member.

My first experience: my son joined at Webelos First Year. The den leader fell ill. The Cubmaster walk up, saw I had sat in on every meeting and simply asked if I was interested and explained the situation. Of course I'll help. I think drafting (volun-told) someone into a lesser position is fine. Den Leader. Committee (which I got volun-told I was joining when we crossed over to Troop; I am NOT ASM material and I know it), etc. But SM/CM? No way, that person has got to WANT to be there. That's what struck me so often is that the SM/CM is just dumped/shoved/threatened.

I think the point is that as horrible as the SM (who was serving as the MBC for the merit badge) has treated the scout that at this point, that if the unit really is folding and the SM really is simply refusing to work with the scout that no additional force will help. No one is going to physically take this person's hand and make them sign the card. If the situation is as screwed up as you say, and the scout really did do all the work, then the next MBC in the next unit you go to will likely be willing to accept and sign off on the prior work (which they are allowed to under Guide to Advancement).

Retirement/pension

Once upon a time (March?) I think there was some notion that this would be limited to National and the Councils. Now, it has become clear that the plaintiffs are not going to stop with National and the Councils, the COs would be, as you imply, utter morons NOT to at least put in the claim (they all either list a price of $0 or simply leave it blank) in order to preserve their rights.

DOH! Fixed, I stripped ALL links from EVERYTHING.

Some other new, interesting claimants against BSA. Lots of of National and Council Executives filing claims. "National Council Restoration Plan Claim" C443 10/21/2020 John H. Mosby C434 10/20/2020 Michael B Surbaugh C435 10/20/2020 Jason Stein C424 10/18/2020 Randall Kopsa C422 10/17/2020 Raymond E Gallison Jr C423 10/17/2020 Kohl, Dennis J C418 10/15/2020 John M. Primrose C17 10/13/2020 Joseph S. Coco C400 10/13/2020 Joseph S Coco C192 10/12/2020 Holmes, Ronald W C191 10/08/2020 Cabeza, John C391 10/08/2020 Gary Butler C396 10/07/2020 Estate of Richard J Mathews C387 10/06/2020 Foster Selman, Jr C16 10/05/2020 John E Marden Jr C383 10/05/2020 David L Campbell C395 10/05/2020 Blackwell, Raymond L C397 10/05/2020 Moore, Paul R

Whose is next? The Lutherans? The Catholics? Claim No Claim Date Filed Creditor C438 10/21/2020 Alamo Heights United Methodist Church C442 10/21/2020 First United Methodist Church of Del Rio C439 10/21/2020 Ingleside United Methodist Church C440 10/21/2020 Oxford United Methodist Church of San Antonio Texas C441 10/21/2020 St Luke United Methodist Church Austin C437 10/21/2020 St Mark United Methodist Church C451 10/22/2020 Bartlett United Methodist Church, Inc. C457 10/22/2020 Belle Meade United Methodist Church C466 10/22/2020 Bethany United Methodist Church of Austin C455 10/22/2020 Bethel United Methodist Church Chewsville C444 10/22/2020 First United Methodist Church C471 10/22/2020 First United Methodist Church C469 10/22/2020 First United Methodist Church - Laredo C449 10/22/2020 First United Methodist Church Brownsville C458 10/22/2020 First United Methodist Church Mission, Texas Inc. C464 10/22/2020 First United Methodist Church Murfreesboro C461 10/22/2020 Gary Memorial United Methodist Church C462 10/22/2020 Glen Mar UMC C474 10/22/2020 Grace United Methodist Church Houghton MI C465 10/22/2020 Grandville United Methodist Church C472 10/22/2020 Grosse Pointe United Methodist Church C446 10/22/2020 Highland United Methodist Church C454 10/22/2020 Kerrville First United Methodist Church C459 10/22/2020 Millers United Methodist Church C452 10/22/2020 Mt Carmel United Methodist Church C473 10/22/2020 Mt. Pleasant First United Methodist Church C447 10/22/2020 Saint John's United Methodist Church C445 10/22/2020 Schertz United Methodist Church C450 10/22/2020 St. Andrew's United Methodist Church C467 10/22/2020 The Summit Church C453 10/22/2020 United Methodist Church of Brady C468 10/22/2020 Walled Lake UMC C460 10/22/2020 Wesley Grove United Methodist Church C549 10/23/2020 Alamo United Methodist Church C546 10/23/2020 Arapaho United Methodist Church C520 10/23/2020 Ardsley United Methodist Church C25 10/23/2020 Bethany United Methodist Church (187831) C531 10/23/2020 Bethany United Methodist Church (187831) C505 10/23/2020 Blanchard-Pineriver United Methodist Church C482 10/23/2020 Blanche UMC C548 10/23/2020 Bloomfield United Methodist Church C512 10/23/2020 Clinton Avenue United Methodist Church C541 10/23/2020 Derby United Methodist Church C542 10/23/2020 Dixboro United Methodist Church C527 10/23/2020 Emmanuel United Methodist Church C501 10/23/2020 Epworth United Methodist Church Gaithersburg C498 10/23/2020 First Methodist Church Colleyville Texas C540 10/23/2020 First United Methodist Church of Carrollton C507 10/23/2020 First United Methodist Church of Shelton C489 10/23/2020 First United Methodist Church, Victoria C487 10/23/2020 Flat Rock First United Methodist Church C518 10/23/2020 Gashland United Methodist Churdch C547 10/23/2020 Glen Burnie United Methodist Church C475 10/23/2020 Goodrich United Methodist Church C481 10/23/2020 Grace United Methodist Church C496 10/23/2020 Grace United Methodist Church C508 10/23/2020 Grace United Methodist Church C552 10/23/2020 Grace United Methodist Church C24 10/23/2020 Holiday Park United Methodist Church (98585) C529 10/23/2020 Holiday Park United Methodist Church (98585) C513 10/23/2020 Homestead Park United Methodist Church C20 10/23/2020 Homestead Park United Methodist Church (103240) C517 10/23/2020 Hudson First United Methodist Church C530 10/23/2020 Katonah United Methodist Church C499 10/23/2020 Kensington United Methodist Church C476 10/23/2020 Lone Oak United Methodist Church C478 10/23/2020 Marysville United Methodist Church C484 10/23/2020 Michelson Memorial United Methodist Church C510 10/23/2020 New Life United Methodist Church C509 10/23/2020 New Milford United Methodist Churcg C495 10/23/2020 New World UMC Arlington Texas C477 10/23/2020 New York Annual Conference of the C500 10/23/2020 Newington United Methodist Church C514 10/23/2020 Nolensville First United Methodist Church C488 10/23/2020 Oscoda United Methodist Church C539 10/23/2020 Pearl Street United Methodist Church C480 10/23/2020 Petoskey United Methodist Church C551 10/23/2020 Pleasant Street United Methodist Church C492 10/23/2020 Port Huron First United Methodist Church C493 10/23/2020 Poughkeepsie United Methodist Church C535 10/23/2020 Redeemer United Methodist Church C511 10/23/2020 Redford Aldersgate UMC C28 10/23/2020 Ringgold United Methodist Church (85845) C536 10/23/2020 Ringgold United Methodist Church (85845) C21 10/23/2020 Roxbury St Paul United Methodist Church (187944) C522 10/23/2020 Roxbury St Paul United Methodist Church (187944) C503 10/23/2020 Saint James UMC of Kingston C490 10/23/2020 Saint Pauls United Methodist Church C23 10/23/2020 Salem United Methodist Church (96644) C528 10/23/2020 Salem United Methodist Church (96644) C526 10/23/2020 Severna Park United Methodist Church C502 10/23/2020 Shepherd United Methodist Church C485 10/23/2020 Simpson United Methodist Church C22 10/23/2020 South Greensburg United Methodist Church (98643) C525 10/23/2020 South Greensburg United Methodist Church (98643) C491 10/23/2020 St. John's United Methodist Church C506 10/23/2020 St. Paul United Methodist Church C27 10/23/2020 Summit Chapel United Methodist Church (97502) C534 10/23/2020 Summit Chapel United Methodist Church (97502) C524 10/23/2020 The First United Methodist Church of Lowell C543 10/23/2020 The United Methodist Church of Peekskill C516 10/23/2020 Trinity Boscobel United Methodist Church C504 10/23/2020 Trinity United Methodist Church C29 10/23/2020 Trinity United Methodist Church (188061) C537 10/23/2020 Trinity United Methodist Church (188061) C538 10/23/2020 Trinity United Methodist Church (188061) C26 10/23/2020 Unionville United Methodist Church (96861) C532 10/23/2020 Unionville United Methodist Church (96861) C523 10/23/2020 United Churches of Durham C533 10/23/2020 United Methodist Church at Shrub Oak C519 10/23/2020 United Methodist Church of Babylon C515 10/23/2020 United Methodist Church of Bay Shore C544 10/23/2020 United Methodist Church of Sea Cliff C497 10/23/2020 United Methodist Church of Watertown C494 10/23/2020 West Hartford United Methodist Church C486 10/23/2020 Westwood United Methodist Church C550 10/23/2020 Wethersfield United Methodist Church C555 10/24/2020 First United Methodist Church, Ansonia, CT C554 10/24/2020 Fishkill United Methodist Church C556 10/24/2020 Fishkill United Methodist Church C559 10/24/2020 Grace United Methodist Church C553 10/24/2020 Iglesia Evangelica Metodista Unida de Coop City C560 10/24/2020 Montgomery United Methodist Church C561 10/24/2020 Mt Zion United Methodist Church - Highland, Md C557 10/24/2020 Naugatuck United Methodist Church C558 10/24/2020 Trinity United Methodist Parish C39 10/26/2020 Armagh United Methodist Church (97227) C40 10/26/2020 Baden United Methodist Church (95263) C46 10/26/2020 Bakerstown United Methodist Church (95285) C36 10/26/2020 Calvary United Methodist Church (100543) C52 10/26/2020 Christ United Methodist Church (89227) C47 10/26/2020 Fells United Methodist Church (99660) C48 10/26/2020 First United Methodist Church (103546) C53 10/26/2020 First United Methodist Church (103980) C51 10/26/2020 First United Methodist Church (180908) C44 10/26/2020 First United Methodist Church (85787) C34 10/26/2020 First United Methodist Church (89901) C30 10/26/2020 Glenwood United Methodist Church (60674) C42 10/26/2020 Greenstone United Methodist Church (101148) C49 10/26/2020 Haven Heights United Methodist Church (Pitt) C41 10/26/2020 Lakeside United Methodist Church (85388) C43 10/26/2020 Lakewood United Methodist Church (89307) C54 10/26/2020 Latrobe United Methodist Church (98120) C33 10/26/2020 Monroeville United Methodist Church (98324) C38 10/26/2020 Mount Lebanon United Methodist Church (101308) C45 10/26/2020 Nixon United Methodist Church (95503) C50 10/26/2020 Otterbein United Methodist Church (189475) C31 10/26/2020 Stone United Methodist Church (89626) C35 10/26/2020 Stone United Methodist Church (89626) C37 10/26/2020 Trinity United Methodist Church (100554) C32 10/26/2020 W. PA Annual Conference of the C55 10/26/2020 West View United Methodist Church (102245)

This would explain why the Florida Methodist Churches came in recently. Remember how I previously said that this does NOT end with BSA liquidated because the Congressional Charter will save the shell? Yeah, now more than ever I believe that. The COs will throw national and especially the Councils under any and all available buses. National and the Councils are going to lose every tangible asset.

Ok, now that's even more curious. Why would you have conflict of interest? Between your unit and your CO/Church?

Except that change was, for many, two iterations and 20 years of Woodbadge ago. In my district, all the WB people were 2010 (maybe 2007) and forward. Only 1 person was I think pre-2000. When people around here talk about "old" Woodbadge, they mean prior to the 2019/2020 re-write. Not what happened in 2000.

Yes, but I believe you had mentioned in a prior filing the proposed plan requires 90% of claimants to agree. That's the problem. You only need 10% + 1 to dig in their heels.

Which works out to be $63,000 per victim, before attorneys (so, cut that down to $40,000). As for the lawyer friend who said sue everyone, that is right. If I am an attorney looking out for my client's interests, I am going to find out anyone who may have liability for the bad acts. That's not "ambulance chasing", that's good lawyering.